LB's Wildly Mediocre DWC/ScROG Grow

[Hydro4life]

Yeah I think I'm going to hold off on the supercropping and all, one lesson at a time and it's probably a tad late for the positive affects to outweigh the delay to the plants. I'm going to go ahead and order some Armor Si (like rhino skin but from GH), I think it'll help with heat stress and these couple of pesky leaf hoppers. When you guys have two small budsites in a square, and neither can be tucked over to a seperate one, you just remove them right? My squares are 2x2inches on the first screen, so I'm guessing that's too tight for 2 bud sites.
On a side note, is it strange that these plants are gobbling up over 1500-1600ppms (.5 scale)? I feel kind of insane seeing them look healthy while being given so much nutes!

Yea good idea I think,
Nah don’t remove good budsites that are receiving good light Logan. If you can, try to tie them away from each other a tad to allow light between them and airflow around buds.
And thats a good thing Logan! Their eating a lot because they are healthy and growing/developing well. Keep a close eye on how much nutrients they uptake (it will slow down a little soon)
If they slow down too much on the nutrient uptake side of things then you may need to do a res/bucket change.
When I got into the co2 supplementation side of things I realised how important this is and monitoring/adjusting your ppm strength to your room temp and humidity.
The warmer and dryer the room is, the more the plants will drink and will naturally uptake more nutrients with the water and vice versa. So generally the warmer/dryer the room the weaker you would go with your nutes as they will still uptake the same amount of nutes if that makes sense?
But as you said, they still look healthy so may be a hungry strain?
Just something to keep in mind.

On a side note I’ve been doing a bit of research on amino acid supplements, and how they aid in nute uptake, especially calcium.
I use big bud from AN. And love it lol. Meant to have a lot of amino acids in it. Have you used big bud in early to mid flower Logan??

 

[Logan Burke]

Yeah that makes perfect sense to me, with my region and climate the humidity is generally between 30-55%, and using a window AC unit directly hooked to my tent's intake duct work the temp is always in between 72F and 80F. So pretty average in regards to temp and rh. Once my plants get in the full swing of flower, I'll usually only do 1 res change from this point all the way to flush, then of course a few changes throughout the course of flush. If I have problems then I do res changes more oftenly, but if PH and PPM stays consistent then I just let them ride. I used to change water religously every week, but I've honestly just not had any problems waiting 2 or 3 weeks as opposed to every 7 days. And back when I had tried AN on my very first hydro run using bag seed I had tried the AN Big Bud. But due to bad genetics and general ignorance of DWC, things didn't go so well. I do use LKB, but I wonder how much it is an equivelant or if it is at all?...If not, I do really need to find a product to get some amino acids in my system...unless my base nute or Liquid Kool Bloom has any, I'm not sure on that. I would just buy some Big Bud, but I'm a bit funny about mixing different branded nutrients together. I've been kind of wanting to branch out and experiment with some new nutes, either that or Co2 will be the next project I experiment with. Oh and I forgot to add, yeah they still look healthy as ever! As you mentioned, I believe they're starting to slow down on their appetite, just in regards to not wanting their nutes increased every few days like before. Now, they've seemed pretty content in the 1500-1700ppm range. White Rhino is said to be a heavy feeder, in early veg I had a bad cal/mag deficiency that would only go away when I started feeding 100% bottle strength base nutes and a full strength dose of CaliMagic, 4mL/gallon. I'm about to start reducing CaliMagic though, some leaves are a bit dark on my plants.

 

[Logan Burke]

Just some update pics, my apologies for the HPS being on! Let me know if you guys see anything I need to do!

 

[Hydro4life]

Looks really good Logan!
You could put something under the front bucket and gently raise that part of canopy.... it should expose more bud sites to the light and give you a more even canopy

 

[Hydro4life]

Yeah that makes perfect sense to me, with my region and climate the humidity is generally between 30-55%, and using a window AC unit directly hooked to my tent's intake duct work the temp is always in between 72F and 80F. So pretty average in regards to temp and rh. Once my plants get in the full swing of flower, I'll usually only do 1 res change from this point all the way to flush, then of course a few changes throughout the course of flush. If I have problems then I do res changes more oftenly, but if PH and PPM stays consistent then I just let them ride. I used to change water religously every week, but I've honestly just not had any problems waiting 2 or 3 weeks as opposed to every 7 days. And back when I had tried AN on my very first hydro run using bag seed I had tried the AN Big Bud. But due to bad genetics and general ignorance of DWC, things didn't go so well. I do use LKB, but I wonder how much it is an equivelant or if it is at all?...If not, I do really need to find a product to get some amino acids in my system...unless my base nute or Liquid Kool Bloom has any, I'm not sure on that. I would just buy some Big Bud, but I'm a bit funny about mixing different branded nutrients together. I've been kind of wanting to branch out and experiment with some new nutes, either that or Co2 will be the next project I experiment with. Oh and I forgot to add, yeah they still look healthy as ever! As you mentioned, I believe they're starting to slow down on their appetite, just in regards to not wanting their nutes increased every few days like before. Now, they've seemed pretty content in the 1500-1700ppm range. White Rhino is said to be a heavy feeder, in early veg I had a bad cal/mag deficiency that would only go away when I started feeding 100% bottle strength base nutes and a full strength dose of CaliMagic, 4mL/gallon. I'm about to start reducing CaliMagic though, some leaves are a bit dark on my plants.

