Lockdowns don't work.

[DIY-HP-LED]

This should make convalescent plasma therapy easier to pull off and reopening the economy less of a pain. Healthcare workers can be screened and those who test positive can be assigned to work with covid-19 patients, reducing the risk to the unexposed. It will also make it easier to see how far the illness has progressed in an area.

They can also use it to cross check all those shitty serological tests they approved and to get rid of them.

FDA approves coronavirus antibody test that boasts near-perfect accuracy

The Food and Drug Administration gave emergency approval to a COVID-19 antibody test that boasts near-perfect accuracy, the company said Sunday. Swiss drugmaker Roche said the new test, which deter…

nypost.com

FDA approves coronavirus antibody test that boasts near-perfect accuracy

The Food and Drug Administration gave emergency approval to a COVID-19 antibody test that boasts near-perfect accuracy, the company said Sunday.

Swiss drugmaker Roche said the new test, which determines whether someone had a past infection, has proven 100% accurate at detecting antibodies in the blood and 99.8% accurate at ruling out the presence of them.

The company said the test requires intravenous blood draws, with higher accuracy than finger-prick tests.

“If you take blood from a finger prick, you will never be able to achieve the same level of specificity that you will achieve … when you take blood from the vein,” Thomas Schinecker, the company’s head of diagnostics, said.

“You have to have very, very high specificity. Even 0.1% or 0.2% makes a difference.”

Schinecker said the tests are an important step in determining whether someone may have immunity, but acknowledged that more research is required to determine whether antibodies protect people from being reinfected.

“Since this virus is not well known, one can hypothesize, but the proof will take longer,” Schinecker said. “Testing these people … is key to seeing whether or not people really have developed immunity.”

 

[Budley Doright]

One irritating aspect of epidemiology science denial is how they diminish the value of people's lives.

I hear “herd immunity” used a lot, but I’m also hearing “cull the herd” more and more from the “lock downs don’t work” cult. Even if not spoken of directly the undertone of letting the weak die is there. It’s been referred to in this very thread........sad. I know I would feel pretty powerless if I hadn’t prepared financially for a few months of lost income. I also know it’s hard and lots can’t do it even if they wanted, but to callously promote the death of some to make up for it is just fucked up. As for the concerns of a pending famine due to the virus lockdown, yes it is but so is 70% of the population getting sick and a large percentage too sick to work, and what medical care they may have had wiped out. And now I’m going to get fall down drunk ..... take out was delicious .

 

[Rob Roy]

we are.....

 

[Fogdog]

I hear “herd immunity” used a lot, but I’m also hearing “cull the herd” more and more from the “lock downs don’t work” cult. Even if not spoken of directly the undertone of letting the weak die is there. It’s been referred to in this very thread........sad. I know I would feel pretty powerless if I hadn’t prepared financially for a few months of lost income. I also know it’s hard and lots can’t do it even if they wanted, but to callously promote the death of some to make up for it is just fucked up. As for the concerns of a pending famine due to the virus lockdown, yes it is but so is 70% of the population getting sick and a large percentage too sick to work, and what medical care they may have had wiped out. And now I’m going to get fall down drunk ..... take out was delicious .

I found it absolutely fitting that the only people who have recently shown up to defend the anti-science embodied in this therad were nutters. One was a flat earther, another was a Jewish Conspiracy advocate.

These guys are well represented on Fox. Speaking of callous disregard for the value of the lives of others,

Bill O'Reilly: Many of those dying from coronavirus 'were on their last legs anyway'
Former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly sparked backlash online this week for saying that many of those who have died from the coronavirus “were on their last legs anyway.”

O’Reilly made the remark Wednesday during an appearance on Fox News host Sean Hannity’s radio program shortly after discussing lowered projections for coronavirus deaths in the U.S.

“Many people who are dying, both here and around the world, were on their last legs anyway," O'Reilly said. "And I don’t want to sound callous about that."

It's been said in this thread too. Fuck 'em. As shown by responses here, it's a losing proposition with the larger public. The majority of the public know and value their elders. We care but we aren't as vocal as narcissists who haven't the capacity for empathy or compassion. I mean, the kind of speech given by AC on this subject isn't different from this guy:

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I found it absolutely fitting that the only people who have recently shown up to defend the anti-science embodied in this therad were nutters. One was a flat earther, another was a Jewish Conspiracy advocate.

These guys are well represented on Fox. Speaking of callous disregard for the value of the lives of others,

Bill O'Reilly: Many of those dying from coronavirus 'were on their last legs anyway'
Former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly sparked backlash online this week for saying that many of those who have died from the coronavirus “were on their last legs anyway.”

O’Reilly made the remark Wednesday during an appearance on Fox News host Sean Hannity’s radio program shortly after discussing lowered projections for coronavirus deaths in the U.S.

