Manifold 1st time grower near flip, need help

C

CannaCountry

Well-Known Member
ComfortCreator said:
Im straight organic, no nutes added. So flushing is a last ditch as I would drain the nutrients it will use later.

No way I expected you guys to read the whole thread. I think though the ideas are all correct. It simply needs mag and maybe sulfur to balance out an increased demand due to K.

I agree on 6.5ph water.
I agree on 1tsp epsom salts.
Im feeling positive about this.
I hope it works!

And all comments are greatly appreciated!
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So your logic leads you to one road...foliar spray with Epsom. 1. You won't be doing anything to your existing soil which you suspect may have a bit more of one thing or another in it which is causing you issues. 2. If it is an Mg shortage, which I would agree with, your plants will respond immediately. 3. If it's not an Mg issue, your plants won't change, but you didn't screw anything up in finding out, and then you can look at other things.

Mg shortages are common place when it comes to cannabis...like day and night. Sulfur shortages are not so much, and when they do occur, it's generally a result of pH or too much of something else that's locking out the sulfur, but in the end it's less common place, like a day without sunlight or all darkness; it occurs but not often and not on any set of averages.

One more thing. Your desire to learn and study what you're doing is evident. With that sort of approach, events like this will be your opportunity to learn and you'll be the grower you desire to be. This has been an interesting thread, so kudos to your detailed replies, open approach and all the comments left...in the end we all benefit and learn new things. I know I do. Good luck friend.
 
A

All-in

Member
ComfortCreator said:
Im wondering if fungus gnats could be my cause of deficiencies?

Ive sprayed the top of the soil immediately after each watering with some neem oil spray, and use the sticky cards. I know i still have some, but it seems limited and few appear on the leaves, but i do catch many each week on the cards. I dont mind managing them this way, but wondered if there is an organic solution to getting rid of them once and for all?

I have:
Natria Neem oul concentrate (used as soil topical spray after most waterings, not a lot but cover the soil. No leaves as i am 24 0 and have no leaf damage)
Monterey Garden Insect Spray - never used
Diatomaceous Earth - never used

My soil mix has neem cake and crab meal bit obv that doesnt stop them completely.

I have 6 sticky cards out at the moment, all have some say 20 to 30 each, which is def a weeks worth or maybe even a half a weeks worth.

Im not in a hurry to do anything here but thinking out loud...if theres an oeganic solution i could try that wouldn't mess things up worse i would be more than willing to try it.

Things still looking pretty good so far after defol and watering this afternoon.

Cc
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Im new to this to and also had a serious fungus gnat issue. This was most likely due to the fact that I grind up various different manures into a powder and ad to my soil. I used 3% peroxide and water. 1 part peroxide 4 parts water. I did this for one watering but also added 1tbsp black strap molasses. This takes care of all the eggs. I then directed a small fan right across the top of my planters. Adults cant fly well and wont land in the plants. I also added a mix of apple cider vinigar and a few drops of dawn in a small bowl on the floor to attract the adults. Some ppl will say the peroxide kills all the beneficial bacteria. It may do this in the top 1-2" but H2O2 is very unstable and loses the extra oxygen very quickly. Plus I just watered with Compost tea the feeding and put more good bug back. I would love to see other opinions on using H2O2 as I am still on the fence with this. Ive done this 2 feedings through out the grow and never seen any negative reaction from my girls.
 

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ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
CannaCountry said:
So your logic leads you to one road...foliar spray with Epsom. 1. You won't be doing anything to your existing soil which you suspect may have a bit more of one thing or another in it which is causing you issues. 2. If it is an Mg shortage, which I would agree with, your plants will respond immediately. 3. If it's not an Mg issue, your plants won't change, but you didn't screw anything up in finding out, and then you can look at other things.

Mg shortages are common place when it comes to cannabis...like day and night. Sulfur shortages are not so much, and when they do occur, it's generally a result of pH or too much of something else that's locking out the sulfur, but in the end it's less common place, like a day without sunlight or all darkness; it occurs but not often and not on any set of averages.

One more thing. Your desire to learn and study what you're doing is evident. With that sort of approach, events like this will be your opportunity to learn and you'll be the grower you desire to be. This has been an interesting thread, so kudos to your detailed replies, open approach and all the comments left...in the end we all benefit and learn new things. I know I do. Good luck friend.
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Thank you CannaCountry. I was way too loose with terminology. I set this up to be a no add grow, optimally. I have found epsom salt and calmag+ to help for sure. I will add a little of a nute to help the recovery for sure. This is "mostly organic", if u will. I went this way so it would be easy....lol.

