Belarus Protests

hanimmal

Well-Known Member

I really hope that this is not the dress rehearsal for the American elections in November. But it is looking spookily familiar.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/15/world/europe/belarus-russia-Lukashenko-Putin.htmlScreen Shot 2020-08-16 at 10.18.51 AM.png

MOSCOW — After claiming for weeks that Russia was plotting to overthrow him, President Aleksandr G. Lukashenko of Belarus appealed to the Kremlin on Saturday for help against a wave of protests and strikes triggered by police violence after a disputed presidential election.

Mr. Lukashenko spoke by telephone with President Vladimir V. Putin, Belarus’s state news agency Belta reported, and secured a promise of Russian security assistance should Belarus request it. The agency quoted Mr. Lukashenko as saying that Mr. Putin had pledged that, if needed, “comprehensive assistance will be provided to ensure the security of the Republic of Belarus.”

The Kremlin’s own account of the leaders’ conversation, however, gave no indication that Mr. Putin had offered any concrete support or even a clear endorsement of Mr. Lukashenko’s staying in power.

The Belarus news agency said Mr. Putin had offered help to “ensure the security of Belarus in the event of external military threats,” which suggested that any help from Russia might not include security assistance against domestic threats like protesters.

In its own statement on the talks, the Kremlin said that Mr. Putin had agreed with the Belarusian leader on the need “to strengthen allied relations” and prevent “destructive forces” from using the political turmoil in Belarus to “harm the mutually beneficial cooperation between the two countries.”

Mr. Putin and Mr. Lukashenko, the Kremlin said, “expressed confidence that all existing problems will be settled soon.”

As recently as last month, Mr. Lukashenko was accusing Moscow of engineering plots to overthrow his government and even sending mercenaries to Belarus to disrupt the presidential election, which was held last Sunday.

But Mr. Lukashenko, facing the gravest crisis of his 26 years in power after claiming a landslide victory in what Western governments and many Belarusians dismissed as a rigged election, now seems to have calculated that Russia offers the best hope for his survival.

The European Union, outraged by a violent crackdown on protesters by Mr. Lukashenko’s security forces, said on Friday that it was preparing to impose new sanctions on Belarus, while the leaders of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania called on the country to conduct new “free and fair” elections.

Mr. Lukashenko, who has often been called “Europe’s last dictator,” has danced between Russia and the West for decades, playing each off against the other as he struggled to keep his country’s decaying economy afloat and stay in power.

In Minsk, the Belarusian capital, thousands of people brought flowers to the Pushkinskaya metro station to a makeshift memorial for Aleksandr Taraikovsky, a protester who died there during some of the heaviest clashes with the police earlier in the week.

Screen Shot 2020-08-16 at 10.19.34 AM.png

The protesters were peaceful and there were no police officers at the site. But Mr. Lukashenko, speaking to officials in Minsk, warned that his government would not be “lulled to sleep” by peaceful protests, saying that it was under attack from internal and external foes who were spreading “fake” stories about his actions and the true scale of the protest movement.

Belarusian state television, which has either ignored the protests or painted them as a foreign-born plot, became a focal point for protesters later Saturday. More than 1,000 people massed outside its Minsk offices, shouting “We want the truth!” and demanding fair coverage.

Over the past three days, protesters and riot police officers have refrained from confronting each other, retreating from the violent clashes seen earlier in the week.

“He gave an order to allow us to get out and chant a bit,” said Vitaly A. Karazhan, 33, referring to Mr. Lukashenko. “At one point, he will have the riot police out again. He doesn’t want to give up power and there is no other way for him but the bloody one.”

Mr. Karazhan, who works as a medical equipment engineer, said he feared that Mr. Lukashenko might ask the Kremlin to send reinforcements to support his own stretched and exhausted riot police squads.

“If it wasn’t for Putin, he would have fled the country already,” Mr. Karazhan said. “Factories are on strike — where is he going to get the money to feed his security apparatus?”

The Kremlin said that on Friday Belarus had released 32 Russian citizens who were arrested in late July when Mr. Lukashenko’s security services claimed they had foiled a Russian plot to disrupt the presidential election with a mercenary force of around 200 fighters. The Russians’ release, the Kremlin said on Saturday, showed that the two countries’ “relevant departments” — code for security and intelligence agencies — were now engaged in “close cooperation.”

Mr. Lukashenko, signaling an abrupt tilt back toward Russia, told his officials in Minsk that he needed to speak with Mr. Putin because his country’s tumult was “no longer just a threat to Belarus” but endangered both countries.