“Many people who are dying, both here and around the world, were on their last legs anyway," O'Reilly said. "And I don’t want to sound callous about that."

It's been said in this thread too. Fuck 'em. As shown by responses here, it's a losing proposition with the larger public. The majority of the public know and value their elders. We care but we aren't as vocal as narcissists who haven't the capacity for empathy or compassion. I mean, the kind of speech given by AC on this subject isn't different from this guy:

View attachment 4554303

If you enter into a debate in a morally and ethically indefensible position you'll lose every time, the objective is to convince others and that is most often done through the heart. Most normal people are not gonna through their grandma under the bus to get a haircut, most people have more sense than that. To convince most people to act against their better nature you must use fear, bigotry, tribalism, hate, lies and deception.

 

[abandonconflict]

You are uninformed because you say lockdowns don't work.

You don't even know who said what, and you sure as fuck don't know what I said. Everyone who has gotten into this debate has gone from misunderstanding my argument and insisting "they work" to admitting only "they help" and before you've even had a reply from me, you've done this as well.

I said that the lockdowns do not work, insofar as the curve has not flattened such that the apex is below the threshold of healthcare capacity. All of the worst outbreaks have exploded under lockdowns while all of the most successful countries have implemented no such lockdowns. You're going to now tell me that the lockdowns have saved some indeterminant number of lives, which you cannot quantify and I'm going to tell you that no evidence exists to support this claim.

You mention science, you offer no evidence.

You're stupid.

 

[abandonconflict]

Johan Giesecke is one of the world's most senior epidemiologists, yes he's Swedish, get over it.

Immunity and having the elderly die first both contribute to the ‘flattening of the curve’, not the lockdown. Deaths will automatically go down as a result of these 2 factors. ~Johan Giesecke

Swedish expert, Dr. Johan Giesecke: why lockdowns are the wrong policy [VIDEO] - Europe Reloaded

ER Editor: UnHerd gives its own bullet points of ideas from Dr. Giesecke under the video, but we’ve added a few extra of our own below. The date of this interview is April 17. Measures [...]

www.europereloaded.com

 

[jimihendrix1]

The death rate in Sweden has now risen significantly higher than many other countries in Europe, reaching more than 22 per 100,000 people, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University, controlled for population.
By contrast, Denmark has recorded just over seven deaths per 100,000 people, and both Norway and Finland less than four.
Sweden has registered 18,926 coronavirus cases and 2,274 deaths among its population of 10.3 million people.
Denmark has had 9,049 cases and 427 deaths in a population of 5.8 million, Norway 7,599 cases and 206 deaths among its 5.4 million people, and Finland 4,695 cases and 193 deaths in its population of 5.5 million.

 

[abandonconflict]

The death rate in Sweden has now risen significantly higher than many other countries in Europe, reaching more than 22 per 100,000 people, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University, controlled for population.
By contrast, Denmark has recorded just over seven deaths per 100,000 people, and both Norway and Finland less than four.
Sweden has registered 18,926 coronavirus cases and 2,274 deaths among its population of 10.3 million people.
Denmark has had 9,049 cases and 427 deaths in a population of 5.8 million, Norway 7,599 cases and 206 deaths among its 5.4 million people, and Finland 4,695 cases and 193 deaths in its population of 5.5 million.

Sweden is more than a month ahead of any of those countries in its outbreak.

 

[VILEPLUME]

 

[abandonconflict]

A new study conducted by the University of Southern California along with the LA County Department of Public Health indicates the presence of antibodies for COVID-19 in between 2.8 and 5.6% of the population of LA County, suggesting that between 221,000 and 442,000 individuals had the infection — up to 55 times more people than have been confirmed via testing.

LA COVID-19 antibody study adds further support for a higher-than-suspected infection rate | TechCrunch

A new study conducted by the University of Southern California along with the LA County Department of Public Health indicates the presence of antibodies

techcrunch.com

COVID antibody test in German town shows 15 percent infection rate
This number matters hugely because it tells us what we need to know in order to judge how deadly the virus is and also how easily it spreads. It tells us, ultimately, how useful the methods are that we are employing in order to combat the virus.

