Flavors n Taste....

[Odin*]

Well you did divert to politics but I appreciate the info. Thank you. I have been studying for quite some time now and will read what you have provided later. Still gardening now.


I never meant to suggest you don’t know your shit. We are mostly on the same page. And I look to your informative posts for direction. I am only trying to learn.


I do disagree (from the same information) that the path to better results is manipulation of all these parameters. We obviously need to so we can determine the processes.


Instead I feel that we will learn to provide the proper environment and nutrients in the right ratios and even the proper active biology for best amino acid production and such. And not just do things that work for other crops pretending it works for ours.


The plant changes processes through the cycles but the nutrient profile used and stored does not change much at all.


Just like the natural soil the best plants grow geographically. It doesn’t change composition regardless of the huge amazing plants growing in it that change so much throughout their life cycle. The right elements are available to them in full.

I really don’t have the time to breakdown how these two articles are applicable. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said...

interpret/navigate/extrapolate/incorporae

“in a nutshell”;



-Nutrient needs change throughout bloom

-These needs are strain dependent, as their needs change depending on terpene/cannabinoid/carotenoid development

-Each terpene/cannabinoid/carotenoid type requires different nutrients for biosynthesis

-Different strains develop their terpene profiles on unique schedules (eg; starts out smelling like fuel, ends with earthy chocolate nose VS starts out earthy, finishes with fuel nose)

-“One balanced feed” throughout bloom will not accommodate a given strains needs

-Spikes in a particular terpenes development will coincide with spikes in varying nutrient requirements

-In a “balanced feed”, nutrient deficits in terpene requirements may not result in visible deficiencies, but in weakened terpene profile/development (think “mediocre” VS “optimum”)

-Knowing the terpene development schedule of a strain and the nutrient requirements of those terpenes, coupled with the knowledge/ability to “deliver”/facilitate nutrient uptake/biosynthesis can lead to a broader terpene profile and greater terpene development


Rather than “One balanced feed”, a strain specific nutrient regimen that is dialed to terpene development and takes environmental factors into account is “optimal”.

 

[GreenHighlander]

The best answer to all of this that I have personally found is trying to supply a rich balance mix that my girls can use what they need to from.
It has been the easiest with the best results for me.
Cheers

 

[Odin*]

@Odin*

I was taught in the gym in my youth in the 70’s to wait more than 2 minutes between sets.

I think it is instructed that way in the book “Pumping Iron”.

And now that we are talking weight lifting I think I will put my plants on a good program. More muscular branches is the goal.

3 sets of 10 to a bigger yield!

They had it right back then. “New science” came along and screwed up. I think that was early 90’s when the “1 minute rest period” bs came out.

Arnold Schwarzenegger’s “Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding”. Read that when I was 15, used it as “training wheels”. Started out as a “power lifter”, almost got into bodybuilding, now I’m just trying to stay in shape.


I’ve been hanging dumbbells from their branches, not working out so well.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

They had it right back then. “New science” came along and screwed up. I think that was early 90’s when the “1 minute rest period” bs came out.

Arnold Schwarzenegger’s “Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding”. Read that when I was 15, used it as “training wheels”. Started out as a “power lifter”, almost got into bodybuilding, now I’m just trying to stay in shape.


I’ve been hanging dumbbells from their branches, not working out so well.

Need more potassium for stronger branch “guns”.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

I really don’t have the time to breakdown how these two articles are applicable. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said...





“in a nutshell”;



-Nutrient needs change throughout bloom

-These needs are strain dependent, as their needs change depending on terpene/cannabinoid/carotenoid development

-Each terpene/cannabinoid/carotenoid type requires different nutrients for biosynthesis

-Different strains develop their terpene profiles on unique schedules (eg; starts out smelling like fuel, ends with earthy chocolate nose VS starts out earthy, finishes with fuel nose)

-“One balanced feed” throughout bloom will not accommodate a given strains needs

-Spikes in a particular terpenes development will coincide with spikes in varying nutrient requirements

-In a “balanced feed”, nutrient deficits in terpene requirements may not result in visible deficiencies, but in weakened terpene profile/development (think “mediocre” VS “optimum”)

-Knowing the terpene development schedule of a strain and the nutrient requirements of those terpenes, coupled with the knowledge/ability to “deliver”/facilitate nutrient uptake/biosynthesis can lead to a broader terpene profile and greater terpene development


Rather than “One balanced feed”, a strain specific nutrient regimen that is dialed to terpene development and takes environmental factors into account is “optimal”.