Screen Shot 2020-08-16 at 10.21.26 AM.png

Mr. Lukashenko, in what seemed like an effort to blur his domestic troubles with alleged threats from outside, had said earlier that he was worried by NATO military exercises involving Poland and Lithuania, Western neighbors that have denounced his election victory as fraudulent. He said there had been “an escalation and buildup of the armed component” by NATO along Belarus’s border that “our military is worried about.”

He also accused protesters of following the playbook for a “color revolution,” a reference to past popular uprisings cheered on by the West in Ukraine, Georgia and other former Soviet lands, and alleged that “elements of external interference have already appeared.”

By casting his opponents as Western-backed agents of a would-be color revolution, Mr. Lukashenko played into a conspiracy theory long embraced by the Kremlin that unrest in former Soviet territory is never really caused by locals but is always the result of machinations by Western intelligence agencies.

“The defense of Belarus today is no less than the defense of our entire space,” Mr. Lukashenko said, referring to the so-called Union State, a loose confederation comprising Russia and Belarus that was announced in the late 1990s but has never been fully implemented.

Mr. Lukashenko has in the past pushed hard to obtain cheap energy from Mr. Putin. Mr. Putin has in turn used Belarus’s dependence on Russian oil and gas to revive the moribund plan to unite the two countries.

Mr. Lukashenko’s turn to Russia for help on Saturday, his latest pirouette in a dance that has been repeated time and again since he came to power in 1994, suggested that the Belarus leader has run out of new ideas for staying in control.

When protesters took to the streets after the election, the security forces responded with shocking brutality, aggressively beating demonstrators, even after they fell to the ground, and using rubber bullets, tear gas and, in at least one confrontation, live bullets.

The police violence, however, backfired, outraging even parts of Mr. Lukashenko’s base. Strikes by workers in dozens of state-owned factories gained steam on Friday and indicated that opposition to the president had spread far beyond Western-leaning youths in Minsk, and reached deep into what had been the bedrock of Mr. Lukashenko’s support.
 

I really hope that this is not the dress rehearsal for the American elections in November. But it is looking spookily familiar.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/15/world/europe/belarus-russia-Lukashenko-Putin.htmlView attachment 4655306

MOSCOW — After claiming for weeks that Russia was plotting to overthrow him, President Aleksandr G. Lukashenko of Belarus appealed to the Kremlin on Saturday for help against a wave of protests and strikes triggered by police violence after a disputed presidential election.

Mr. Lukashenko spoke by telephone with President Vladimir V. Putin, Belarus’s state news agency Belta reported, and secured a promise of Russian security assistance should Belarus request it. The agency quoted Mr. Lukashenko as saying that Mr. Putin had pledged that, if needed, “comprehensive assistance will be provided to ensure the security of the Republic of Belarus.”

The Kremlin’s own account of the leaders’ conversation, however, gave no indication that Mr. Putin had offered any concrete support or even a clear endorsement of Mr. Lukashenko’s staying in power.

The Belarus news agency said Mr. Putin had offered help to “ensure the security of Belarus in the event of external military threats,” which suggested that any help from Russia might not include security assistance against domestic threats like protesters.

In its own statement on the talks, the Kremlin said that Mr. Putin had agreed with the Belarusian leader on the need “to strengthen allied relations” and prevent “destructive forces” from using the political turmoil in Belarus to “harm the mutually beneficial cooperation between the two countries.”

Mr. Putin and Mr. Lukashenko, the Kremlin said, “expressed confidence that all existing problems will be settled soon.”

As recently as last month, Mr. Lukashenko was accusing Moscow of engineering plots to overthrow his government and even sending mercenaries to Belarus to disrupt the presidential election, which was held last Sunday.

But Mr. Lukashenko, facing the gravest crisis of his 26 years in power after claiming a landslide victory in what Western governments and many Belarusians dismissed as a rigged election, now seems to have calculated that Russia offers the best hope for his survival.

The European Union, outraged by a violent crackdown on protesters by Mr. Lukashenko’s security forces, said on Friday that it was preparing to impose new sanctions on Belarus, while the leaders of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania called on the country to conduct new “free and fair” elections.

Mr. Lukashenko, who has often been called “Europe’s last dictator,” has danced between Russia and the West for decades, playing each off against the other as he struggled to keep his country’s decaying economy afloat and stay in power.

