Bernie Sanders 2020

[DIY-HP-LED]

When Trump's recession hits, we need an able leader to see us through the crisis, not a do-nothing and inept leader like Trump or Bernie.

If they needed another bail out to save the country Bernie could get it from the Public, Trump not so much, if he even gave a fuck. If it was a repeat of 2008, you'll own the 6 largest banks in America and they will be broken up and sold off, 70% of the wealth of the 1% is in those banks, they will howl and dance.

 

[Padawanbater2]

What is happening, though is Bernie-bots turn to personal attacks rather than discuss the campaign.

Complete projection. You and your friends can't respond to a single valid point without levying a personal attack, there are dozens of pages on this forum that backs that up

 

[Fogdog]

Complete projection. You and your friends can't respond to a single valid point without levying a personal attack, there are dozens of pages on this forum that backs that up

Then let us stick to facts, shall we? I'm talking about posts like this one:

And you're one of the useful idiots helping them achieve it

That's pretty much the perfect example of what I was referring to when I said your kind descend to personal attacks whenever a factual argument against your cult leader is put forward.

Bernie's healthcare bill would strip more than 100 million people from health care plans that they like for a healthcare promise that is embodied in Bernie's healthcare bill. When one looks at his bill, yes, it does end private insurance, but no, it does not specify how it will be paid for. Bernie himself says the he doesn't know how it will be paid for. You even posted a link to his white paper on this same subject. He promises that the whole thing will be paid for by billionaires but it's just a promise. No substance. This is why many people including myself reject him.

I ask you, if his plan is so great, why hasn't he put it down in black and white? Why not accept a different path toward universal single payer health care by offering Medicare as an alternative to private insurance and allow people to decide for themselves which plan they want? Convince me. I'm willing to read what you say.

 

[Padawanbater2]

How many lies can you regurgitate in one post? Let's count..

Bernie's healthcare bill would strip more than 100 million people from health care plans that they like for a healthcare promise that is embodied in Bernie's healcare bill.

Sanders' plan doesn't take away anyone's healthcare, it provides healthcare for everyone, hence "Medicare for All"

When one looks at his bill, yes, it does end private insurance

It does not end private insurance, it ends duplicate insurance

"SEC. 107. PROHIBITION AGAINST DUPLICATING COVERAGE.

(a) In General.—Beginning on the effective date described in section 106(a), it shall be unlawful for—

(1) a private health insurer to sell health insurance coverage that duplicates the benefits provided under this Act; or

(2) an employer to provide benefits for an employee, former employee, or the dependents of an employee or former employee that duplicate the benefits provided under this Act."

but no, it does not specify how it will be paid for.

Sanders' bill details exactly how it will be paid for

himself says the he doesn't know how it will be paid for.

No he doesn't

He promises that the whole thing will be paid for by billionaires but it's just a promise. No substance.

The substance is in his tax policy that makes corporations and billionaires pay their fair share

I ask you, if his plan is so great, why hasn't he put it down in black and white?

He has; S. 1129

Why not accept a different path toward universal single payer health care by offering Medicare as an alternative to private insurance and allow people to decide for themselves which plan they want?

Because healthy people wouldn't buy it leaving only the sick to fund it, the same reason the individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act was required

Convince me. I'm willing to read what you say.

No you're not, your mind is completely made up, there is nothing that would convince you otherwise because you're a zealot



8 lies

 

[londonfog]

Analysis of 22 more studies across the political spectrum are unanimous; single payer saves money by eliminating administration costs and lowering drug prices

So critics can repeat it'll be more expensive until they're red in the face, the reality and the success of Sanders' campaign show nobody but establishment hacks and Trump supporters believe it

Lady at my wife's church had to pay 377 dollars for a 90 day pill count of meds. Church was taking up a collection for her. Sad

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

 

[Fogdog]

How many lies can you regurgitate in one post? Let's count..

Sanders' plan doesn't take away anyone's healthcare, it provides healthcare for everyone, hence "Medicare for All"

It does not end private insurance, it ends duplicate insurance

"SEC. 107. PROHIBITION AGAINST DUPLICATING COVERAGE.

(a) In General.—Beginning on the effective date described in section 106(a), it shall be unlawful for—

(1) a private health insurer to sell health insurance coverage that duplicates the benefits provided under this Act; or

(2) an employer to provide benefits for an employee, former employee, or the dependents of an employee or former employee that duplicate the benefits provided under this Act."

Sanders' bill details exactly how it will be paid for

No he doesn't

The substance is in his tax policy that makes corporations and billionaires pay their fair share

He has; S. 1129

Because healthy people wouldn't buy it leaving only the sick to fund it, the same reason the individual mandate in the Affordable Care Act was required

No you're not, your mind is completely made up, there is nothing that would convince you otherwise because you're a zealot

View attachment 4488011

8 lies

To you, facts are lies. How Orwellian of you.

