The Trade war between the US and Communist China

[Jimdamick]

collapsing of the farm industry due to tariffs

75% of the farms in the Mid West had the worst weather in 100 years with floods that would not allow them to plant.
That coupled with the tariffs has made this last year the worst in memory say a majority of those Trump voting idiots,
I would say good for you, but I'm not that heartless.
Ah, fuck my heart.
Tough shit.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/06/26/cdc-farmers-are-committing-suicide-at-5-times-the-rate-of-the-rest-of-the-population

 

[Fogdog]

75% of the farms in the Mid West had the worst weather in 100 years with floods that would not allow them to plant.
That coupled with the tariffs has made this last year the worst in memory say a majority of those Trump voting idiots,
I would say good for you, but I'm not that heartless.
Ah, fuck my heart.
Tough shit.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/06/26/cdc-farmers-are-committing-suicide-at-5-times-the-rate-of-the-rest-of-the-population

Those farms that flooded are mostly ok because the government is picking up the tab. The US government offers them crop insurance. Not as good as getting a crop in but the one I heard interviewed by NPR maintained that human caused global warming is a myth. The flooding is just a natural event. So he collects his crop insurance on his thousands of acres and waits until next year.

 

[Jimdamick]

Those farms that flooded are mostly ok because the government is picking up the tab. The US government offers them crop insurance. Not as good as getting a crop in but the one I heard interviewed by NPR maintained that human caused global warming is a myth. The flooding is just a natural event. So he collects his crop insurance on his thousands of acres and waits until next year.

The loss of product supply to US markets is going to hurt everything.
Corn for animals and ethanol, wheat for bread, soy for who the fuck knows.
It's going to cost the tax payer straight up $16 Billion, not counting insurance.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/may/23/aid-payments-16b-coming-farmers-hit-chinese-tariff/
The farmers are sorta getting bailed out now, but that can't last forever.

 

[abandonconflict]

The loss of product supply to US markets is going to hurt everything.
Corn for animals and ethanol, wheat for bread, soy for who the fuck knows.
It's going to cost the tax payer straight up $16 Billion, not counting insurance.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/may/23/aid-payments-16b-coming-farmers-hit-chinese-tariff/
The farmers are sorta getting bailed out now, but that can't last forever.

Don't worry, Bolsonaro is going to clear cut the Amazon for the US and Europe.

 

[medviper]

Don't worry, Bolsonaro is going to clear cut the Amazon for the US and Europe.

makes me wanna buy a new pontoon for the occasion.

 

[hotrodharley]

“The halt in purchases comes in response to the Trump administration's announcement of new tariffs on Chinese imports last week, China's Commerce Ministry said Tuesday morning. The new 10% tariffs on $300 billion worth of Chinese imports are set to take effect on September 1.
China's Commerce Ministry called the new tariffs a "serious violation of the consensus reached by the two countries' leaders in Osaka." At the June G20 meeting in Osaka, American and Chinese officials had agreed to a cease-fire in the trade war.”

The farmers brief glimmer of hope? Gone!

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/economy/china-us-agriculture/index.html

“The trade conflict has reached a new level of seriousness that will be difficult to reverse. The risk is that the trade war is approaching the point where it causes a severe economic slowdown or even a recession.

By digging into their positions, both the United States and China increase the risk of breaking a economy that is already starting to crack. Each round of escalation gets them closer to a recession — and to a point of no return.”

Many of us here agree China is willing to let its citizens take it in the ass than to give in any further to this petulant child.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/economy/trade-war-china-yuan/index.html

 

[abandonconflict]

“The halt in purchases comes in response to the Trump administration's announcement of new tariffs on Chinese imports last week, China's Commerce Ministry said Tuesday morning. The new 10% tariffs on $300 billion worth of Chinese imports are set to take effect on September 1.
China's Commerce Ministry called the new tariffs a "serious violation of the consensus reached by the two countries' leaders in Osaka." At the June G20 meeting in Osaka, American and Chinese officials had agreed to a cease-fire in the trade war.”

The farmers brief glimmer of hope? Gone!

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/economy/china-us-agriculture/index.html

“The trade conflict has reached a new level of seriousness that will be difficult to reverse. The risk is that the trade war is approaching the point where it causes a severe economic slowdown or even a recession.

