Hey @klx very interested in your setup and looking to setup my rooms very similar. So far i know and like DWC/RDWC grows but I have height limits in my space. I'm curious what you think of basically turning a flood table like yours into a RDWC compared to flood and drain. My thoughts are this would let me keep the tables ground level.
The klx Way!
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klx
Well-Known Member
Hey mate, yes should work fine as long as you are militant with your pathogen control amd temps. If you are able to really dial in your environment then it would work. I was at the mercy of ambient temps in this location so had to work within those constraints.
Good luck!
wingerdinger
Well-Known Member
Hey guys
Having an issue with my clones transitioning from the cloner to the flood and drain trays.
They are coming out of the cloner strong clones with good roots and good green leaves.
When i swap them over to the trays it seems the roots die or are very stunted, takes about a week for them to start pushing new roots.
In the pictures they have been in the trays for a week, the white roots are new since being in the tray and the brownish roots are the ones they had from the aero cloner.
Its also strange that the white new roots will push out from the old brown ones.
I have trouble controlling the humidity in my sealed room when the plants are young.
Sometimes it can be as low as 40% during lights on 60% lights off. soon as they grow a little and transpire it evens out to good levels.
I can provide any details you need, i have really tried allot of different things and i always run into this problem.
Having an issue with my clones transitioning from the cloner to the flood and drain trays.
They are coming out of the cloner strong clones with good roots and good green leaves.
When i swap them over to the trays it seems the roots die or are very stunted, takes about a week for them to start pushing new roots.
In the pictures they have been in the trays for a week, the white roots are new since being in the tray and the brownish roots are the ones they had from the aero cloner.
Its also strange that the white new roots will push out from the old brown ones.
I have trouble controlling the humidity in my sealed room when the plants are young.
Sometimes it can be as low as 40% during lights on 60% lights off. soon as they grow a little and transpire it evens out to good levels.
I can provide any details you need, i have really tried allot of different things and i always run into this problem.
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klx
Well-Known Member
Are your roots hanging low enough so they are totally under water during the flood cycle?
What is your flood cycle? You could try leaving the pumps on 24 hours for the first week. As well as keeping them wetter it may help to bring your humidity levels up in the room as well, although it should be close to 100% humidity under the tray even if only flooding 15on and 15 off.
wingerdinger
Well-Known Member
I am using Xtrays which are 150mm deep, i try to push the stems down as far as possible and i use 2 extenders on the over flow outlet.
It takes over 100L to flood my 1200x1200 tray ( not ideal) as i have only 160L tubs.
I flood the tray for 4.30mins as this is just enough time for it to spill over with and leave enough water in the res so the pump doesn't pump dry.
Then 15mins off enough time for it to drain with only a slight amount of water in the tray oil slick .
hard to tell from the photos because of the reflection.
Ill try to get some better ones
It takes over 100L to flood my 1200x1200 tray ( not ideal) as i have only 160L tubs.
I flood the tray for 4.30mins as this is just enough time for it to spill over with and leave enough water in the res so the pump doesn't pump dry.
Then 15mins off enough time for it to drain with only a slight amount of water in the tray oil slick .
hard to tell from the photos because of the reflection.
Ill try to get some better ones
klx
Well-Known Member
Everything seems ok. Are you able to take your clones a few days earlier and get some more roots before moving them? Im not really sure why they are turning brown and not really growing. They should just continue with their growth and stay nice and white. The only thing I can think is there are just not enough roots before transplanting them to the trays.
Do they take off once that first week is over and then you get good growth?
Do they take off once that first week is over and then you get good growth?
wingerdinger
Well-Known Member
klx
Well-Known Member
I think thats where the issue is then. Your trays and flooding seems good. Make sure you have big, healthy mothers to take your clones and try to take clones where the stem is at least 5mm in width. More if you can. The thicker the better. If possible make some more space to have extra mothers and take less cuttings from each one, or try to have enough that you take extras, then only flower the best of the best. I know it can get tricky with space and plant counts but it does make a difference. The bigger and fatter the cutting that you start with the better.
Maybe look at your cloner and change your sprayers or whatever you are using or even buy a commercial aero cloner. Ensure you change out the water every week at least and try using nutrient instead of plain water so they are being fed as soon as there are some root nubs.
thenasty1
Well-Known Member
i have been running this system for a while too and had similar difficulties. same deal pretty much- wonky plants for a week or so after transplant, and then they take off hard. its a great system even with this issue, efficient as all hell. i like working with it. but id like to avoid the pissed off plants part if i can. assuming environment, incoming clones, flood times, nutes, and pathogen management are more or less dialed in, any other ideas on what else could be causing this?
klx
Well-Known Member
Not really. If you are both having the same issue it must be something to do with the transition. I would look at tyring a batch with more root development than you usually have see how that goes, then next time try constant flow in the flood tables, next time change the nutes in the cloner. That's how I would approach troubleshooting it anyway, change one thing at a time and figure it out through a process of elimination.
