"Jesus Certainly Existed" Three Reasons To Be Skeptical

subwax

Well-Known Member
nope that was recended by the vatican here in the 20th century........some people actually look at her as the 13th apostle

and yes they did :hump:

Well - if there was ever a statement that made a mockery of the bible, its that she had a baby without sex. That is biologically impossible. We have to cast aside this notion of faith, and look at reality. People do not give birth without first having intercourse.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
nope that was recended by the vatican here in the 20th century........some people actually look at her as the 13th apostle

and yes they did :hump:
Also - I wouldn't trust the Valican with the truth, and I most certainly would not trust any of them with my child!
 

GrassBurner

Well-Known Member
So here's one that get me - Adam and Eve were the first people on the planet, according to the bible - therefore, extrapolating the various different permutations of the children, at some point here, we have to face the point where incest happens - we cant avoid it.
So the guy that created the heavens and earth, and brought life to the universe, didn't account for "incest"? :lol:
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
Big point of the Bible that you haven't read, God doesn't use the righteous. Jesus' disciples weren't exactly stand up citizens of their time.
Thats a convenient excuse - not one I subscribe to. There is absolutely zero proof, apart from a book that anyone could have written.

Religion was great at controlling the uneducated masses - things have changed now, as our education standards have drastically improved since the early times - religion has no place in society any more, as we do not need to be controlled.

The above are my opinions, so please take them as such.
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Well - if there was ever a statement that made a mockery of the bible, its that she had a baby without sex. That is biologically impossible. We have to cast aside this notion of faith, and look at reality. People do not give birth without first having intercourse.
the true mockery of the bible is this.......was if Paul wasn't supposed to be the leader of the Vatican, what if, and i use "if", Mary was supposed the lead the church instead....
 

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
Philosophy goes out the window when contradictory information arises huh?
Circular logic much?

Anyway check out the super fishy story of Saul's/Paul's conversion. The unknown author of Luke is borrowing from the OT to create a narrative.

Acts 9:3-8

"3 Now as he was going along and approaching Damascus, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5 He asked, "Who are you, Lord?" The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 But get up and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless because they heard the voice but saw no one. 8 Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; so they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus."

2 Maccabees 3:23-28

"23 Heliodorus went on with what had been decided. 24 But when he arrived at the treasury with his bodyguard, then and there the Sovereign of spirits and of all authority caused so great a manifestation that all who had been so bold as to accompany him were astounded by the power of God, and became faint with terror. 25 For there appeared to them a magnificently caparisoned horse, with a rider of frightening mien; it rushed furiously at Heliodorus and struck at him with its front hoofs. Its rider was seen to have armor and weapons of gold. 26 Two young men also appeared to him, remarkably strong, gloriously beautiful and splendidly dressed, who stood on either side of him and flogged him continuously, inflicting many blows on him. 27 When he suddenly fell to the ground and deep darkness came over him, his men took him up, put him on a stretcher, 28 and carried him away — this man who had just entered the aforesaid treasury with a great retinue and all his bodyguard but was now unable to help himself. They recognized clearly the sovereign power of God."

Acts 9:17-19

"17 So Ananias went and entered the house. He laid his hands on Saul and said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on your way here, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and his sight was restored. Then he got up and was baptized,19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength. For several days he was with the disciples in Damascus, 20 and immediately he began to proclaim Jesus in the synagogues, saying, "He is the Son of God."'

Tobit 11:7-8, :11-15a

"7 Raphael said to Tobias, before he had approached his father, "I know that his eyes will be opened. 8 Smear the gall of the fish on his eyes; the medicine will make the white films shrink and peel off from his eyes, and your father will regain his sight and see the light."'

"11 with the gall of the fish in his hand, and holding him firmly, he blew into his eyes, saying, "Take courage, father." With this he applied the medicine on his eyes, 12 and it made them smart. 13 Next, with both his hands he peeled off the white films from the corners of his eyes. Then Tobit saw his son and threw his arms around him, 14 and he wept and said to him, "I see you, my son, the light of my eyes!" Then he said, "Blessed be God, and blessed be his great name, and blessed be all his holy angels. May his holy name be blessed throughout all the ages. 15 Though he afflicted me, he has had mercy upon me. Now I see my son Tobias!"'

2 Maccabees 3:34-36

"34 And see that you, who have been flogged by heaven, report to all people the majestic power of God." Having said this they vanished. 35 Then Heliodorus offered sacrifice to the Lord and made very great vows to the Savior of his life, and having bidden Onias farewell, he marched off with his forces to the king. 36 He bore testimony to all concerning the deeds of the supreme God, which he had seen with his own eyes."