By digging into their positions, both the United States and China increase the risk of breaking a economy that is already starting to crack. Each round of escalation gets them closer to a recession — and to a point of no return.”

Many of us here agree China is willing to let its citizens take it in the ass than to give in any further to this petulant child.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/economy/trade-war-china-yuan/index.html

It would be great if he would use his unique opportunity to something better. Duterte is basically giving his country to the reds. Since Trump is going to prison, he should just throw down the gloves and build air and missile defense all over SK and Taiwan. The US used to be the biggest producers of rare earths and not so long ago. China wants war. They just want us to attack them on their terms. They are terrified of the idea of a fight on our terms.

They will bend the knee before they attack, or they will lose.

 

[hotrodharley]

It would be great if he would use his unique opportunity to something better. Duterte is basically giving his country to the reds. Since Trump is going to prison, he should just throw down the gloves and build air and missile defense all over SK and Taiwan. The US used to be the biggest producers of rare earths and not so long ago. China wants war. They just want us to attack them on their terms. They are terrified of the idea of a fight on our terms.

They will bend the knee before they attack, or they will lose.

For one thing he’s way too stupid about Kim and North Korea. He gave in to him once (let’s hear ‘Obama was weak’ from the peanut gallery on the right) and Kim knew right then he plays a different game than he talks. It will be interesting to see what happens with joint exercises on the peninsula next. Kim calls them threatening and aggression even though North Korea is the one that attacked the South.

 

[abandonconflict]

“The halt in purchases comes in response to the Trump administration's announcement of new tariffs on Chinese imports last week, China's Commerce Ministry said Tuesday morning. The new 10% tariffs on $300 billion worth of Chinese imports are set to take effect on September 1.
China's Commerce Ministry called the new tariffs a "serious violation of the consensus reached by the two countries' leaders in Osaka." At the June G20 meeting in Osaka, American and Chinese officials had agreed to a cease-fire in the trade war.”

The farmers brief glimmer of hope? Gone!

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/economy/china-us-agriculture/index.html

“The trade conflict has reached a new level of seriousness that will be difficult to reverse. The risk is that the trade war is approaching the point where it causes a severe economic slowdown or even a recession.

By digging into their positions, both the United States and China increase the risk of breaking a economy that is already starting to crack. Each round of escalation gets them closer to a recession — and to a point of no return.”

Many of us here agree China is willing to let its citizens take it in the ass than to give in any further to this petulant child.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/05/economy/trade-war-china-yuan/index.html

China just retaliated. Dropped their currency to historic lows and halted all agri imports from the states. We need more air and missile defense.

 

[hotrodharley]

China just retaliated. Dropped their currency to historic lows and halted all agri imports from the states. We need more air and missile defense.

We’ve got 2 brand new F35 squadrons being formed down there that are headed for Alaska starting next April. Brand new upgraded radars at Clear AFB here as well. A safe bet to believe they’d strike here for every reason. Especially if Russia becomes involved.

 

[abandonconflict]

We’ve got 2 brand new F35 squadrons being formed down there that are headed for Alaska starting next April. Brand new upgraded radars at Clear AFB here as well. A safe bet to believe they’d strike here for every reason. Especially if Russia becomes involved.

Yeah I agree that they will want that water way for sure as a high priority especially to give Russian arctic assets access to the Pacific. Guam will be our bulwark on the second island chain and I'm sure the will want to do something about that too. I'd be really leary of them building anything around Mindanao.

 

[doublejj]

China formally adds Tesla Gigafactory 3 area to Shanghai’s Free-Trade Zone...

BySimon Alvarez
Posted on August 6, 2019


The Chinese government has stated that it is formally expanding Shanghai’s Free-Trade Zone (FTZ) to include the Lingang area, which hosts the site of Tesla’s Gigafactory 3. The update comes amidst a set of new tax incentives and import duty exemptions, which are being rolled out amid China’s continued trade tensions with the United States.
https://www.teslarati.com/china-adds-tesla-gigafactory-3-shanghai-free-trade-zone/

 

[abandonconflict]

China formally adds Tesla Gigafactory 3 area to Shanghai’s Free-Trade Zone...