I know I played round with my flood cycles during that first week of flower when I was working it all out but as long as there enough roots on the cuttings it was not a big issue.
wingerdinger
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with this being the best system i have every run (10 years of growing), even with these issues. I whole heartily thank you for your time and guidance KLX.
I have a turboklone 48 site.
Because I had some clones that were further behind i kept them in the cloner for longer so i had to run some nutes.
So i had some really big clones and they still suffered the same stunted growth like the rest.
i have some pictures to illustrate how large they are.
klx
Well-Known Member
Glad it is working for you but I dont really have any answers for you about Week 1. Those clones and roots are easily big enough so I am stumped really. Logically the plants should not really suffer any sort of transplant shock since the roots are not being disturbed at all but what you describe does sound like transplant shock. Sorry I cant be of more help.
thenasty1
Well-Known Member
pretty close to what im seeing. im running the pumps just long enough to fill the table and then off for 30 minutes or so, seems to reduce the time it takes for them to snap out of it a bit. but thats all i got so far.
tschiller
Member
I'm going to try out this method my next run, starting in a couple of weeks. I followed the thread quite closely, but one question or rather uncertainty remains: coming out of the cloner into the (in my case) tent, you go 12/12 straight and already with Aqua Flores? Just asking because Canna states in their grow guide that Aqua Vega should be used till the end of stretch even in the first couple of weeks of 12/12. But I rather trust your experience than their calculator 
From my understanding the only time you use Vega is if the clones have to remain for a longer period in the cloner, right?
And regarding EC: mine is 0.4 from tap, just get it up to the 1.4 I read somewhere on page 3 or so?
Thanks for answering, and great thread btw! I thought of quite a similar solution and asked if someone had already tested it in the biggest german grower forum, someone directed me here like "there's already a pro who's running with that exact same idea"
From my understanding the only time you use Vega is if the clones have to remain for a longer period in the cloner, right?And regarding EC: mine is 0.4 from tap, just get it up to the 1.4 I read somewhere on page 3 or so?
Thanks for answering, and great thread btw! I thought of quite a similar solution and asked if someone had already tested it in the biggest german grower forum, someone directed me here like "there's already a pro who's running with that exact same idea"
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klx
Well-Known Member
Dont stress on the nutrients. Nutrients are the easiest part of growing weed cos it will grow very well with a vast range of NPK ratios. But to answer your question, yes go straight in with the Flores from Day 1 in the trays. And yes 12/12 straight from cloner is good as long as you have big clones. Big clones are the key to zero veg sog. If your clones are small or have thin stems go ahead and do a week or 5 days of 18/6 then flip to 12/12 if you want to. There are no hard rules but just guidelines to work with.I'm going to try out this method my next run, starting in a couple of weeks. I followed the thread quite closely, but one question or rather uncertainty remains: coming out of the cloner into the (in my case) tent, you go 12/12 straight and already with Aqua Flores? Just asking because Canna states in their grow guide that Aqua Vega should be used till the end of stretch even in the first couple of weeks of 12/12. But I rather trust your experience than their calculator
And regarding EC: mine is 0.4 from tap, just get it up to the 1.4 I read somewhere on page 3 or so?
Thanks for answering, and great thread btw! I thought of quite a similar solution and asked if someone had already tested it in the biggest german grower forum, someone directed me here like "there's already a pro who's running with that exact same idea"
Keep your veg nutes for your mother plants and the cloner - correct.
Feel free to post pics of your set up here and that goes for anyone running this system feel free to post pics here I would love to see them.
Cheers happy growing!
klx
Well-Known Member
No worries, any questions feel free to ask.Much appriciated, thank you! And yes, I think I will post one or another picture of my journey, same was requested at the other forum
TerryTeacosy
Well-Known Member
How did you mount the support legs on the underside of the polycarbonate sheet? It looks like electrical conduit connectors, but there's no penetration to the top of the sheet.
klx
Well-Known Member
They are pvc. Glue and end cap to underside of the sheet then slot in the support piece.
They are not really needed in a 3x3 tray. Bigger trays yes.
tschiller
Member
As promised, Weeks 7, 8 and the moneyshot:
Had some problems cloning, but it was my first time ever producing and processing clones. Hope I learnt the one thing or the other.
The grow itself was insanely easy thanks to your documentation in here
Guess if had to engineer it myself, I would have thrown money down the sink on the whole Canna range including the cleaning hassle afterwards. Saved me some try and error runs for sure!
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