which brand of soil from lowes or depot

im4satori

Well-Known Member
what is ACT?

what about guano

I notice theres different types

bat with 2 profiles and sea bird

is there any benefit to adding guano to the soil amendment to diversify or is just an unnecessary addition leaving the manure and EWC as better choices? provided it meats the plant needs

also
using guano as a tea, would that be an organic method to boast P in late flower?

lastly
anybody using oyster shell? (ph adjuster)
I noticed its used in the ocean forest

is there any benefit to oyster shell over lime
or does the use of lime make oyster shell an unnecessary addition provided the lime provides the ph balancing required
 
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im4satori

Well-Known Member
fish bone
I wonder if this would be a good addition for a calcium source

the ocean forest is always low in calcium and magnesium, these signs of def always show up first

also
fish meal... I notice the ocean forest has fish emulsion listed..would that be similar to fish meal?
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
sorry i left that part out
14 cubic ft- SOIL(9- 1.5 cubic feet bags)
(Roots, Down to Earth- Pro Organics, any high quality local potting soil)
That's where those "missing' strains he used to have for a long time went! i know and its a shame i love tga i have grown agent orange, kaboom, space jill, i just got dr who and cheese quake. i wanted 9 lb hammer but as far as i can tell it gone.
Home grown Natural Wonders Mickey Kush has pheno's in the beans that hit 30% - You do have to grow them properly.
Their Quantum Kush - averages 30% - again, you have to grow them right....

I have some on the way.....
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
so ive been looking at this link hard

please let correct me if I have misunderstood

to make new soil
15 gallons total in a 30 gallon trash can

5 gallons peat moss (pro-mix)
2.5 gallons cow manure
2.5 gallons warm castings
5 gallons perlite
1.5 cups dry inorganic fertilizer
2 cups lime
8 cups rock dust
1 cup kelp meal
1/2 cup crab meal
1/2 cup alfa alfa meal
1/2 cup neem meal

let it cook 4 weeks min



to re-amend soil
21 gallons in 30 gallon trash can

16 gallons previously amended soil
2 gallons manure
2 gallons EWC
1 gallon perlite
1/2 cup dry organic fert
1/2 cup lime
2 cup rock dust
3/4 cup kelp meal
1/4 cup alf alfa meal
1/4 cup neem meal

let it cook for 4 weeks
These two mixes seem pretty reasonable and safe for plants. I might want some fish bone meal or bone meal and a bit of sulpomag(kmag). I would be fine with it. Note that promix has some perlite and lime so peat requires more of both. Fill a bucket with perlite and then fill with compost tea or water and let it sit a couple hours. Really helps wetting your peat. Adding NAPA 8822 floor dry stores some nute and water and even helps drainage and soak it first like perlite.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
so ive been looking at this link hard

please let correct me if I have misunderstood

to make new soil
15 gallons total in a 30 gallon trash can

5 gallons peat moss (pro-mix)
2.5 gallons cow manure
2.5 gallons warm castings
5 gallons perlite
1.5 cups dry inorganic fertilizer
2 cups lime
8 cups rock dust
1 cup kelp meal
1/2 cup crab meal
1/2 cup alfa alfa meal
1/2 cup neem meal

let it cook 4 weeks min



to re-amend soil
21 gallons in 30 gallon trash can

16 gallons previously amended soil
2 gallons manure
2 gallons EWC
1 gallon perlite
1/2 cup dry organic fert
1/2 cup lime
2 cup rock dust
3/4 cup kelp meal
1/4 cup alf alfa meal
1/4 cup neem meal

let it cook for 4 weeks
Nope! REAL rule of thumb! Equal amounts of Peat, EWC and coarse perlite.

The cow manure is something I like to add for the diverse Bio's available from it....In reality, all you'll need is about a gallon or 2-3 lbs. It's being used as an inoculant (it's just there to add the living bio's)....Don't "split it with the EWC". "Add it as it's own thing".

2 cups Kelp meal

3 cups of the dry fert......I would suggest you stick to a TOMATO fert to get better N to P ratio's...

I would skip the Neem meal. You won't need it. They tell you that it keeps the N from being lost by "nitrification". That only happens to Urea forms of N in any amount that would effect the actual N level.....SO then, read the fertilizer label and don't use one's that contain "Urea" in large percentages! (best to avoid it at all if you can).

Neem also has an anti-bacterial property.....I'm not a fan of that. I want my soil's living bio's to be free to work and grow at the best possible rate! If Neem inhibits any of my bio's...It's NOT for me! Even though many use it. I won't.....They are finding in studies that Neem is far more toxic to humans as was thought.....- skip it!