In Minsk, the Belarusian capital, thousands of people brought flowers to the Pushkinskaya metro station to a makeshift memorial for Aleksandr Taraikovsky, a protester who died there during some of the heaviest clashes with the police earlier in the week.

View attachment 4655307

The protesters were peaceful and there were no police officers at the site. But Mr. Lukashenko, speaking to officials in Minsk, warned that his government would not be “lulled to sleep” by peaceful protests, saying that it was under attack from internal and external foes who were spreading “fake” stories about his actions and the true scale of the protest movement.

Belarusian state television, which has either ignored the protests or painted them as a foreign-born plot, became a focal point for protesters later Saturday. More than 1,000 people massed outside its Minsk offices, shouting “We want the truth!” and demanding fair coverage.

Over the past three days, protesters and riot police officers have refrained from confronting each other, retreating from the violent clashes seen earlier in the week.

“He gave an order to allow us to get out and chant a bit,” said Vitaly A. Karazhan, 33, referring to Mr. Lukashenko. “At one point, he will have the riot police out again. He doesn’t want to give up power and there is no other way for him but the bloody one.”

Mr. Karazhan, who works as a medical equipment engineer, said he feared that Mr. Lukashenko might ask the Kremlin to send reinforcements to support his own stretched and exhausted riot police squads.

“If it wasn’t for Putin, he would have fled the country already,” Mr. Karazhan said. “Factories are on strike — where is he going to get the money to feed his security apparatus?”

The Kremlin said that on Friday Belarus had released 32 Russian citizens who were arrested in late July when Mr. Lukashenko’s security services claimed they had foiled a Russian plot to disrupt the presidential election with a mercenary force of around 200 fighters. The Russians’ release, the Kremlin said on Saturday, showed that the two countries’ “relevant departments” — code for security and intelligence agencies — were now engaged in “close cooperation.”

Mr. Lukashenko, signaling an abrupt tilt back toward Russia, told his officials in Minsk that he needed to speak with Mr. Putin because his country’s tumult was “no longer just a threat to Belarus” but endangered both countries.

View attachment 4655310

Mr. Lukashenko, in what seemed like an effort to blur his domestic troubles with alleged threats from outside, had said earlier that he was worried by NATO military exercises involving Poland and Lithuania, Western neighbors that have denounced his election victory as fraudulent. He said there had been “an escalation and buildup of the armed component” by NATO along Belarus’s border that “our military is worried about.”

He also accused protesters of following the playbook for a “color revolution,” a reference to past popular uprisings cheered on by the West in Ukraine, Georgia and other former Soviet lands, and alleged that “elements of external interference have already appeared.”

By casting his opponents as Western-backed agents of a would-be color revolution, Mr. Lukashenko played into a conspiracy theory long embraced by the Kremlin that unrest in former Soviet territory is never really caused by locals but is always the result of machinations by Western intelligence agencies.

“The defense of Belarus today is no less than the defense of our entire space,” Mr. Lukashenko said, referring to the so-called Union State, a loose confederation comprising Russia and Belarus that was announced in the late 1990s but has never been fully implemented.

Mr. Lukashenko has in the past pushed hard to obtain cheap energy from Mr. Putin. Mr. Putin has in turn used Belarus’s dependence on Russian oil and gas to revive the moribund plan to unite the two countries.

Mr. Lukashenko’s turn to Russia for help on Saturday, his latest pirouette in a dance that has been repeated time and again since he came to power in 1994, suggested that the Belarus leader has run out of new ideas for staying in control.

When protesters took to the streets after the election, the security forces responded with shocking brutality, aggressively beating demonstrators, even after they fell to the ground, and using rubber bullets, tear gas and, in at least one confrontation, live bullets.

The police violence, however, backfired, outraging even parts of Mr. Lukashenko’s base. Strikes by workers in dozens of state-owned factories gained steam on Friday and indicated that opposition to the president had spread far beyond Western-leaning youths in Minsk, and reached deep into what had been the bedrock of Mr. Lukashenko’s support.

too late; lukashenko will have to wait for his monthly one-on-one with putin and that's not scheduled until September 1st..the day is blocked for 'fledgling dictator 101'. Trumpy* has to wait until then too.
 
If Putin has been using the Russian military to attack those voters like they have been our own, hopefully he is not using a populous movement to slip in whoever his actual choice would be.

This shit is so dangerous, human beings are crazy.
 
If Putin has been using the Russian military to attack those voters like they have been our own, hopefully he is not using a populous movement to slip in whoever his actual choice would be.

