Flushing

[Daveindiego]

Why the fuck do you believe them anyway?
Hell, half your problem is H&G!
Way to many bottles of un-need, watered down, crap! They have you overfeeding anyway!
They have you spending a shit ton of your hard earned dollars on mostly, things you don't need!

Even some lines I liked for a long time, have you using things you just don't need!

Any "root" bottle = Kelp extract
Any Vitamin = Kelp extract
Any Amino = Kelp extract
Living bio (Myco's) = AACT
"Booster" = Why isn't it in the bloom and be one bottle at the right ratio? You can use less or more of a single bottled nutrient.

A simple 2 part works.
Not in soil? A simple 3 part works.
Hell, there are powdered nutrients that are one and done! You just feed differing amounts at the right times.

Flushing is a myth!

It's been said here, in this thread. You can not "flush" nutrients from a plant! Basic plant biology...

Read this, and the link at the end if you want more.

I got asked about this in a PM by a member after seeing the disaster another thread became. He asked where to find books and papers on "flushing" and said he might try the "fade".

Here's my answer to him......I felt it needs to be seen,,,,,,again!

Your looking for post grad work. You would do better to search papers......The thing is, NOTHING in agriculture gets 'flushed" and that leads to little to no research in the area. You see, the thing is, the whole "idea" of "flushing is nonsense! Plants don't work that way! They do not take up nutrients or salts as most of you think of them! They do not "store" them in the sense you think of them! Not only that, but the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers! NO amount of "flushing" will "exchange" plant "stored" nutrition back "out" of the plant! Scientifically impossible by the way most of you guys understand......Ok, that's my word on "flushing". (No one listens to this in threads if they don't want to hear it or accept it.)

Now then, you propose the "FADE TO FINISH" method. Great idea in theory but, and this IS a BIG BUT! Remember when I said above that "the nutritional "stores" in a plant are not in buds or budding or flowers!" ? This shoots that theory in the ass right away. You see the main amount of stored nutrition is in either the roots and the rest in leaves and some in small amounts in transit in the phloam (the sap that actually moves the nutrients around the plant)......

Now when you "starve a plant" it will draw from it's self by actually breaking down the needed parts of it's self to do an "emergency" attempt to reproduce! (This can happen in certain plants even in veg! A kind of last ditch effort to continue the species.)

With that in mind you take the fact that the plant is not "moving" nutrients "out" of buds, but into them to speed growth and as fast as it can - "reproduce". This single minded process the plant now puts it's self on, causes the plant to stress it's self. This self induced stress can, in many cases if done long enough, lead the plant to go bisexual, and produce "banana's" in a last ditch effort to reproduce and "carry on the line" and produce seeds...

Basically put, In reality you are moving nutrients that you're "attempting" to get rid of,,right to where your trying to remove them from! You are also stressing the plant in the way for "Herming" to actually happen easier!

I and many others that have tried to convey this actual plant science, are called everything you can think of and those 'impossible of understanding these facts", fight so hard against us that many of us have simply chosen to avoid the issue or don't fight to hard.

Anyway, there you are in as short and sweet and as simple/understandable as I can...

The thing is you have to understand Botany and Horticulture (and there are LOTS of subsections to those that are involved here) to truly put together the pieces of the puzzle to get your head wrapped around the idea that flushing and the "fade" don't work for what they are intended or alleged to actually do!

There you go Mods, nice, polite and to the point. (Sorry about the other thread Sunni)

There you go, Now have at it!
I'm stepping back to watch the circus.

Read this too!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/

Any more questions?

Lulz, triggered.

 

[Daveindiego]

Likely because the recomended concentrations are 2 or 3x too strong for cannabis and you have to eventually dilute it somehow or you will have overfed for months.

Fox farm over directs so much they have you flush constantly.

But professional food and flower producing greenhouses only stop feeding the last week to save money on the fertilizer. They feed by proper ppm's of nitrogen measured for their fertigation.

Of course they aren't trying to get the most canabanoids from their plants.