Alfalfa meal is wonderful stuff. It also adds bio's, has good long release N and good mineral content.....While she wants you to limit your nutritional amending to 3 cups total (6 for how your doing it - dbl amount) Your use of 1/2 cup of Alfalfa and 1/2 cup of Crab - will put you right at 6 cups of nutritional amendments....Good choices!

NOTE: Dolomite contains a lot of Mg, MORE then you will need! There is plenty available from other sources in this mix. It compacts the soil and limits air coming in to the roots...You might like splitting Liming agents by using 1/2 cup pulverized egg shell - 1/2 cup oyster shell powder per cubic ft. You would of course dbl that for your 15 gallons of soil. I don't use Dolo at all (cept for the FFOF quick fix)...It compacts soils. I'll use Oyster and pulverized eggshells.

Garden gypsum is a great source of CA and minerals! To replace Ca and half the mineral content....You could use 4 cups of Garden gypsum......I'm just supplying information here! --- I suggest, strongly, you follow the given directions and try the gypsum in a later soil.....Use the rock dust and the oyster shell or oyster shell/eggshell - skip the Dolo though!

ROCK DUST The kind of rock dust is important too. P comes from rock dust in slow release form. I see she says to re add 2 cups of rock dust for re-amending- I wouldn't - you'll only be upping the P value as rock dust (not soft rock phosphate) will last 3-4 years out doors before needing to be re-amended.....I do it at 1 year intervals for my indoor soils that are perpetually used...

Granite Dust is nice, very nice - My favorite

Soft rock Phosphate - some don't care for possible heavy metals it can contain.....If you know the source, or care about that...call the supplier and ask about heavy metal content. (I don't use it)

That answers that first question.

question;I noticed these aren't used in the above amendment example
how does the use of additives like

amino acids, fulvic acids, humic acid fall into play when amending

and how would the addition of these items change this example?
The amino's are in the Kelp meal!

Humic and Fulvic acid's.....Those too, are in the Kelp meal.

I still like to use a product from a company called BIOAG Called FUL-HUMIX. It is a powder you mix with water....I use that for the water I wet the soil mix with before cooking.

Any other Humic/Fulvic acid supplement on the market today,,,,is vastly inferior to BIOAG products!

what is ACT?

what about guano

I notice theres different types

bat with 2 profiles and sea bird

is there any benefit to adding guano to the soil amendment to diversify or is just an unnecessary addition leaving the manure and EWC as better choices? provided it meats the plant needs

also
using guano as a tea, would that be an organic method to boast P in late flower?

lastly
anybody using oyster shell? (ph adjuster)
I noticed its used in the ocean forest

is there any benefit to oyster shell over lime
or does the use of lime make oyster shell an unnecessary addition provided the lime provides the ph balancing required
It's AACT or Actively Aerated Compost Tea is mostly a simple bio tea made for growing vast amounts of living Bacteria and Fungal's to add to your soil.....

One use for AACT is to brew it and use it to water your soil mix down before cooking. I do that, and add some FUL-HUMIX (more on that later down the posting) to the brewed tea.
Once you start adding any kind of fert compound. It is NO LONGER considered a, AACT but it has now become a fertilizer tea!

You will not need to use a "fert" tea with your soil. For your early runs. lets just use the soil and you can learn more about supplementing organic later down the road.

You will not "need" to boost P later in bloom.....I'm more fond of K then P.....more shit for later down the road.

Oyster shell - refer to my previous comments on Dolo and oyster shell above..

fish bone
I wonder if this would be a good addition for a calcium source

the ocean forest is always low in calcium and magnesium, these signs of def always show up first

also
fish meal... I notice the ocean forest has fish emulsion listed..would that be similar to fish meal?
NO! Heaven's NO! You will flood the soil with faster release P......

Fish emulsion, is simply a liquid form of fish meal......

Follow the soil recipe and you have no need for that and any other nutrient use!

Well, there you go. Lots to digest....questions? ask away.
 
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Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
These two mixes seem pretty reasonable and safe for plants. I might want some fish bone meal or bone meal and a bit of sulpomag(kmag). I would be fine with it. Note that promix has some perlite and lime so peat requires more of both. Fill a bucket with perlite and then fill with compost tea or water and let it sit a couple hours. Really helps wetting your peat. Adding NAPA 8822 floor dry stores some nute and water and even helps drainage and soak it first like perlite.
Really? That much P? Nope, don't agree with adding any more P to a Tomato tone dry fert based soil, with 8 cups of rock dust!