COVID antibody test in German town shows 15 percent infection rate

A team at the University of Bonn has tested a randomized sample of 1,000 residents of the German town of Gangelt and found a 15 percent infection rate

spectator.us

Coronavirus Antibodies Present In Nearly 25% Of All NYC Residents, Cuomo Says

Coronavirus Antibodies Present In Nearly 25% Of All NYC Residents, Cuomo Says; Un-PAUSE In Certain Regions Of NY Might Begin In May

Cuomo said 14.9% of those tested statewide tested positive for COVID-19 antibodies, which is up from the initial 13.9% in a previous sampling.

newyork.cbslocal.com

And look at this article about the WHO report:

WHO warns that few have developed antibodies to Covid-19
Herd immunity hopes dealt blow by report suggesting only 2%-3% of people have been infected

WHO warns that few have developed antibodies to Covid-19

Herd immunity hopes dealt blow by report suggesting only 2%-3% of people have been infected

www.theguardian.com

2-3% is fucking huge. With a doubling rate of several days, globally, one can estimate the the world is less than two months from herd immunity. 2-3% of the world were estimated by the WHO to have been infected by April 20th. That would put us well above 1 out of every 20 by now.

 

[abandonconflict]

Even going off of the Bommer and Vollmer study, which is peer reviewed, we would have had a detection rate of 9% by the end of March.

Detection rates could decrease in a growing epidemic because it gets more and more difficult to discover all infections as case numbers increase exponentially. Conversely, detection rates could increase when few new infections occur

It is demonstrable through these seroprevalence studies that infections have increased exponentially and likewise, case numbers have also increased exponentially, therefore it is sensible to determine that detection rates have decreased in a manner consistent over the same period of time.

 

[abandonconflict]

Finally, governments are desperate to reopen economies. So get fucking used to it. The lockdowns are being lifted, because they didn't fucking work and we're risking a famine on top of our pandemic.

 

[jimihendrix1]

The famine is caused because the workers are all infected, and the corporations arent doing anything to help the ones that are working. Shutdowns at the meat factories are 100% caused by worker infection

1000s of met macking workers are infected, and many have died.

And the facts are, Sweden is having an uptick of infections compared to their neighbors who have lockdowns.

Lockdowns do work. Will they eradicate the disease. Of course not, not one says they will, but they slow the rate of infection, and help the hospitals not be overwhelmed.
Expect 250,000 to die. Minimum By the end of JUNE.... Fauci say more than that will die if protocol isnt followed.


April 28, 2020
The death rate in Sweden has now risen significantly higher than many other countries in Europe, reaching more than 22 per 100,000 people, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University, controlled for population.


APRIL 23, 2020 / 3:11 PM / 10 DAYS AGO
More than 5,000 U.S. meat, food-processing workers exposed to coronavirus: union


The statistics reflect how the contagious respiratory illness has spread widely through slaughterhouses where large groups of employees often work shoulder to shoulder in difficult conditions.

Major meat processors like JBS USA [JBS.UL] and Tyson Foods Inc have indefinitely shuttered beef and pork plants due to outbreaks among workers, limiting U.S. production as demand has increased at grocery stores.

Trump push to keep meatpacking plants open comes as pork producers profit from China trade deal
PUBLISHED FRI, MAY 1 202010:36 AM EDTUPDATED FRI, MAY 1 20202:36 PM EDT
President Donald Trump’s executive order this week requiring American meatpacking plants to stay open during the coronavirus pandemic is raising new questions about United States exports of pork to China.

Since it was signed late Tuesday, the order has drawn outcry from workers rights activists and effusive praise from the meat industry. Unions said it gave plant owners a green light to ignore worker safety if it interferes with a plant’s ability to stay open and avoid liability if workers get sick or die.
President Donald Trump’s executive order this week requiring American meatpacking plants to stay open during the coronavirus pandemic is raising new questions about massive U.S. meat exports, particularly the export of pork to China.

Trump’s order was meant to prevent what meat processors have claimed is an imminent breakdown in the nation’s food supply chain, resulting from the closure of several major meat processing plants that had become hotbeds for coronavirus infections. The president invoked the Defense Production Act, a law intended for wartime usage, to designate the meatpacking industry as part of the nation’s “critical infrastructure.”

McConnell, and RUmp also want in the next congressional bill to not have meat packing corporations be held liable for worker deathhs, and for lack of PPE, and worker safety. So theyre basically wanting to use people as slaves, and they have no recourse when the get sick, or DIE.

 

[abandonconflict]

The famine is caused because the workers are all infected

No it isn't. This has been well established. This disease, by and large, is very mild in the young and healthy. Of critical cases only 1 in 5 do not have serious comorbidities such as cardio-pulomnary conditions and diabetes. Those dying are overwhelmingly the old and retired. The exceptions are in almost every case morbidly obese or have diagnosed comorbidities. Just because you keep claiming it doesn't make it so. 20% unemployment is due to the lockdown, not the disease.

Sweden is having an uptick of infections compared to their neighbors who have lockdowns.

I just explained that Sweden is at least a month farther along than its neighbors in its outbreak.

 

[jimihendrix1]

Sweden is having a LARGE uptick in infections, and are ahead of their neighbors.

I just showed you the facts that plants are closing because of worker exposure to the virus dude.