Also. The customers expect to need to flush from decades of being told too so they adjust their marketing and products to meet popular demand.

The president of dyna Grow admits in an interview he only made the bloom bottle due customer demand. Pot growers think extra pk makes more flowers so they wouldn't use only Grow nutes for pot. The tissue samples do not support Such less nitrogen in flower needed.

Now that everyone wants to flush they have dyna flush. Marketing and profit. I have used only a Grow ratio for years and in testing i watered only for 2 weeks 1 week and after my yellowing plants did not get me the results I needed when faded I learned to taper off the nutes during ripening. Their very last feed might be water only. Or they may still look like they need a little something. I want them to always have everything they need.

You can not "flush" anything out of the plant. Trying actually raises the concentration of mobile elements to the buds. You can rinse the medium but then you strip the cec of the soil and starve the plant of any needed elements.

Hope this helped.

Thanks.

When I’m using the term ‘flush’, I’m not using it in the same intent as getting a chemical in my eye. What I’m trying to accomplish, in my simple mind, is to get the plant to absorb any residual nutrients that it may not have yet absorbed.

I’m also thinking about how I have been taking my feedings up to 1500ppm. I’m being suggested by dispensary growers to ride a razors edge on burning the plants while giving it the most nutrient possible. Perhaps this ‘flush’ is to wash away an extreme excess of unnecessary nutrients.

Last point, if H&G sold me a product that by their recipe I ended up burning my plants, I wouldn’t be too quick to use that product again. I understand the concept of wanting to sell more, but if I destroy my product, what good is it?

Thanks again.

 

[Daveindiego]

The nutes I use don't recommend that you flush. The manufacturer might tell you to use a certain amount as well but it will end up burning your plants. Nutrient companies are in it for the money. You can't listen to anything they have to say. It's not as if they are the holy grail of cannabis growing knowledge.

I posted a picture of their feed schedule where it calls for a flush, but they make no product for that flush.

 

[Daveindiego]

View attachment 4020902

@Indacouch , you never told me what you thought of my flushed flower.

Here is another flower that is being flushed this very week. It’s hard as a baseball.

 

[zep_lover]

bud looks nice.trying different ways will teach you what way you like.i prefer no flush and run less then half what most nutrient companies recommend.using e.c is the best way to talk about your nutrient strengths since not everyone uses the same conversion factor to figure ppm.

 

[Daveindiego]

bud looks nice.trying different ways will teach you what way you like.i prefer no flush and run less then half what most nutrient companies recommend.using e.c is the best way to talk about your nutrient strengths since not everyone uses the same conversion factor to figure ppm.

Thanks.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Thanks.

When I’m using the term ‘flush’, I’m not using it in the same intent as getting a chemical in my eye. What I’m trying to accomplish, in my simple mind, is to get the plant to absorb any residual nutrients that it may not have yet absorbed.

I’m also thinking about how I have been taking my feedings up to 1500ppm. I’m being suggested by dispensary growers to ride a razors edge on burning the plants while giving it the most nutrient possible. Perhaps this ‘flush’ is to wash away an extreme excess of unnecessary nutrients.

Last point, if H&G sold me a product that by their recipe I ended up burning my plants, I wouldn’t be too quick to use that product again. I understand the concept of wanting to sell more, but if I destroy my product, what good is it?

Thanks again.

I have never needed 1500 ppm (at .5 conversion factor ) even for a half pound plant. That is 2x what I fertilize with.

Plants only need what they need. We don't "feed" them in the traditional human sense. They use light for energy. The fertilizer takes the place of the NPK and trace elements in the ground. We fertilize the soil so the elements are available to the plant for uptake as needed.

They will unfortunately take up whatever we give them as they are an accumulator type of plant. So for high quality and plant potential it is very important not to feed or water on an arbitrary schedule. Or especially over feed. Some plants can take a lot and still not burn. But they didn't necessarily need that much. We are pumping them up after a point. But quality suffers in the final product. It is also the main cause of hermies. But everyone wants to think light leaks are the main cause. Overfed plants are quite stressed. It is unnatural for them.