1. Sanders makes a vague and unfunded promise to provide equivalent or better healthcare for free to the user in exchange for the healthcare we have and like. His plan does not contain funding measures that state who will pay and how much. That's a fact.

2. Sanders bill outlaws any private insurance that duplicates what the federal government provides. As you point out this is a fact. You still haven't answered my question. If what Sanders promises is so great, why does he ban competition?

3. Sanders bill does not specify how it will be paid for. Sanders says so himself. (link to the full text is included in the quote cited below)

In my view, there needs to be vigorous debate as to the best way to finance our Medicare for All legislation

4 & 5. Regarding who will pay, in that same document, he talks about

Options to Make the Wealthy Pay Their Fair Share

This is all well and good. Soak the rich and all that. His paper is not a commitment, however, it is just a vague statement. I'm not saying it's bad, just that it's a vague promise. As he says, revenue raised over 10 years is 1.8 trillion, and the overall cost will be north of 30 trillion, so, yeah, it's not sufficient either.

6. As I said, he hasn't put the whole plan down in black and white. The bill you list is a symbolic one because it doesn't specify how it will be paid for, see facts 1-4. I do agree that he made a promise. Without funding measures it is only half done and therefore a vague promise.

7. Forcing healthy people into from plans they like into they ones don't want to pay for is exactly my point when I say Bernie's plan is a gift to Republicans. Also gift to Putin, indirectly. Read what @abandonconflict has said on this subject. Try to listen and reason with him rather than simply react.

8. I have listed my reasons and am willing to continue to discuss your responses. Please be more factual in your next response.

 

[schuylaar]

It's not a win for all.

How do those people who don't want Bernie and his gun backed edicts forcing them to participate in his gun backed ideas win, if they prefer to simply be left alone?

After you receive your M4A card you burn it..once your balls are falling off from prostate cancer you can shake your fist at a pic of President Sanders..you are still charged same tax base as everyone else.

 

[schuylaar]

Lady at my wife's church had to pay 377 dollars for a 90 day pill count of meds. Church was taking up a collection for her. Sad

Is that it?

Have the Mrs download "GoodRX" and I bet those pills are a lot less expensive just using a different code I've saved a ton of money using that CVS tried to charge me $60 and it was on GoodRx for $30. fvckers.

 

[londonfog]

Is that it?

Have the Mrs download "GoodRX" and I bet those pills are a lot less expensive just using a different code I've saved a ton of money using that CVS tried to charge me $60 and it was on GoodRx for $30. fvckers.

That was with a discount... they were tier 3 meds

 

[Padawanbater2]

To you, facts are lies. How Orwellian of you.

1. Sanders makes a vague and unfunded promise to provide equivalent or better healthcare for free to the user in exchange for the healthcare we have and like. His plan does not contain funding measures that state who will pay and how much. That's a fact.

2. Sanders bill outlaws any private insurance that duplicates what the federal government provides. As you point out this is a fact. You still haven't answered my question. If what Sanders promises is so great, why does he ban competition?

3. Sanders bill does not specify how it will be paid for. Sanders says so himself. (link to the full text is included in the quote cited below)

In my view, there needs to be vigorous debate as to the best way to finance our Medicare for All legislation

4 & 5. Regarding who will pay, in that same document, he talks about

Options to Make the Wealthy Pay Their Fair Share

This is all well and good. Soak the rich and all that. His paper is not a commitment, however, it is just a vague statement. I'm not saying it's bad, just that it's a vague promise. As he says, revenue raised over 10 years is 1.8 trillion, and the overall cost will be north of 30 trillion, so, yeah, it's not sufficient either.

6. As I said, he hasn't put the whole plan down in black and white. The bill you list is a symbolic one because it doesn't specify how it will be paid for, see facts 1-4. I do agree that he made a promise. Without funding measures it is only half done and therefore a vague promise.

7. Forcing healthy people into from plans they like into they ones don't want to pay for is exactly my point when I say Bernie's plan is a gift to Republicans. Also gift to Putin, indirectly. Read what @abandonconflict has said on this subject. Try to listen and reason with him rather than simply react.

8. I have listed my reasons and am willing to continue to discuss your responses. Please be more factual in your next response.

Nobody believes some biased establishment hack on a marijuana growing forum about the system of healthcare. Peer reviewed published study after study proves I'm right, you're wrong, so do the votes and the success of Sanders' campaign. Buckle up for Super Tuesday, if Biden loses South Carolina, Sanders is going to the White House, and there's nothing you can do about it

 

[Padawanbater2]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232060578115530760

Establishment hack argument: "Sanders wants to eliminate thousands of good paying coal mining jobs! Why is he against job creation?!"

 

[Padawanbater2]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232045657814228992

 

[Fogdog]

Nobody believes some biased establishment hack on a marijuana growing forum about the system of healthcare. Peer reviewed published study after study proves I'm right, you're wrong, so do the votes and the success of Sanders' campaign. Buckle up for Super Tuesday, if Biden loses South Carolina, Sanders is going to the White House, and there's nothing you can do about it

Translation: I don't believe facts.

