Fogdog
Well-Known Member
That is completely disconnected from reality.
Trumps in trouble, time to play race card!
- Thread starter hanimmal
- Start date
That is completely disconnected from reality.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
What experience do you have with being a black, brown or Muslim person in the US?
It is time for white people to start listening to people who actually experience difficulty due to racism rather than tell others what they think.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
Been married to a woman "of color" for almost two decades. Granted I'm Jewish and I look white or even pink but at times I am able to live vicariously. I have known so many families of immigrants who don't have a single negative thing to say about America. Things are not perfect here, that is fact; but the proverbial grass is a hell of a lot greener on this side of the fence. We should always strive for improvement but there is absolutely no reason to be starting civil wars over this bullshit.
Imagine a single Mexican mother with 5 children who immigrates (the right way) and gets a job that provides for her and her family as well as a 401k and all the other goodies American workers take for granted. You think she ever feels discriminated? No. Nothing but appreciation for the opportunity and life this country has given her.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
First off, "person of color" is a white perspective in and of itself.
Your marriage isn't a cure for racism either. What many more Black and Hispanic people are telling us in a very loud and large voice is they experience daily insults that you never experience and their lives are made more difficult because of racism. What basis do you have to dismiss the people who are telling you this? Your wife is one voice of many. It's possible they are are all telling you the truth.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Maybe you should ask better questions and try to hang up your pre conceived notions because it might be hard to answer a question honestly.
Ask her if anyone has ever told her to 'go back to your own country', and how she felt in that moment. And then listen and not comment, because that can stop conversations.
It is common to love this country and still feel hurt by the hatred too many people have that live here.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
Other than possibly being watched a little closer at stores, no she has never experienced any major discrimination like that.
CunningCanuk
Well-Known Member
Yeah. If only the white Christians can catch a break.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Did she not go to school here? Kids I grew up with could be pretty cruel.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
He's just making the common error of taking a small, cherry picked sample and extrapolating that to the world at large.
First, I don't believe you are conveying your wife's story accurately, assuming she exists at all.
Second, one person's story doesn't invalidate what many others say. I'm not saying your wife is wrong, just that she's one person among many others who say their experiences are very different than hers.
Finally, most Hispanic Americans living in this country were born here. In the south west, there are communities of Hispanic people who have been here longer than this country has been around. You keep talking as if being Hispanic means they are immigrants. That's not true. Yet, wages for Hispanic people are 30% less than whites, proportion living in poverty is much higher, their level of education is less. So, let's not just dismiss the voices of millions of others because your wife says otherwise.
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hanimmal
Well-Known Member
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-racist-anti-vote-effort-by-florida-republicans-hits-a-new-low/2020/09/27/5d5a7450-fe9d-11ea-8d05-9beaaa91c71f_story.html
ALTHOUGH THEY claim to believe in democracy, Republicans are working feverishly to make it harder for people — or certain kinds of people — to vote. They have undertaken efforts across the country to purge voters from registration rolls, impede voting by mail and stop early voting. An appalling new low in their campaign to disenfranchise people in advance of the Nov. 3 elections has been reached with the bid by Florida Republicans — cheered on by President Trump — to investigate Mike Bloomberg for the “crime” of trying to help people to be able to vote.
Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody (R) called on the FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to investigate efforts by the businessman, philanthropist and former New York mayor on behalf of an organization that is raising money to pay off the court debt of former felons so they can vote. The Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, which set up a fines and fees fund, is an organization run by formerly incarcerated people that spearheaded Florida’s adoption in 2018 of Amendment 4 restoring voting rights to former felons. Despite overwhelming, bipartisan approval, Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) and his GOP cohorts in the legislature worked to thwart the measure. They passed a law requiring former felons to repay outstanding legal debts, knowing full well that most of these people — mainly Black and Latino — don’t have the financial means. In many cases they can’t even find out how much they owe. A torturous legal battle ensued with a lower court ruling the law was unconstitutional because it amounted to a poll tax, but that decision was reversed by a federal appeals court on Sept. 11.