The Facts say they shut the plants down because of WORKER INFECTION.

Sweden is getting more infections, and now are surpassing their neighbors by a large percentage.

Argue with Johns Hopkins about it.

"Quote "

Johns Hopkins
The death rate in Sweden has now risen significantly higher than many other countries in Europe, reaching more than 22 per 100,000 people, according to figures from Johns Hopkins University, controlled for population.

Alarming data has shown Sweden’s approach to containing coronavirus has led to a far greater number of fatalities than their Nordic neighbours.

As a result of the spiraling numbers, the country's prime minister, Stefan Lofven, has received criticism for his government’s light-touch strategy to contain Covid-19.





April 28, 2020
Has Sweden found the best response to the coronavirus? Its death rate suggests it hasn’t.
Sweden’s coronavirus death toll is worse than America’s but better than New York City’s.

The reason for Sweden’s high death rate has to do with the government’s policies.

Following the advice of the country’s chief epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, the Swedish government chose not to impose strict lockdowns, curfews, or major border closings because the government felt it would hurt the economy and would only push the crisis further down the road.

And while experts say the vast majority of Swedes followed the government’s social distancing guidelines and voluntarily stayed home, those who continued to drink at bars and shop at stores likely spread the disease around.

The New York Times even noted what Sweden’s public health officials now admit: That “more than 26 percent of the 2 million inhabitants of Stockholm will have been infected by May 1.”

That’s still higher than New York City’s infection rate, which New York state officials estimate could be around 21.2 percent based on recent antibody testing (though these numbers are still preliminary and based on just one study).



The government has tasked their population with judging social distancing for themselves, with restaurants and businesses remaining open and no restrictions placed on how often or for what reason people decide to leave their homes.

Academics have voiced their anger at the approach, with Bo Lundback, Professor of Epidemiology at the University of Gothenburg, accusing the government of “stupidity” for not believing the epidemic would reach the country.

Other critics of the approach include Dr Cecilia Soderberg Naucler, an expert in microbial pathogenesis at the Karolinska Institute, who is bracing herself for a “catastrophe”.


“I’m a scientist, I only trust data and the data says we are heading for catastrophe,” Dr Naucler said. “We are now part of an experiment without informed consent.”

But despite the escalating numbers, polling suggests Mr Lofven retains support, having imposed restrictions on gatherings of more than 50 people, while limiting bars and restaurants to only table service.

And even though Dr Häggström admits he is “worried” about the statistical trend in Sweden, he insists the country’s unique approach is offering others an opportunity to learn.


“Regardless of whether it’s good for Sweden or not, it can be good for the world that different countries are employing different strategies which gives us the opportunity to compare,” Dr Häggström added. “If everybody does the same thing, then there’s less to learn, but, yes, I am worried.”

 

[Budley Doright]

“I just explained that Sweden is at least a month farther along than its neighbors in its outbreak.”
Please show citation

 

[abandonconflict]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Sweden Jan31

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Norway Feb27

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Denmark Feb27

Netherlands Feb27

First case of coronavirus confirmed in the Netherlands - Vanguard News

The first case of the novel coronavirus in the Netherlands was detected on Thursday, in a patient who had travelled to northern Italy.

www.vanguardngr.com

 

[abandonconflict]

I just showed you the facts that plants are closing because of worker exposure to the virus dude.

The Facts say they shut the plants down because of WORKER INFECTION.

Two meat packing plants are not the whole fucking economy and we could do with less bacon. Nobody said you have to go out and work. People want to go back to work. The plant does not have to stay closed, in fact I would be willing to bet that enough of those workers have recovered and are willing to run them hogs and get bacon back on the menu.

80% of US coronavirus deaths have been among people 65 and older, a new CDC report says — here's what it reveals about the US cases

COVID-19 deaths, ICU trips, and hospitalization rates are all higher among older Americans, according to the CDC.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[jimihendrix1]

Therees more than 2 dude. Thats just 2 I showed you.

Just these 3 pplants represent 15% of pork production. Add in 10, or more, + the #1 meat packer in the world shutting down, equals a huge supply of beef, anf pork shut off by not enough people to work, and fear of getting infected..
Pork processing plants have been hit especially hard, with three of the largest in the country going offline indefinitely— Smithfield Foods in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, JBS pork processing in Worthington, Minnesota and Tyson Fresh Foods in Waterloo, Iowa. Together, the three plants account for approximately 15 percent of pork production.

Companies scramble to contain the outbreaks by closing more than a dozen U.S. plants so far.

See where is says more than a DOZEN????

There's so many shutting down tRUmp signed an executive order to keep them open. Workers said they aint comin in without better protections.

Largest meat packer in the world shut down in Brazil.