BySimon Alvarez
Posted on August 6, 2019


The Chinese government has stated that it is formally expanding Shanghai’s Free-Trade Zone (FTZ) to include the Lingang area, which hosts the site of Tesla’s Gigafactory 3. The update comes amidst a set of new tax incentives and import duty exemptions, which are being rolled out amid China’s continued trade tensions with the United States.
https://www.teslarati.com/china-adds-tesla-gigafactory-3-shanghai-free-trade-zone/

So now they will take all of Tesla's secrets and intellectual property. We've seen this before with Kawasaki heavies. The Japanese invented the high speed rail tech that China is so proud of but made the mistake of trusting the Chinese to respect intellectual property. In short order the Chinese knock offs drove Kawasaki to abandon its efforts in the Chinese market. The Chinese reacted to this by competing internationally. Now, Kawasaki can't get a contract anywhere to build the trains they invented.

Say goodbye to Tesla.

 

[hotrodharley]

So now they will take all of Tesla's secrets and intellectual property. We've seen this before with Kawasaki heavies. The Japanese invented the high speed rail tech that China is so proud of but made the mistake of trusting the Chinese to respect intellectual property. In short order the Chinese knock offs drove Kawasaki to abandon its efforts in the Chinese market. The Chinese reacted to this by competing internationally. Now, Kawasaki can't get a contract anywhere to build the trains they invented.

Say goodbye to Tesla.

Corporate greed is greatly responsible for getting itself fucked. Obviously very quick to agree to whatever for what originally was cheap labor and then a huge market itself. GM sells more cars there than the rest of the world combined I believe. Not sticking up for the Chinese at all. They’re out to own the world. I am truly interested in just how this loss of intellectual property rights started. Was it voluntary? Or was this all industrial espionage that couldn’t be stopped or what? I do know that if the Chinese government is not complicit itself it sure turns a blind eye to counterfeiting goods from sunglasses to microphones. Perfumes and designer handbags to knockoffs of many expensive design houses.

I guess what I’m seeing and saying is the Chinese saw the blatant corporate greed from afar and studied how to take advantage of us by using this knowledge to lure in fish.

 

[abandonconflict]

Corporate greed is greatly responsible for getting itself fucked. Obviously very quick to agree to whatever for what originally was cheap labor and then a huge market itself. GM sells more cars there than the rest of the world combined I believe. Not sticking up for the Chinese at all. They’re out to own the world. I am truly interested in just how this loss of intellectual property rights started. Was it voluntary? Or was this all industrial espionage that couldn’t be stopped or what? I do know that if the Chinese government is not complicit itself it sure turns a blind eye to counterfeiting goods from sunglasses to microphones. Perfumes and designer handbags to knockoffs of many expensive design houses.

I guess what I’m seeing and saying is the Chinese saw the blatant corporate greed from afar and studied how to take advantage of us by using this knowledge to lure in fish.

The Chinese say it started with the British Empire stealing seeds and secrets pertinent to what was a China-dominated global tea trade more than four and a half centuries ago. This is probably true, but that China was Ming and not communist and that British Empire was not American.

This very same mind-set is at play presently regarding the Opium Wars vs China today flooding the US with fentanyl which kills tens of thousands of Americans per year.

 

[hotrodharley]

The Chinese say it started with the British Empire stealing seeds and secrets pertinent to what was a China-dominated global tea trade more than four and a half centuries ago. This is probably true, but that China was Ming and not communist and that British Empire was not American.

This very same mind-set is at play today regarding the Opium Wars vs China today flooding the US with fentanyl which kills tens of thousands of Americans per year.

Like us ruining the Indians with cheap rotgut whiskey.

 

[abandonconflict]

Like us ruining the Indians with cheap rotgut whiskey.

There is no disputing that the US has caused great harm to many. Nonetheless, we're under attack.

 

[hotrodharley]

There is no disputing that the US has caused great harm to many. Nonetheless, we're under attack.

Understood. I wish we’d catch on and stop inviting it. We’ve allowed ourselves to become financial hostages to several countries with far different interests than our own.