A big part was airflow and temperature. With bright lights the plants will keep up but do seem to like it warmer and want more than a light breeze as is recomended on many sites.
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
All-in said:
Im new to this to and also had a serious fungus gnat issue. This was most likely due to the fact that I grind up various different manures into a powder and ad to my soil. I used 3% peroxide and water. 1 part peroxide 4 parts water. I did this for one watering but also added 1tbsp black strap molasses. This takes care of all the eggs. I then directed a small fan right across the top of my planters. Adults cant fly well and wont land in the plants. I also added a mix of apple cider vinigar and a few drops of dawn in a small bowl on the floor to attract the adults. Some ppl will say the peroxide kills all the beneficial bacteria. It may do this in the top 1-2" but H2O2 is very unstable and loses the extra oxygen very quickly. Plus I just watered with Compost tea the feeding and put more good bug back. I would love to see other opinions on using H2O2 as I am still on the fence with this. Ive done this 2 feedings through out the grow and never seen any negative reaction from my girls.
Click to expand...
I have been using a Neem oil spray only to drench the top of the soil a bit. Combined with sticky cards it works well.
 
WillieP

WillieP

Well-Known Member
CC,
I just wanted to drop a note of encouragement.
I have just read this thread and have enjoyed it.
You initially chose a path that was intended to be a simple one, and has been anything but.
My father used to say "you've had a tough row to hoe".
But you have stayed positive, and maintained an excellent attitude all the while.
As mentioned above, your willingness to do the research, and your desire to learn will continue to make you a better grower.
I would also like to commend JD and TC, along with all the others, for the support they have given you, it's nice to see that there are folks willing to help a inexperienced grower out. (some of the threads on here are full of spitefulness and ugliness, and are no help to anyone)

For full disclosure: I am a complete NOOB, without a single grow under my belt. Where I live will be legal Jan 1. Looking forward to getting started.

I hope your grow continues to improve, and you can ride that horse to the finish line.
Cheers,
WillieP
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
WillieP said:
CC,
I just wanted to drop a note of encouragement.
I have just read this thread and have enjoyed it.
You initially chose a path that was intended to be a simple one, and has been anything but.
My father used to say "you've had a tough row to hoe".
But you have stayed positive, and maintained an excellent attitude all the while.
As mentioned above, your willingness to do the research, and your desire to learn will continue to make you a better grower.
I would also like to commend JD and TC, along with all the others, for the support they have given you, it's nice to see that there are folks willing to help a inexperienced grower out. (some of the threads on here are full of spitefulness and ugliness, and are no help to anyone)

For full disclosure: I am a complete NOOB, without a single grow under my belt. Where I live will be legal Jan 1. Looking forward to getting started.

I hope your grow continues to improve, and you can ride that horse to the finish line.
Cheers,
WillieP
Click to expand...
Thanks WillieP. Great to have you in the thread and thank you for the read and kind words. I expected challenges and feel it has gone great so far. When it looked like problems I could not solve I asked for help and was lucky to get some.

As you could see some advice was on track, other parts not as much. But the thoughts and ideas help a lot. The best thing you can and will do is be with the plants and just observe. All the ideas I have had came from reading and then looking at my setup and adjusting it as I see what makes sense.

Things are said like, "give your plants an environment you would be comfortable in" sounds so simple yet the depth of that wisdom goes very deep. It was watching them, feeling the lights, the airflow...seeing the leaves stack and sway around that many of my fixes and improvements came from.

It has been written by solid aurhorities that photosynthesis occurs in a broad range of temperatures where in that range the potential max amount based upon temp doesnt vary a lot. This led me to think then that light levels, temps and humidity maybe all have a lot of leeway. Maybe so as individual elements...but in the actual grow it doesnt work that way. For example TC told me to try higher temps...yet that wont help photosynthesis. BUT it does affect transpiration, nutrient and water uptake. If you ponder this (hopefully while viewing your plants) you then can realize that everything is truly connected. I may want to blast the plants with a lot of light...but doing so without proper airflow, temperature and humidity all can negatively affect the outcome. If it has a ton of light to photosynthesize chlorophyll, it can't do it if its too cold...or if it lacks enough water and nutrients. Why are plants fading when the light level, temp, humidity, water supply and airflow are all in "acceptable" ranges? Because those elements are correlated. Increase your lights to a high level...they need potentially different inputs...more water, more nutes, more airflow...how much...too much....too little, that is where experience would help...but you are left with instincts and if you are willing to put your mistakes out there...by asking.