That 6-to-4 ruling upholding the law spurred the coalition’s fundraising to help pay off outstanding court fees and fines before the voter registration deadline of Oct. 5. Musicians John Legend and Camila Cabello teamed up for a crowdfunding campaign, and there has been support from other music, film and sports stars. Mr. Bloomberg, while not giving direct donations, helped raise $16 million, and the group said it was well on its way to meeting its $25 million goal with contributions from more than 40,000 donors.
Ms. Moody cited “potential violations of election laws.” Mr. Trump (naturally) went further: “It’s a felony. He’s actually giving money to people. He’s paying people to vote. He’s actually saying, ‘Here’s money, now you go ahead and vote for only Democrats.’ Right?”
Nonsense. Any money raised to pay fines and fees goes to a 501(c)(4) foundation, which then goes to the county or state, not to the former felons, who have no idea who helped pay their fines and fees. No one is obligated to register to vote or support a specific candidate. That the coalition’s effort has been underway for more than a year — with some debts already paid off — seems to have escaped the notice of Ms. Moody and other Republicans. No doubt the approach of Nov. 3 and polls showing
Mr. Trump in a virtual tie in Floridawith former vice president Joe Biden has got them paying attention.
The call for investigation is nothing more than another brazen effort to try to scare people — who have the legal right to vote — from going to the polls.
ALTHOUGH THEY claim to believe in democracy, Republicans are working feverishly to make it harder for people — or certain kinds of people — to vote. They have undertaken efforts across the country to purge voters from registration rolls, impede voting by mail and stop early voting. An appalling new low in their campaign to disenfranchise people in advance of the Nov. 3 elections has been reached with the bid by Florida Republicans — cheered on by President Trump — to investigate Mike Bloomberg for the “crime” of trying to help people to be able to vote.
Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody (R) called on the FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to investigate efforts by the businessman, philanthropist and former New York mayor on behalf of an organization that is raising money to pay off the court debt of former felons so they can vote. The Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, which set up a fines and fees fund, is an organization run by formerly incarcerated people that spearheaded Florida’s adoption in 2018 of Amendment 4 restoring voting rights to former felons. Despite overwhelming, bipartisan approval, Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) and his GOP cohorts in the legislature worked to thwart the measure. They passed a law requiring former felons to repay outstanding legal debts, knowing full well that most of these people — mainly Black and Latino — don’t have the financial means. In many cases they can’t even find out how much they owe. A torturous legal battle ensued with a lower court ruling the law was unconstitutional because it amounted to a poll tax, but that decision was reversed by a federal appeals court on Sept. 11.
That 6-to-4 ruling upholding the law spurred the coalition’s fundraising to help pay off outstanding court fees and fines before the voter registration deadline of Oct. 5. Musicians John Legend and Camila Cabello teamed up for a crowdfunding campaign, and there has been support from other music, film and sports stars. Mr. Bloomberg, while not giving direct donations, helped raise $16 million, and the group said it was well on its way to meeting its $25 million goal with contributions from more than 40,000 donors.
Ms. Moody cited “potential violations of election laws.” Mr. Trump (naturally) went further: “It’s a felony. He’s actually giving money to people. He’s paying people to vote. He’s actually saying, ‘Here’s money, now you go ahead and vote for only Democrats.’ Right?”
Nonsense. Any money raised to pay fines and fees goes to a 501(c)(4) foundation, which then goes to the county or state, not to the former felons, who have no idea who helped pay their fines and fees. No one is obligated to register to vote or support a specific candidate. That the coalition’s effort has been underway for more than a year — with some debts already paid off — seems to have escaped the notice of Ms. Moody and other Republicans. No doubt the approach of Nov. 3 and polls showing
Mr. Trump in a virtual tie in Floridawith former vice president Joe Biden has got them paying attention.
The call for investigation is nothing more than another brazen effort to try to scare people — who have the legal right to vote — from going to the polls.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Next they need to figure out how impactful it is when along with that information Trump's trolls (foreign and domestic) also know every website a person visits and their user names and use several left/right sock puppet trolls to increase the 'touches' on those 'deterrent' citizens by pushing false narratives.