Sounds like your right on the ball there Logan. I pretty well do the same with my res changes also.
You will have a bit of fun with co2 supplementation I think!!
Just be mindful if you get a co2 generator then you will add a lot of humidity as the byproduct is water vapour. But doesn’t sound like you have high rh issues and bumping up your rh may help a little and you’ll notice bigger growth during the stretch!! (Obviously not keeping rh too high during mid to late flower)
A good dehumidifier may be needed but you will be able to control your humidity better this way imo.
I find it easier to bring humidity down to where I want it than trying to get humidity up.

 

[Logan Burke]

Yeah raising humidity is a pain in the ass unless you're working in a very small space!! Even at that, with decent ventilation it's like pushing a boulder up a hill with a paper clip without a strong one. I guess I just got lucky with my area and climate haha. And thanks for the encouragment, I have a horrible tendency to overthink and over-emphasize things in my grow, so for now I'm just trying my best to relax and not change anything up. I've not increased their nutrient strength in over 2 or 3 weeks now though, and I'm beginning to see some real mild browning/rust on the edges of their larger more mature leaves. So, as much as I really don't want to, I think I'm going to have to increase their nutrients from 1500-1700 to 1600-1800. I'm trying not to mess up by not increasing nutes often enough as that's what bombed my last grow. I ordered my Silica product so it will be here Mon or Tue. Oh and I've been meaning to ask, when are you going to do a grow journal Hydro??? > After all, I need someone's setup to copy....haha just kidding.

 

[Hydro4life]

Yeah raising humidity is a pain in the ass unless you're working in a very small space!! Even at that, with decent ventilation it's like pushing a boulder up a hill with a paper clip without a strong one. I guess I just got lucky with my area and climate haha. And thanks for the encouragment, I have a horrible tendency to overthink and over-emphasize things in my grow, so for now I'm just trying my best to relax and not change anything up. I've not increased their nutrient strength in over 2 or 3 weeks now though, and I'm beginning to see some real mild browning/rust on the edges of their larger more mature leaves. So, as much as I really don't want to, I think I'm going to have to increase their nutrients from 1500-1700 to 1600-1800. I'm trying not to mess up by not increasing nutes often enough as that's what bombed my last grow. I ordered my Silica product so it will be here Mon or Tue. Oh and I've been meaning to ask, when are you going to do a grow journal Hydro??? > After all, I need someone's setup to copy....haha just kidding.

Haha all good man.
I used to do the same!!
Not a bit of nute burn is it??
And I’ve been thinking about doing a grow journal for a while now.
But I’m training my mrs atm. And sort of letting her do a bit of trial and error. Best way to learn I reckon haha.
I point out issues and let her try to correct them and research for herself and only step in when really needed haha.
We have a perpetual grow going atm. With 4 600w hids in flower room, with different strains going so could be a bit confusing atm. Once I find the new strains/ phenos I want to keep I’ll do one then I think
I’ll PM you when I get the chance and show you what we’ve got going on atm. so I don’t clog up your thread with my stuff haha.

 

[Logan Burke]

Psh do I sound like I mind, lmao but ok man sounds good to me. But yeah I hear you, it can be fun showing other's the ropes but sometimes you just have to take a step back and let them make their own mistakes. If you do start a journal then let me know man! And yeah you may be right on the nute burn, I just assumed it wasn't nute burn due to not having raised the nutes in almost 3 weeks now. Here are some pics, my plant in the far back right corner is showing some very strange deep green, glossy shiney leaves...any clue what might be causing this? I know that the taller colas have some heat stress, but about half of this plant's canopy is getting this weird glossy green color. With the HPS on it may be tough to discern though. Let me know if so and I'll get pics under the cmh.

 

[Hydro4life]

Haha.
Will do man! I’m on days off in a couple of days so will pm you then when I have time.

Depending on strain and how far into flower,
I find their drinking will start to slow down and I usually don’t go to hard with the nutes at this stage... maybe back off a bit on the ppm
Yep, hard to see with hps.

I can see some nute burn and a calcium deficiency there Logan. But nothing too bad.