I understand. One question though. And the doubt of manipulating natural processes for an overall better result is why I still disagree this is the path to better pot.

What is lost while we manipulate the parameter we are focusing on?

We haven’t even identified all the different canabanoids yet. Or exactly how they develop.

 

[Odin*]

@Odin*

I was taught in the gym in my youth in the 70’s to wait more than 2 minutes between sets.

This also highlights another point. It’s knowing “Why?”. Knowing why that 2+ minute break is important is what kept me from falling for “the hype” and bs “new science”.Sometimes “Why?” contradicts what we know for fact, sometimes “Why?” makes all the sense in the world. Knowing “Why?” is crucial.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

This also highlights another point. It’s knowing “Why?”. Knowing why that 2+ minute break is important is what kept me from falling for “the hype” and bs “new science”.Sometimes “Why?” contradicts what we know for fact, sometimes “Why?” makes all the sense in the world. Knowing “Why?” is crucial.

Agreed.

This is my main point in any discussion.

That’s why I argue with the “experts” that say things like Sulfer Grows trichs. Or a certain light bulb is better.

Why?

The answer is almost always. They don’t know. They were told.

 

[Odin*]

I understand. One question though. And the doubt of manipulating natural processes for an overall better result is why I still disagree this is the path to better pot.

If that’s the case, take a bag of landrace regs, throw them around the yard, and let it ride.

What is lost while we manipulate the parameter we are focusing on?

Nothing should be lost, our efforts should be “all encompassing”, and regimen “optimal”.

We haven’t even identified all the different canabanoids yet. Or exactly how they develop.

No, but if we “embrace” the idea of “strain dependent optimal feed”, use what we do “know”, and “experiment” to the best of our abilities/capabilities, then it is possible to further dial in the needs of a given strain. That also means that it is possible to “enhance” the terpene profile of a particular strain based on known terpenes and their nutrient requirements. *Cough* as @Dr. Who said *cough*

 

[tyke1973]

Try more punctuation, like starting new paragraph's. That is a pain in the ass to read!

Wrong? You told us nothing but "no till"....... So how did you amend the soil?
Do any "spiking" in bloom?
How well balanced is your S in the mix and if the soil is on it's second or third run, how are you re-amending for S?

Ever think of organic sourced Mg sulfate and potassium sulfate mixed in watering's to enhance terps and trich's..

You should know that Mg sulfate = Berry/Grape influence
Potassium sulfate = Citrus influence

Dude i Struggle with Writing ,its not something you should make some one look a twat with ,Just dont read it .

 

[Odin*]

Need more potassium for stronger branch “guns”.

Damn, guess I should return this case of “Muscle Milk” I planned on “force feeding” them. I heard “Branched chain aminos” and was sold, made sense at the time.

 

[GreenHighlander]

Damn, guess I should return this case of “Muscle Milk” I planned on “force feeding” them. I heard “Branched chain aminos” and was sold, made sense at the time.

I give my girls fight milk. Got a mad hookup from charlie day himself

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

If that’s the case, take a bag of landrace regs, throw them around the yard, and let it ride.



Nothing should be lost, our efforts should be “all encompassing”, and regimen “optimal”.



No, but if we “embrace” the idea of “strain dependent optimal feed”, use what we do “know”, and “experiment” to the best of our abilities/capabilities, then it is possible to further dial in the needs of a given strain. That also means that it is possible to “enhance” the terpene profile of a particular strain based on known terpenes and their nutrient requirements. *Cough* as @Dr. Who said *cough*

But as good as my soil is around my yard the light is not always optimal and the season can be short and rainy.

So I want landrace seeds grown in Hawaii or somewhere optimal.

And you didn’t really answer to changing the original profile of the strain through manipulation of terpenes or whatever is being focused on.

If the plant is making more or stronger one thing what is it lacking in now?

Nature is like that eh? It doesn’t work well when we tamper with its balance.

 

[Odin*]

But as good as my soil is around my yard the light is not always optimal and the season can be short and rainy.

So I want landrace seeds grown in Hawaii or somewhere optimal.

And you didn’t really answer to changing the original profile of the strain through manipulation of terpenes or whatever is being focused on.

If the plant is making more or stronger one thing what is it lacking in now?

Nature is like that eh? It doesn’t work well when we tamper with its balance.

We aren’t looking to “change” the profile (at least, I’m not), just “enhance”. A strain predisposed to “fuel”, bring out more fuel, “citrus”, get us much citrus as you can.