 

[abandonconflict]

Understood. I wish we’d catch on and stop inviting it. We’ve allowed ourselves to become financial hostages to several countries with far different interests than our own.

We have some allies too. Especially in Asia where most countries are more accustomed to the types of tactics that are typical of the CCP. That's something that I think a lot of people don't get. When I first started teaching scuba in the Caribbean, I would come across many European travelers who had already been exposed to so much anti US sentiment that I would often feel as though I was prejudged based on just being American. I always appreciated Israeli travelers for just accepting an American so easily. Not all Europeans were this way and things were certainly worse in this regard a few years ago than they are now. My Spanish certainly endeared me to many European travelers. I never had too much trouble getting along with Latinos. Son mi gente.

When I started working in Asia I expected it to be an uphill battle to be the cool American. Not so at all. I had a Chinese couple who I guided in Boracay and they had 12 dives total between the two of them and what I'd estimate at about $8,000 worth of diving gear. On the first dive we did I showed them macro life that is really hard to spot and took good photos of them. As we were ascending the girl dropped her gopro and I got them on the boat and went back down for it and actually found it. The guy gave me a huge tip of 6,000 philippine pesos. He must have told half of China because I started getting people asking for me by name, even people who couldn't speak English, Spanish or Nihongo.

That was why I started hearing so much criticism of the Chinese. It was something that I would hear in just about every context. When the subject was public etiquette, damaging wildlife, rude behavior, politics, island economics whatever. One Singaporean woman said that she saw her country as having a lot in common with Israel because of the bullying by the CCP. I found them to be everything negative that people have long said about Americans.

I think it comes as quite a surprise to many even here that I would end up being such a hardliner on the CCP but it follows naturally from my experiences of the last few years. When you hear Vietnamese people say they hope the US helps repel the PLA and Chinese militia (hundreds of fishing boats designed for ramming that swarm Philippine and Vietnamese fishing spots but catch few fish) it really comes as a surprise.

Asia has understood this for quite a long time actually. China has become very belligerent. Chinese travelers can be quite abusive but their money seems to give them an entitled attitude. Some of them are just like any other person. Some of them, I even admire. I don't admire their government.

 

[hotrodharley]

We have some allies too. Especially in Asia where most countries are more accustomed to the types of tactics that are typical of the CCP. That's something that I think a lot of people don't get. When I first started teaching scuba in the Caribbean, I would come across many European travelers who had already been exposed to so much anti US sentiment that I would often feel as though I was prejudged based on just being American. I always appreciated Israeli travelers for just accepting an American so easily. Not all Europeans were this way and things were certainly worse in this regard a few years ago than they are now. My Spanish certainly endeared me to many European travelers. I never had too much trouble getting along with Latinos. Son mi gente.

When I started working in Asia I expected it to be an uphill battle to be the cool American. Not so at all. I had a Chinese couple who I guided in Boracay and they had 12 dives total between the two of them and what I'd estimate at about $8,000 worth of diving gear. On the first dive we did I showed them macro life that is really hard to spot and took good photos of them. As we were ascending the girl dropped her gopro and I got them on the boat and went back down for it and actually found it. The guy gave me a huge tip of 6,000 philippine pesos. He must have told half of China because I started getting people asking for me by name, even people who couldn't speak English, Spanish or Nihongo.

That was why I started hearing so much criticism of the Chinese. It was something that I would hear in just about every context. When the subject was public etiquette, damaging wildlife, rude behavior, politics, island economics whatever. One Singaporean woman said that she saw her country as having a lot in common with Israel because of the bullying by the CCP. I found them to be everything negative that people have long said about Americans.

I think it comes as quite a surprise to many even here that I would end up being such a hardliner on the CCP but it follows naturally from my experiences of the last few years. When you hear Vietnamese people say they hope the US helps repel the PLA and Chinese militia (hundreds of fishing boats designed for ramming that swarm Philippine and Vietnamese fishing spots but catch few fish) it really comes as a surprise.

Asia has understood this for quite a long time actually. China has become very belligerent. Chinese travelers can be quite abusive but their money seems to give them an entitled attitude. Some of them are just like any other person. Some of them, I even admire. I don't admire their government.

Pretty much how many people around the world see us and feel about our government.