This program is still focused on the advertising, when it is the 2 billion interactions on Facebook alone in the last month of the 2016 election with over 127 million Americans that I argue is the most effective.
I really wish they would have asked more questions about how their (and their family interactions) mood is about society and how/when it has changed. And gone through their social media a bit and tried to find the trolls they are interacting with on a daily basis, and how it has (likely) altered how they feel about the world and politics.
I am pretty positive It would be entirely possible to get a clear picture of how effective this attack on our society was with a retrospective study, hell the spreadsheet is essentially already made up.
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hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Hey man, I was thinking after re-reading this thread. You might want to have a sit down with your entire family, and actually ask her kids about what they have experienced and how it impacted them, and just listen, and not try to poke holes at first wait until everything is said and done before you stop them from talking, because chances are they have been under assault from the propaganda warfare too and might say things you know are untrue (it will be hard to not pounce on it if it turns into an argument). Who knows where it goes, but I would guess it would be pretty eye opening for everyone in your family.
Best of luck with you and your family.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
The immigrant with 5 kids was just an example from an interview I watched. The point is, if you asked those kids if they thought their life would be better if they had stayed in Mexico, what do you think they would say? America is by no means perfect but the grass is a hell of a lot greener on this side of the fence and we are always working to make things better here even though they are already great. America takes in HALF of the worlds immigrants even though we only make up 4% of the world population. If America is really that racist, why do so many people come here and stay instead of returning home?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Right on sorry, thought you were talking about your wife.
Of course America is 'better', I love my country as much as anyone. Ill go further and say I love my state. I love being surrounded by our lakes.
But is the the goal. just to be better? Why wouldn't we want those new American children to not have 60 years of immense success, allowing them to access everything we have to offer as a nation? It is in our best interest to have all of our citizens to be able to achieve everything they can, because it benefits us all.
No question I would put our almost 4 million people a year graduating college against the brainpower of any other nation any and every day of the week.
I have never seen that stat before. Are you sure it is legit?
Why would you think those are linked?
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
Im a white guy ( 61 ), married 18 years to a Filipna ( 46).
You have to be crazy if you think she hasnt been told to go back to her own country ( Many also think shes Mexican .. Even Mexicans do ) and has had piss thrown at her at the bus stop, thankfully it didnt hit her. Shes had M-80s thrown at her from passing cars, and those can blow the side of your head clean off. I can go on, and on. I also live in a tRUmp infested region.
You have to be crazy if you think she hasnt been told to go back to her own country ( Many also think shes Mexican .. Even Mexicans do ) and has had piss thrown at her at the bus stop, thankfully it didnt hit her. Shes had M-80s thrown at her from passing cars, and those can blow the side of your head clean off. I can go on, and on. I also live in a tRUmp infested region.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
You must have missed the part where I said we are always working to be better.....Things will never be perfect but that is what we are always striving for.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
Dont you think immigrants would return to where they came from if it was so fucking terrible here? Or never come here in the first place.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that was the next sentence you are right, I should have kept reading.
I think what followed was why I was saying it, but you just kind of skipped over it. We don't need to make things hard for kids to build up their tool kits as a society, and it is very inefficient to do that.
There are infinite reasons someone may move somewhere. Why are you coming up with some arbritrary reason and tying it to them going home if it isn't different than where they came from?
Why take offense to people for example being upset about people treating them subhuman and say if they don't like it go home? When their home is in America. Telling them to go back to their 'own country' is likewise dumb because they live in America.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
Half was kind of a ballpark statement but just look at the graphs. USA is blowing everyone else away as far as number of immigrants/year.
US vs. Other Countries: Compare Immigration Processes!
Discover global immigration trends in the US versus other countries with expert assistance in L.A. from Goldstein Immigration Lawyers!
immigrationlawyerslosangeles.com
Theres a shit load of info on several websites.... Thats just the first one that came up.