This shit is so dangerous
, human beings are crazy.

don't second guess them..maybe Putin slipped you in here as populist movement supporter in order to report back to him?
 
I have been following a young guy from Russia, I’d don’t know how to link, but he is on YouTube as NFKRZ. Excellent commentary, although he is Russian, he supports the protest. I think this has Vladimir worried, if Belarus goes this way, so can he. Sort of like the Arab Spring.
 
don't second guess them..maybe Putin slipped you in here as populist movement supporter in order to report back to him?
I would doubt me too, half the time I am curious if they just turned my computer into a black box to train his internet trolls.

But luckily I am just some dude who has no actual knowledge or power outside of what is already known. The toothpaste is out of the tube because they picked a complete moronic con man turned cult leader that outed their entire scam to the world.


There is not much reason for them to go through that much trouble to screw with little old me when Trump has already exposed the Russian militaries attack on our nation.

 
I would doubt me too, half the time I am curious if they just turned my computer into a black box to train his internet trolls.

But luckily I am just some dude who has no actual knowledge or power outside of what is already known. The toothpaste is out of the tube because they picked a complete moronic con man turned cult leader that outed their entire scam to the world.


There is not much reason for them to go through that much trouble to screw with little old me when Trump has already exposed the Russian militaries attack on our nation.


you know what a 'cut-out' is right? cut-outs don't even know they're just a willing participant thinking they're helping whatever cause important to them- the whole point. i'm not saying this is you but you post a lot of pdf via FOIA..we all can have it including the russians but they think something and always buzz around you.

you seem as if you have knowledge and apparently it's their job to destroy America.
 
I would doubt me too, half the time I am curious if they just turned my computer into a black box to train his internet trolls.

But luckily I am just some dude who has no actual knowledge or power outside of what is already known. The toothpaste is out of the tube because they picked a complete moronic con man turned cult leader that outed their entire scam to the world.


There is not much reason for them to go through that much trouble to screw with little old me when Trump has already exposed the Russian militaries attack on our nation.


they have nothing but time and it's their job even if it takes years.

you'll get some excellent info from Dr Fiona Hill, who is an expert on Russia..remember her in the impeach? these are her books:


she's short, sweet (comprehensive) and to the point- I'd start with Siberian Curse.
 
you know what a 'cut-out' is right? cut-outs don't even know they're just a willing participant thinking they're helping whatever cause important to them- the whole point. i'm not saying this is you but you post a lot of pdf via FOIA..we all can have it including the russians but they think something and always buzz around you.

you seem as if you have knowledge and apparently it's their job to destroy America.
At this point every American is a potential 'cut-out' basically then. At least I don't know any of you guys, so if I am screwing up as some Russian brainwashed pawn (even if I am brainwashing into exposing the very real data analysis that is being used to attack us all), I am not attacking my friends and family with anything that is doing anything but trying to open up their ability to talk to each other.

they have nothing but time and it's their job even if it takes years.
Too true. That is why I don't try to compete with them on their terms. Trolls are endless, that is the point of them.
 
At this point every American is a potential 'cut-out' basically then. At least I don't know any of you guys, so if I am screwing up as some Russian brainwashed pawn (even if I am brainwashing into exposing the very real data analysis that is being used to attack us all), I am not attacking my friends and family with anything that is doing anything but trying to open up their ability to talk to each other.


Too true. That is why I don't try to compete with them on their terms. Trolls are endless, that is the point of them.

don't give them what they want..choices.
 
Im not sure I understand what you mean by choices.

we're adults and we make choices; those we make have bearing on others. it's irresponsible by any member to post that which might be misconstrued..and it's the members responsibility to 'field' their posting during this very sensitive time in American history..we have an obligation to those who have come after us.

you have to feed a troll for troll to be happy..
 
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we're adults and we make choices; those we make have bearing on others. it's irresponsible by any member to post that which might be misconstrued..and it's the members responsibility to 'field' their posting during this very sensitive time in American history..we have an obligation to those who have come after us.

you have to feed a troll for it to be happy.
They seem to not want to talk about what I want to talk about very much from what I have seen.

But I agree, that is why I try to stick to facts and things backed up by people who would be in trouble if they were lying that is out in the public.
 
They seem to not want to talk about what I want to talk about very much from what I have seen.

But I agree, that is why I try to stick to facts and things backed up by people who would be in trouble if they were lying that is out in the public.

PM me if you wish to discuss.
 
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