As you’d know, dark green leaves are usually caused by nitrogen toxicity.
Could be that your nute strength is just a bit high or your using a bit too much nitrogen in flower?

Are you adding cal/mag at all? If so, cal/mag is high in nitrogen and can bump the ppm up quite a bit,
But if you are then maybe your ph is drifting a bit on the high side as you have a slight calcium deficiency. (It’s not bad, ive had much worse! Haha)
Just some food for thought

But a pic under mh lighting would be awesome. And for the mean time, try backing the ppm off a bit for a while....

 

[Logan Burke]

Yes I've been adding full label strength CaliMagic, I had a horrid calcium and magnesium deficiency in early veg which only stopped once I added the CaliMagic. But I expected that come flowering I'd need to reduce it, and I guess that time's come. I've already began halfing their CaliMagic dose from 4ml/gal to 2ml/gal, I'm hoping that will be enough to stop the N tox? But yes I agree on the ppm's, I tried upping the ppm (not a lot, just from 1500-1650 to 1600-1750) and the ppm's have begun to spike pretty high, as far as 1900-2000 within 24hrs. Appreciate the tip on backing off of nutes, I thought I was still a couple weeks off from not increasing nutes anymore, but now that I know I'll definitely spend today dropping them back to say, 1500 tops? Anyhow, thanks for the info man! I just need to get these hot spots fixed and I should be good. I have a lot of air blowing through the tent, hopefully they aren't beating the plant's leaves too much, this summer heat is just a pain.

 

[Hydro4life]

Yes I've been adding full label strength CaliMagic, I had a horrid calcium and magnesium deficiency in early veg which only stopped once I added the CaliMagic. But I expected that come flowering I'd need to reduce it, and I guess that time's come. I've already began halfing their CaliMagic dose from 4ml/gal to 2ml/gal, I'm hoping that will be enough to stop the N tox? But yes I agree on the ppm's, I tried upping the ppm (not a lot, just from 1500-1650 to 1600-1750) and the ppm's have begun to spike pretty high, as far as 1900-2000 within 24hrs. Appreciate the tip on backing off of nutes, I thought I was still a couple weeks off from not increasing nutes anymore, but now that I know I'll definitely spend today dropping them back to say, 1500 tops? Anyhow, thanks for the info man! I just need to get these hot spots fixed and I should be good. I have a lot of air blowing through the tent, hopefully they aren't beating the plant's leaves too much, this summer heat is just a pain.

Are your ppms much lower after you top your buckets up with fresh water Logan?
If not then that’s telling me you more than likely need to do a bucket change out..... the plants are drinking more water than the ratio you are giving them.
I imagine you’ve got salt build up or are running your ppms too high and burning the roots zone (have been told salt build up burns the root zone also? But either or, a res change will help I think!)
I presume your plants aren’t uptaking the nutrients you are feeding them Logan.
Leading to calcium deficiency, and an uneven ratio of nutrient uptake.

If it were me, I’d change all my buckets out with fresh water and fresh nutes. (can be a pain in the arse when under a scrog net haha)
And use the same ratio of nutrients (eg. base nutes, cal/mag, bloom booster etc)
But only put in say 80% of what you have been putting in of each.

I think it’ll help a lot.

Maybe try 1400ppm??

At least that way without changing too many things at once, you can pinpoint your problem/s.

But my money would be on a res/bucket changeout

 

[Logan Burke]

Agreed on that, I am going to start res changes tonight. Unfortunetly, I can only do 1 res change a day due to the output of my RO system, and my own physical capabilities. I need to invest in a shop-vac and just vacuum all the water out of my buckets...talk about easy. But anyways, yeah I agree it is time for a res change as I start college classes in 8 days and with that added workload a res change isn't going to be as easy for me to do. I really hope I haven't set my plants back too far with this whole nutrient mishap
Oh and I forgot to answer, yes my ppm's are rising on a daily basis. Not by much, usually by 50-100ppm's when I don't bring the nutes above 1600ppms, when I let them get that high the ppm's spike even higher. At first I was thinking that the small spike was maybe due to lower humidity on 35%, but I am starting to think that you may be right about the imbalance of nute uptake and everything. All I can hope is that I've not set these babies back to far or done any permanent damage...I'm cool if they've just been set back and will take extra time, it's damage that can't be corrected with some extra grow time that I'm scared of.

*Edit* My back isn't hurting too bad today so I think I can change two bucket's res, thankfully! The two plants on the left side of my tent aren't nearly as dark in their leaves, so I'll do their res changes last as the two on the right just don't look so vigorous. Silicate also arrived today!