Nothing should be lacking, nothing lost, or compromised. Ideally, you’re filling in appropriately where there was a “deficiency”. Again, this isn’t to say that a given terpene wasn’t being developed at all, or that the plant was exhibiting signs of deficiency, but that there was room for improvement/enhancement through timing and application.

Taking the “super bomb sticky” to the next level.

 

[GreenHighlander]

Again I agree. I just personally feel one of my girls knows better then I do what she needs.
There is no "super bomb sticky" that can be forced on a cannabis plant. Yes they certainly do differ in uptake and output but there is no magic secret .
Cannabis was "super bomb sticky" before we came along, and she will be "super bomb sticky" long after we are gone.
Nowadays I view my cannabis much like I do my vegetables, fruit trees, beef, pork, chicken, pond full of trout.
The food science, has actually proven organic contain higher nutrients then conventional industrial farming. The proof to me is in the science and the taste.
The science is not yet there in regards to cannabis but the difference I have noticed in my medicine between "feed the soil grown" and "feed the plant from a bottle grown" is not even comparable. I believe we will see science is also eventually going to back up the nutrient content (cannabinoids/turpines, etc) in cannabis just like it has in other plants.
I know based on my own experience and a few others I know , this sure seems to be the case.
Cheers

 

[Odin*]

I give my girls fight milk. Got a mad hookup from charlie day himself

Had to look up “Fight Milk”, but now I’m ready to watch my profits soar!

 

[GreenHighlander]

Had to look up “Fight Milk”, but now I’m ready to watch my profits soar!

HAHAHAHAHA Nice one. I choked on my smoke lol

 

[Odin*]

Again I agree. I just personally feel one of my girls knows better then I do what she needs.
There is no "super bomb sticky" that can be forced on a cannabis plant. Yes they certainly do differ in uptake and output but there is no magic secret .
Cannabis was "super bomb sticky" before we came along, and she will be "super bomb sticky" long after we are gone.
Nowadays I view my cannabis much like I do my vegetables, fruit trees, beef, pork, chicken, pond full of trout.
The food science, has actually proven organic contain higher nutrients then conventional industrial farming. The proof to me is in the science and the taste.
The science is not yet there in regards to cannabis but the difference I have noticed in my medicine between "feed the soil grown" and "feed the plant from a bottle grown" is not even comparable. I believe we will see science is also eventually going to back up the nutrient content (cannabinoids/turpines, etc) in cannabis just like it has in other plants.
I know based on my own experience and a few others I know , this sure seems to be the case.
Cheers

Same strain, “mids” VS “super bomb sticky”. That “super bomb” is closer to optimal, “mids” far from optimal. It is through manipulation of the environment and nutrient regimen that optimal can be achieved. “Optimal” being the plant’s full potential.

Are you suggesting that someone has already achieved “optimal”, that it doesn’t get any better? Chances are “none” (“slim” doesn’t fit here).

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Same strain, “mids” VS “super bomb sticky”. That “super bomb” is closer to optimal, “mids” far from optimal. It is through manipulation of the environment and nutrient regimen that optimal can be achieved. “Optimal” being the plant’s full potential.

Are you suggesting that someone has already achieved “optimal”, that it doesn’t get any better? Chances are “none” (“slim” doesn’t fit here).

It has already been overbred, seized and lost way past “optimal”.

 

[GreenHighlander]

Same strain, “mids” VS “super bomb sticky”. That “super bomb” is closer to optimal, “mids” far from optimal. It is through manipulation of the environment and nutrient regimen that optimal can be achieved. “Optimal” being the plant’s full potential.

Are you suggesting that someone has already achieved “optimal”, that it doesn’t get any better? Chances are “none” (“slim” doesn’t fit here).

I can tell you that optimal for some strains. Specifically some Sativas is less. Not more. Blueberry is another I can think of off hand.
I am just saying it is not all about pumping up this or that. She knows what she is doing. You make everything she needs available to her she will reach optimal. In MY experience again a lot of strains will not reach optimal for medical use without those nutrients being made available like it would be in nature. Ya you might get super high and you might get a huge yield. But it does not have the same medical benefit for me and others I know.
I would also like to say that yes some strains do like everything super heavy.
Cheers

 

[GreenHighlander]

It has already been overbred, seized and lost way past “optimal”.

I also agree sadly with this. It haunts me to think what has been lost thanks to prohibition and the drive for high yields and high THC