I've listed facts behind my assertion that Bernie's healthcare bill is a loser and you, instead of trying to reason with with me using facts and superior logic, you just fell back into your earlier personal attacks. You are weak, Pad. Exactly as I said earlier. Your kind have no real understanding of what's going on so you just do what you leader says and get all emotional about people who aren't deceived.

Super Tuesday, baby. March 3

I'm looking forward to it. Four years ago, Bernie fell from front runner to loser on that day and you never stopped crying.

Unlike you, I honor the will of the majority. If Bernie gets enough delegates to win the nomination then I'll accept it. If, as I expect will happen, Bernie goes into the convention with much less than a majority, he loses. Democrats don't want him. He's not a good candidate going into the fall. Biden might lose and I won't cry.

My prediction for Super Tuesday: Bernie gets about 25% of the vote. 75% of Democrats don't want him. More revealing: Bernie gets less than 30% of the black vote.

I don't care about Biden. He might do well and he might not. My candidate, Elizabeth Warren, is probably going to get around 10% of the vote. Buttigieg is going to do OK but place second to Bernie.

 

[Fogdog]

I'm not the only one who questions the bumbling attitude Sanders has about his plans for his administration and how Trump will use his vague belief driven rhetoric against him. CNN isn't exactly hostile to the left and they see the same problems:

Bernie Sanders' disastrous answer on '60 Minutes'

Bernie Sanders, the clear front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, was asked over the weekend how much his various plans would cost if implemented. He didn't know.

www.cnn.com

Bernie Sanders' disastrous answer on '60 Minutes'

Cooper: Do you know how all -- how much though? I mean, do you have a price tag for -- for all of this?
Sanders: We do. I mean, you know, and -- and-- the price tag is -- it will be substantially less than letting the current system go. I think it's about $30 trillion.
Cooper: That's just for "Medicare for All," you're talking about?
Sanders: That's just "Medicare for All," yes.
Cooper: Do you have -- a price tag for all of these things?
Sanders: No, I don't. We try to -- no, you mentioned making public colleges and universities tuition free and canceling all student debt, that's correct. That's what I want to do. We pay for that through a modest tax on Wall Street speculation.


What? So, Sanders not only a) isn't sure how much all of his proposals would cost but also b) isn't able to say how he would pay for these programs. That strikes me as a potential weak spot if/when Sanders winds up as the Democratic nominee against President Donald Trump.

But Sanders once did admit the harsh reality of how his plans would be paid for during a debate over the summer. Here's the exchange between Sanders and NBC's Savannah Guthrie (bolding is mine):

Guthrie: Will you raise taxes for the middle class in a Sanders administration?
Sanders: People who have health care under "Medicare for All" will have no premiums, no deductibles, no copayments, no out of pocket expenses. Yes, they will pay more in taxes, but less in health care for what they get.

So, here's what we now know about Sanders' plans for America:
1) He isn't sure how much they will cost.
2) He isn't totally sure how he will pay for them.
3) It's likely they will be paid for by an increase in taxes on the middle class.

Whoo boy. Maybe Sanders is right that America is ready for a fundamental reorienting of how we value ourselves, our society and our money. But if he's not -- and this election winds up being like virtually every other election in which people vote on who is going to let them keep more of their money -- then Sanders (and Democrats by extension) have a big problem.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

My prediction for Super Tuesday: Bernie gets about 25% of the vote. 75% of Democrats don't want him. More revealing: Bernie gets less than 30% of the black vote.

Remember that thing about prophets... Foggy Wizard!

 

[Fogdog]

Remember that thing about prophets... Foggy Wizard!

I called it a prediction. And yep, I'm certain I'll be wrong. All that remains to be seen on March 3 is how wrong I was. It would be boring to fiddle around with vague statements. If there is one thing that can be said for @Padawanbater2 is he makes very bold proclamations. Of course when he's proven wrong he blames others but at least he puts it out there for us to laugh at.

 

[Padawanbater2]

CNN

Analyzed by the same proven political establishment hack, Chris Cillizza

You can only cite establishment hacks to try to prove your establishment hack narrative. They've been wrong the entire time, which is why you will continue to be wrong, and why Sanders is going to win

 

[Rob Roy]

Nobody believes some biased establishment hack on a marijuana growing forum about the system of healthcare. Peer reviewed published study after study proves I'm right, you're wrong, so do the votes and the success of Sanders' campaign. Buckle up for Super Tuesday, if Biden loses South Carolina, Sanders is going to the White House, and there's nothing you can do about it

Going to the Whitehouse?!

Then Comrade Bernie will have FOUR houses !

 

[UncleBuck]

Analyzed by the same proven political establishment hack, Chris Cillizza

You can only cite establishment hacks to try to prove your establishment hack narrative. They've been wrong the entire time, which is why you will continue to be wrong, and why Sanders is going to win

you were just crying about personal attacks but that’s all you’re doing