 

[Hydro4life]

Agreed on that, I am going to start res changes tonight. Unfortunetly, I can only do 1 res change a day due to the output of my RO system, and my own physical capabilities. I need to invest in a shop-vac and just vacuum all the water out of my buckets...talk about easy. But anyways, yeah I agree it is time for a res change as I start college classes in 8 days and with that added workload a res change isn't going to be as easy for me to do. I really hope I haven't set my plants back too far with this whole nutrient mishap
Oh and I forgot to answer, yes my ppm's are rising on a daily basis. Not by much, usually by 50-100ppm's when I don't bring the nutes above 1600ppms, when I let them get that high the ppm's spike even higher. At first I was thinking that the small spike was maybe due to lower humidity on 35%, but I am starting to think that you may be right about the imbalance of nute uptake and everything. All I can hope is that I've not set these babies back to far or done any permanent damage...I'm cool if they've just been set back and will take extra time, it's damage that can't be corrected with some extra grow time that I'm scared of.

Can’t do any damage doing a res change. Well...... not to the plants anyway
Looks to me that you haven’t done much damage at all. They’ll be fine. Pretty hearty plants!!
I think it will be a good comparison, if your changing one bucket a day Logan.
Comparing 1st plant you do a res change to, to the 4th, if doing 1 bucket a day.

 

[Logan Burke]

Yeah I know what ya mean, after all what's the worst that can happen if they didn't need the change ya know. And hell as long as they're fine I'm fine, I can heal up lol. Anyways, now that I've my Armor Si silicate in I'm going to run to Walmart and then drain my RO system again and get busy! Anyways, appreciate the save that, just for the heck of it I'm going to take some pics to compare the other plants to over the next few days.

 

[Hydro4life]

Yeah I know what ya mean, after all what's the worst that can happen if they didn't need the change ya know. And hell as long as they're fine I'm fine, I can heal up lol. Anyways, now that I've my Armor Si silicate in I'm going to run to Walmart and then drain my RO system again and get busy! Anyways, appreciate the save that, just for the heck of it I'm going to take some pics to compare the other plants to over the next few days.

Totally agree haha.
That’s what I love about growing. No matter how much you know, theirs always more to learn!
Yes, will Be good to see some comparison photos. The damage won’t repair but will hopefully stop getting any/much worse!

 

[Logan Burke]

That always confused me, with N being a mobile element you would think that too much of it in a leaf would be able to be corrected as long as the source of too much N was fixed. But anyways, at least I've caught it before the damage became severe!

 

[Stltoed]

Sounds like you had root rot stltoed!? I’ve had root rot bad on a 6 foot tall northern lights! I trained her for nearly 3 months in veg! She was nearly as tall as she was wide! Took up most of my room in a 2m x 2m x 2m tent! She started getting a horrible smell when topping up or doing a bucket change out, roots turned dark brown and started getting slimy. Leaves yellowed and plant pretty well died at week 4 of flower! I was gutted lol. I too used hydrogen peroxide etc to no avail. I now try to keep my res cool, ensure I have no light at all getting into my res. And one thing I know helps is having PLENTY of fine bubbles (like a fish tank. The more fine bubbles you have, the less chance of algae growing)
Unfortunately there’s always ups and downs to any medium you grow in. I went from soil to hydro because of fungas gnats! Don’t get them with hydro! Nor having to worry about over or under watering
Trust me man, don’t let a bad run of root rot turn you away from hydro, learn how to prevent it and you can get highly rewarded with hydro once dialled in! Just my 2 cents worth stltoed. Could always look into a water chiller to prevent root rot too

I added an organic additive that shouldnt ever be in hydro. That started the issue I had. It was root rot but it was from a nutrient. My hydro tubs are completely sealed. My water temps reached a high of 73 the other day only because it was 104 outside, I grow in a shed. My air pump is an Air Force 80 for 2 12 inch defusers, one for each tub. I love hydro. I grew a few seasons after my issues in dirt but just to try it. I added a couple shots of my system and my best in dirt

 

[Stltoed]

This is what I was talking about when I said I had some heat stressed looking leaves...any thoughts anyone? With canopy temps rarely, if ever, exceeding 80F, not sure why I'd get any heat stress.

I run my room at 85 most of the time. The flier from one of my light manufacturers said the lights work best if it's a bit warmer. It increases the metabolism. Was there any change in environment shortly before this happened?

 

[Stltoed]

This is what I was talking about when I said I had some heat stressed looking leaves...any thoughts anyone? With canopy temps rarely, if ever, exceeding 80F, not sure why I'd get any heat stress.

It seems to me that if it were heat stress the leaves wouldnt be so perky. Also it would be localised directly under the light

 

[Hydro4life]

I run my room at 85 most of the time. The flier from one of my light manufacturers said the lights work best if it's a bit warmer. It increases the metabolism. Was there any change in environment shortly before this happened?

Very true stltoed!