Bone meal is a big no-no! BAD source possibilities and contamination.....Again, plenty of available long term P... A lot of it will just be hitting the plant come bloom,,,perfect timing.

More mag from solpomag? No, better to sup some K sulfate for the S as it's far better then any more Mg - there's already plenty available - don't you think? S gives better trich's and terps....I'd rather have that!

My 2 cents back....
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Where is the dolomite? Some in promix but I now use extremely fine limestone with some kmag but my mix is always 20%-50% used mix of the total mix. I use small containers for variety of plants and ease of moving so some teas and a top dress are needed.

What do you have against fish? First fertilizer I ever used as a child. Any other contamination concerns besides mad cow with bonemeal?
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
Really? That much P? Nope, don't agree with adding any more P to a Tomato tone dry fert based soil, with 8 cups of rock dust!

Bone meal is a big no-no! BAD source possibilities and contamination.....Again, plenty of available long term P... A lot of it will just be hitting the plant come bloom,,,perfect timing.

More mag from solpomag? No, better to sup some K sulfate for the S as it's far better then any more Mg - there's already plenty available - don't you think? S gives better trich's and terps....I'd rather have that!

My 2 cents back....
wow

doctor who, you caught the rock dust...thanks for taking the time to look at it closely!
the original formula didn't add rock dust to the second round of use (21 gallon soil amendment)
I actually noticed it wasnt used and wondered why... so I added it lol now I know

just to male sure I understand
your saying to use EWC 5 gallons plus 1 or 2 lbs of manure
not
2.5 gallons of each

gotcha on the lime,dolimite/oyster shell and eggs shell

I have plenty of potassium sulfate on hand
my N sources contain little to no ammonia
yara calcium nitrate
magnesium nitrate
yara potassium nitrate


if I water only water uising the ocean forest... calcium is the first def to appear, magnesium the second

the FF soil seems light on Ca from the bag so I thought to add a bit of calcium into the first transplant from 6" container to 3 gallon even in the new bags of soil
how would you recommend I do that without pushing the Ph out of range and how much....
(garden gypsum or oyster shell or crab shell)

same question regarding magnesium... up to know I just been tossing in magnesium sulfate

using the fox farm ocean forest 4 weeks from clone
ive really not needed to add much more than top dressing

1/4 to 1/2 tsp calcium nitrate
1/4 tsp magnesium sulfate

so my question direct

how would you recommend I amend a brand new back of un-used ocean forest
to add slow release calcium and magnesium
 
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Mohican

Well-Known Member
I picked up some bales of Sunshine #4 from Home Depot a couple of weeks ago. I usually hit up OC Farm Supply for the big bales of ProMix Bx.

I like liquid fish ferts for N and Kelp for other nutes. I feed my worms scraps daily and use the castings everywhere.

I didn't like the way Dr Earth grow medium became hydrophobic when it dried out. It was twice as bad as ProMix.

Alaska makes a dry veggie fert that is amazing. Looks like rabbit/hamster food. I have poured a layer an inch thick on top of gallon pot and the plant loved it. No burn.

Alaska® Vegetable & Tomato Dry Fertilizer
  • For organic gardening
  • Promotes bountiful, flavorful vegetables
  • Made with fish, kelp and other natural ingredients
  • Rich in calcium
  • Low odor
  • NPK 4-6-6


Cheers,
Mo
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
ive done most of my shopping for additives at
kelp4less.com

I have also witnessed a huge difference (better) between these dry kelp and amino type products vs the high dollar liquids on the shelf

I have even done some mad scientist testing on spraying as high as 8x recommended mix (NOT RECOMMENDED)on a plant or two that I planned to kull... the results are freakish almost like a straight up chemical plant growth regulator (PGR)
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
Crab Meal Fertilizer/Soil Amendment, What is it good for?
Posted February 14, 2013

Crab meal may not be the first thing you think of when looking for a fertilizer or soil amendments for your garden, but you may start to think a little deeper into the topic! Its benefits are huge! Besides the fact that crab meal is eco friendly, it's organic and loaded with nitrogen, phosphorous, calcium and magnesium. It is slow release which is healthier for plants and it also helps with nematode and fungus problems in the soil. Because it is also high in chitin it encourages soil microorganisms to discharge enzymes called chitinases, which break down the chitin that are a part of the parasitic nematode egg shell. Crab meal can be considered a bio-pesticide (preventing, destroying or repelling) for this reason. It can be worked into the soil or add it in the planting hole when transplanting. It's great for planting with tomato crops not only for the fertilizer benefits, but the calcium is great for helping prevent blossom end rot. Use 2 Tbsp per transplant hole and mix the existing soil or add 5- 10 lbs per 100 square feet. Crab meal is also a great activator to add to your compost. It really gets the microorganisms on the move and helps with the breakdown process for faster and more robust compost!
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
im just trying to figure out how to add organic slow release calcium without pushing the PH of the soil up since the FF soil is already in range

I notice many or most of the calcium options have an effect on PH
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
I picked up some bales of Sunshine #4 from Home Depot a couple of weeks ago. I usually hit up OC Farm Supply for the big bales of ProMix Bx.