Im far from finished here and have little idea what to expect going forward. But I have really enjoyed the process, especially the stress and concern that things are off track.

I cannot say how many times I wanted to change something without really knowing I should. I very rarily did that...and am thankful for it.
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
So a few pics and an update....

All the plants continue to improve. Timing was very good as I see all the stretching and cant stop thinking how important airflow is. I reallly pounded the fungus gnats when I got the pressure sprayer to output more volume (soil spray only). They are mostly gone.

My watering is way better. I checked every plant 4 ways and wrote it down:
Use moisture meter around rootball
Use meter to measure bottom of pot
Lift the pot and rate it light med or heavy
Finger test is it dry to knuckle.or 2 knuckles?

That seems like a lot but takes less than a minute. And not only did it.help.a lot...i barely watered a few last watering. The process caused me to check last night on only 2 days between watering (as opposed to a typical 3 days)...and they all needed watering. So the results I see now is no wilting even for a short bit after watering. Consistent steady improvements in color.

The smaller plants may need another week to green up fully. The larger ones seem to have dialed in well.
 

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ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
For airflow, most guides talk about a very gentle breeze, lightly rustling the leaves. They warn that constant fan on a spot i.e. blows right at plant is bad. But they undersell airflow a lot. It needs to be more than a gentle breeze, it needs to stronger than that but temporary...i.e. rotating fans.

Easy to setup an exhaust system and pretty easy to set up fans. But knowing how important is is only comes from "doing".

Noobs dont believe me? Try a fan on your plants with a good breeze. You can actually see the leaves green up and wake up and stand up when you do.

Oil filled heater on low in a corner is a killer solution to temp problems. Much better than a forced air solution imo.
 
JohnDee

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
ComfortCreator said:
For airflow, most guides talk about a very gentle breeze, lightly rustling the leaves. They warn that constant fan on a spot i.e. blows right at plant is bad. But they undersell airflow a lot. It needs to be more than a gentle breeze, it needs to stronger than that but temporary...i.e. rotating fans.
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Hey CC,
Glad plants are back on track. Nice and green. That's the green I like on my plants. Sounds like your watering approach has improved. New O2 to the roots is always a good thing.

I'm certainly with you on the fan thing. Without enough air movement...a micro air laying thing can happen with the air directly in contact with leaves. All the CO2 gets used up and fresh air is needed...to get more CO2 to the leaf surface. So I use several fans on 24h.
Cheers,
JD
 
C

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
Ok its been 3 months since i posted here.

First i would like to thank Thundercat, JohnDee, Renfro, Dr Who, .smoke, and everybody else who helped.

Mid flower i topdressed the plants with the original soil which sustained them through flowering.

I needed more N which will be added next time. It did not affect yield.

Advice that created results --
> Temps low 80s with LEDs esp in Winter when floors are cold
> Lots of light. I hit 75k over most tops and 100k on a few without negative consequences. Increasing light is easy for a healthy plant.
> Airflow. Good G-- dont forget this. Get fans going and exhaust running and keep lights from overheating the canopy.
> HLG quantum boards are incredible. Very cool below 50% max power, very hot above 75% max power. Use it in Winter, lose it in Summer.
> Have an anchor site or book to guide you. I used GWE as my bible and it is incredible what came from the work. I did everything exactly by the book...mostly

> On a 10 scale, my effort was a 10. Not my result, but my effort. I busted my a-- and by the end didn't get a lot of sleep...work, family, and this hobby, wow. 2 or 3 hours some nights. Do the work...get the results.
> Get advice from a small team. Thank you to my coaches!

Quality of result -- Two 30 year flower consumers both told me it was in the top 10 of anything they have ever gotten, a 9 or 10 depending on the scale used. Incredibly potent, every hit continues to elevate the buzz regardless of how much consumed.

Wattage used -- 900 watts LED , 2.5 ER
Space used -- 25 sqft

Quantity -- >> just over 1500 grams, dried and cured <<

Longest flower time -- 100 days
Longest total time -- 164 days

Round 2 will begin soon....
 
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