Here is an 11 week flowered plant never fed more than 700 ppm and only a Grow ratio. Watered only for 6 weeks in ocean forest from seed then fed when needed in flower with less concentratation tapering off to the very last water/feed.

She had most all her original leaves at harvest.


Here she is stripped. I don't remember the yield but these plants are trained to be 30" tall max. And the average is about 6 oz. per plant.

I Grow according to what the plant tells me. No schedule. They decide everything but when I bend them.

I use Greenhouse guides. University agriculture pages and books for Grow info. Not the back of a bottle. But I do always consult the manufacturer sites as well. Pro mix has an amazing education section. Just no cannabis.

 

[Daveindiego]

I have never needed 1500 ppm (at .5 conversion factor ) even for a half pound plant. That is 2x what I fertilize with.

Plants only need what they need. We don't "feed" them in the traditional human sense. They use light for energy. The fertilizer takes the place of the NPK and trace elements in the ground. We fertilize the soil so the elements are available to the plant for uptake as needed.

They will unfortunately take up whatever we give them as they are an accumulator type of plant. So for high quality and plant potential it is very important not to feed or water on an arbitrary schedule. Or especially over feed. Some plants can take a lot and still not burn. But they didn't necessarily need that much. We are pumping them up after a point. But quality suffers in the final product. It is also the main cause of hermies. But everyone wants to think light leaks are the main cause. Overfed plants are quite stressed. It is unnatural for them.

Here is an 11 week flowered plant never fed more than 700 ppm and only a Grow ratio. Watered only for 6 weeks in ocean forest from seed then fed when needed in flower with less concentratation tapering off to the very last water/feed.

She had most all her original leaves at harvest.
View attachment 4021115

Here she is stripped. I don't remember the yield but these plants are trained to be 30" tall max. And the average is about 6 oz. per plant.
View attachment 4021128
I Grow according to what the plant tells me. No schedule. They decide everything but when I bend them.

I use Greenhouse guides. University agriculture pages and books for Grow info. Not the back of a bottle. But I do always consult the manufacturer sites as well. Pro mix has an amazing education section. Just no cannabis.

Whoa. Very nice. Thank you.

I’m new at this. Very new.

One thing I did was to learn by site and feel when it was time to feed my plants, no schedules were kept for feeding times. I did maintain a weekly feeding schedule of so much base nutrient A/B and associated secondary nutrients.

My lessons learned on my most recent attempt was , use tomato cages, pay attention to the heat and 90 degrees really does matter, and ratcheting up the PPMs doesn’t lead to good things.

As long as I’m learning something each time, I’m happy. This flushing thing has me confused.

 

[Indacouch]

So it seems that some people become rather ‘emotional’ over NOT flushing, and instead seem to prefer to ‘feed correctly’ and ‘wind down the nutrients’ at the end. Fuck flushing.

If that be the case, then what is a typical ‘wind it down’ in a

@Indacouch , you never told me what you thought of my flushed flower.

Here is another flower that is being flushed this very week. It’s hard as a baseball.

View attachment 4021054

Cute lil thing

 

[Budley Doright]

Whoa. Very nice. Thank you.

I’m new at this. Very new.

One thing I did was to learn by site and feel when it was time to feed my plants, no schedules were kept for feeding times. I did maintain a weekly feeding schedule of so much base nutrient A/B and associated secondary nutrients.

My lessons learned on my most recent attempt was , use tomato cages, pay attention to the heat and 90 degrees really does matter, and ratcheting up the PPMs doesn’t lead to good things.

As long as I’m learning something each time, I’m happy. This flushing thing has me confused.

The flushing thing has a lot of people confused lol. My suggestion to you would be keep trying different things like take it to the brink, feed it at lower levels, flush and don't flush and then do what works for you. Never stop trying new things re growing, that's what makes it fun and promotes great discussions (hopefully lol). I planted my first crop at 14 and I'll be a couple of years shy of 60 in a month and still learning lots of new stuff and ya I find it very cool lol.

 

[Indacouch]

Whoa. Very nice. Thank you.