"The use of cycles, parallels, repetitions, melodramatic characterization, stereotyped scene construction, inventing or presenting stories that replicate biblical narrative, unbalanced narrative with evident symbolic import, and a balanced structure-all these raise insurmountable objections. History cannot be quite so symmetrical. In addition there are any number of historical problems."

Richard Pervo, The Mystery of Acts, pp. 151

Note: In Acts nowhere does the authorities show concern that a convicted criminal (Jesus) escaped justice, and is being harbored by what could be perceived as rebels against the government.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
Please dont take my posts as a direct attack on people who believe - I am genuinely interested in the topic, and do believe that all have the choice and the right to believe what they want to, regardless as to whether or not I agree with them. Its just cool to talk about it.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
How can you quote from a story book? Its like me quoting from Winnie the Pooh, or Lord of the Rings, or any of the writings of L Ron Hubbard.
 

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
Jesus kills a kid??? Wow. I know I am a dunce here, but I have never heard that one before.

Voice in the back of my head is screaming about a complete lack of proof again though. Just another story.
Yes, it's a later forgery, but there was many of them. Like one I forget the name, but a woman checked Mary after giving birth to check if she was still a virgin (because that's what one does) and her hands caught fire. Or the Gospel of Peter with a talking dog, and a giant (40+ ft) walking/talking crucifix comes out of the tomb.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
Its good to see smoking weed and taking acid was just as prevalent in those times as it is now.
 

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
Its good to see smoking weed and taking acid was just as prevalent in those times as it is now.
The High Priest's headdress had a crown made of a plant known for it's hallucinogenic properties at which a golden plate covered the forehead. On said golden plate was inscribed sacred characters for the name of God.

Josephus: THE ANTIQUITIES OF THE JEWS, BOOK 3, CHAPTER 7 (172-178), CONCERNING THE GARMENTS ...OF THE HIGH PRIEST

"6. The high priest's mitre was the same that we described before, and was wrought like that of all the other priests; above which there was another, with swathes of blue embroidered, and round it was a golden crown polished, of three rows, one above another; out of which arose a cup of gold, which resembled the herb which we call Saccharus: *but those Greeks that are skilful in botany call it Hyoscyamus. ...Now the fruit is preserved by this coat of the calyx, which fruit is like the seed of the herb Sideritis: it sends out a flower that may seem to resemble that of poppy. Of this was a crown made, as far as from the hinder part of the head to each of the temples; but this Ephielis, for so this calyx may be called, did not cover the forehead, but it was covered with a golden plate, which had inscribed upon it the name of God in sacred characters. And such were the ornaments of the high priest."*

*Hyoscyamus Niger*

" ...
was historically used..., *as well as for its psychoactive properties in "magic brews". These psychoactive properties include visual hallucinations and a sensation of flight. ...The plant, recorded as Herba Apollinaris, was used to yield oracles by the priestesses of Apollo.* "

 

subwax

Well-Known Member
The High Priest's headdress had a crown made of a plant known for it's hallucinogenic properties at which a golden plate covered the forehead. On said golden plate was inscribed sacred characters for the name of God.

Josephus: THE ANTIQUITIES OF THE JEWS, BOOK 3, CHAPTER 7 (172-178), CONCERNING THE GARMENTS ...OF THE HIGH PRIEST

"6. The high priest's mitre was the same that we described before, and was wrought like that of all the other priests; above which there was another, with swathes of blue embroidered, and round it was a golden crown polished, of three rows, one above another; out of which arose a cup of gold, which resembled the herb which we call Saccharus: *but those Greeks that are skilful in botany call it Hyoscyamus. ...Now the fruit is preserved by this coat of the calyx, which fruit is like the seed of the herb Sideritis: it sends out a flower that may seem to resemble that of poppy. Of this was a crown made, as far as from the hinder part of the head to each of the temples; but this Ephielis, for so this calyx may be called, did not cover the forehead, but it was covered with a golden plate, which had inscribed upon it the name of God in sacred characters. And such were the ornaments of the high priest."*

*Hyoscyamus Niger*

" ...
was historically used..., *as well as for its psychoactive properties in "magic brews". These psychoactive properties include visual hallucinations and a sensation of flight. ...The plant, recorded as Herba Apollinaris, was used to yield oracles by the priestesses of Apollo.* "

Damn - you make me look thick as pigshit.
 
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