Cheers,
Mo
how much was it and how big was the bale and where was it located at home depot? thanks
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Where is the dolomite? Some in promix but I now use extremely fine limestone with some kmag but my mix is always 20%-50% used mix of the total mix. I use small containers for variety of plants and ease of moving so some teas and a top dress are needed.

What do you have against fish? First fertilizer I ever used as a child. Any other contamination concerns besides mad cow with bonemeal?
I don't use Dolo.....oyster shell/eggshell/gypsum If he does that from scratch soil mix. he won't need the high Mg dolo...

I got nothing against fish use.....other then elevated mercury levels.
Animal bone meals are shown to contain rather elevated antibiotic levels...growth hormones... estrogen and other non natural contents. This includes feather meals....Blood meals etc.....
I feel the odds of getting any spongiform encephalopathy is rather close to none! It's the other things that bother me.

Look, organic and what YOU use is really fine with me!
I'm only showing cause and solutions to avoid....The choice is yours.....and, yeah, I'd still smoke your weed...I just choose to grow it differently.....Sometimes I feel inclined to slap folks with a soy patty.....Although I'm about to go into the kitchen and fix the veggies and taters for a nice onion and mushroom based pot roast....Herford beef....sorry Sunni..

:peace:
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
wow

doctor who, you caught the rock dust...thanks for taking the time to look at it closely!
the original formula didn't add rock dust to the second round of use (21 gallon soil amendment)
I actually noticed it wasnt used and wondered why... so I added it lol now I know

just to male sure I understand
your saying to use EWC 5 gallons plus 1 or 2 lbs of manure
not
2.5 gallons of each

gotcha on the lime,dolimite/oyster shell and eggs shell

I have plenty of potassium sulfate on hand
my N sources contain little to no ammonia
yara calcium nitrate
magnesium nitrate
yara potassium nitrate


if I water only water uising the ocean forest... calcium is the first def to appear, magnesium the second

the FF soil seems light on Ca from the bag so I thought to add a bit of calcium into the first transplant from 6" container to 3 gallon even in the new bags of soil
how would you recommend I do that without pushing the Ph out of range and how much....
(garden gypsum or oyster shell or crab shell)

same question regarding magnesium... up to know I just been tossing in magnesium sulfate

using the fox farm ocean forest 4 weeks from clone
ive really not needed to add much more than top dressing

1/4 to 1/2 tsp calcium nitrate
1/4 tsp magnesium sulfate

so my question direct

how would you recommend I amend a brand new back of un-used ocean forest
to add slow release calcium and magnesium
Gotta run till mourning - answers then..TTFN
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
i went back over it all and realized I hadn't doubled some of the items and some i had, so I fixed it up and this is what i have so far

to make new soil
15 gallons total in a 30 gallon trash can (2 cubic ft)

5 gallons peat moss
4 gallons warm cast
1 gallon manure
5 gallons perlite
3 cups organic fertilizer
4 cups kelp meal
8 cups granit rock dust
2 cup crab meal
2 cup alfa alfa meal
1 cup oyster shell flour
1 cup egg shell
let it cook 4 weeks min



to re-amend soil
20 gallons in 30 gallon trash can (a little over 2 cubic ft)

16 gallons previously amended soil
3 gallons EWC
1 gallon manure
2 gallon perlite
1/2 cup organic fert
2 cups kelp meal
1/2 cup crab meal
1/2 cup alf alfa meal
1/4 oyster shell flour
1/4 cup egg shell
let it cook for 4 weeks min
 

im4satori

Well-Known Member
is there anything different you would do? or any additional elements you would suggest?

check out the amounts of oyster flour and egg shells... is that enough to offset the elimination of the lime?

if I wanted to use garden gypsum, how would you recommend its use, do I just add it to the existing recipe or do I need to reduce some of the other amendments
 

SouthCross

Well-Known Member
You might want to check out a Harbor freight 1 1/4 cement mixer. Or the Kobalt 3.5 cubic foot job from Lowe's. It makes a world of difference mixing soil. Mixes professional.

The Lowe's brand cement mixer shows up at pawn shops a lot. Barely used. It's a fun tool to have.
 
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