I’m new at this. Very new.

One thing I did was to learn by site and feel when it was time to feed my plants, no schedules were kept for feeding times. I did maintain a weekly feeding schedule of so much base nutrient A/B and associated secondary nutrients.

My lessons learned on my most recent attempt was , use tomato cages, pay attention to the heat and 90 degrees really does matter, and ratcheting up the PPMs doesn’t lead to good things.

As long as I’m learning something each time, I’m happy. This flushing thing has me confused.

Been on here all day and still confused .....beginner section ...your welcome

 

[Budley Doright]

Oh and you are letting that plant go another couple of weeks I hope .

 

[Daveindiego]

Been on here all day and still confused .....beginner section ...your welcome

No traffic there.

And I’d hate to miss out on your wisdom.

 

[Daveindiego]

Oh and you are letting that plant go another couple of weeks I hope .

Who are you talking to?

Because if you’re talking to me, I’m thinking that I’m late on that plant.

After FLUSHING it two more times, I’m cutting it down Monday.

 

[Budley Doright]

I have never needed 1500 ppm (at .5 conversion factor ) even for a half pound plant. That is 2x what I fertilize with.

Plants only need what they need. We don't "feed" them in the traditional human sense. They use light for energy. The fertilizer takes the place of the NPK and trace elements in the ground. We fertilize the soil so the elements are available to the plant for uptake as needed.

They will unfortunately take up whatever we give them as they are an accumulator type of plant. So for high quality and plant potential it is very important not to feed or water on an arbitrary schedule. Or especially over feed. Some plants can take a lot and still not burn. But they didn't necessarily need that much. We are pumping them up after a point. But quality suffers in the final product. It is also the main cause of hermies. But everyone wants to think light leaks are the main cause. Overfed plants are quite stressed. It is unnatural for them.

Here is an 11 week flowered plant never fed more than 700 ppm and only a Grow ratio. Watered only for 6 weeks in ocean forest from seed then fed when needed in flower with less concentratation tapering off to the very last water/feed.

She had most all her original leaves at harvest.
View attachment 4021115

Here she is stripped. I don't remember the yield but these plants are trained to be 30" tall max. And the average is about 6 oz. per plant.
View attachment 4021128
I Grow according to what the plant tells me. No schedule. They decide everything but when I bend them.

I use Greenhouse guides. University agriculture pages and books for Grow info. Not the back of a bottle. But I do always consult the manufacturer sites as well. Pro mix has an amazing education section. Just no cannabis.

That's the first I've heard about herms caused by over feeding. Is there an actual study of this happening? I dont overfeed so maybe that's why I don't get herms . I don't think light leaks do anything other than prolong flowering and cause weird growth, I've had a few lol. Nice plant btw, I see that the tips are slightly burnt, is that an indicator that you use re not to feed more?

 

[Budley Doright]

Who are you talking to?

Because if you’re talking to me, I’m thinking that I’m late on that plant.

After FLUSHING it two more times, I’m cutting it down Monday.

Wow really? Have you tried letting them go a bit longer?

 

[Daveindiego]

Wow really? Have you tried letting them go a bit longer?

Every indication these plants are showing me says it’s time. Leaves have yellowed and fallen off, nothing is getting any bigger. The white hairs have turned color and receded. I cant get a good look under micro.

Why, what do you see?

This is the beginning of week 10 entering that tent for flower.

 

[Budley Doright]

The hairs don't look like they've receeded in the pic but it is only one bud. All your leaves fell off?

 

[Daveindiego]

The hairs don't look like they've receeded in the pic but it is only one bud. All your leaves fell off?

Yeah, it’s not looking so good. They limped to the end.

As stated, one of my lessons learned on this grow is that 90 degrees really does matter. Didn’t help.

 

[xtsho]

@Indacouch , you never told me what you thought of my flushed flower.

Here is another flower that is being flushed this very week. It’s hard as a baseball.

View attachment 4021054

I'd let that plant go another two weeks. But that's just me. People harvest at different times. Enjoy the bud you get.