War

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
They immediately turn that right around back on you. Esp. the smart ones, ie., "you're the
traitor, not me!" It is so unreal!
That is. good time to say something along the lines of "So you are ok that the data on all of us here in America that Trump was given by the RNC when he became the Republican nominee in 2016 was promptly handed over to the Russian military to use to attack us?"

And when they say 'fake news', just point out that it is not, and ask again if they are ok with Trump allowing Americans to be attacked by the Russian military is ok with them. After some grumbles even the most heads up their ass American I find will say no of course not.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-paul-manafort-russia-campaigns-konstantin-kilimnik-d2fdefdb37077e28eba135e21fce6ebfScreen Shot 2022-12-21 at 12.41.27 PM.png
WASHINGTON (AP) — It was one of the more tantalizing, yet unresolved, questions of the investigation into possible connections between Russia and Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign: Why was a business associate of campaign chairman Paul Manafort given internal polling data — and what did he do with it?

A Treasury Department statement Thursday offered a potentially significant clue, asserting that Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian and Ukrainian political consultant, had shared sensitive campaign and polling information with Russian intelligence services.

Kilimnik has long been alleged by U.S. officials to have ties to Russian intelligence. But the statement in a broader Treasury Department sanctions announcement was the first time the U.S. government had so directly drawn a connection from the Trump campaign to the Kremlin’s intelligence services. The revelation was all the more startling because it went beyond any allegation made in either special counsel Robert Mueller’s 2019 report or in an even more damning and detailed document released last year by the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Both those investigations were unable to determine what Kilimnik did with the data and whether he shared it further.

The issue resurfaced Thursday because Kilimnik was one of 32 people and entities sanctioned by the U.S. government for interference in the 2020 election. Officials say Kilimnik sought to promote the bogus narrative that Ukraine, not Russia, had interfered in the 2016 election.

Kilimnik was a key but mysterious figure in Mueller’s investigation into potential coordination between Russia and the 2016 Trump campaign. A business associate of Manafort’s who worked closely with him, even managing his firm’s office in Kyiv, Kilimnik is mentioned by name 156 times in the Mueller report. He was also indicted alongside Manafort on witness tampering allegations, but has not appeared in the U.S. to face those charges. The FBI has issued a $250,000 award for information leading to his arrest.

A key episode examined by Mueller involved Manafort’s decision to share campaign polling data with Kilimnik — something prosecutors say Manafort lied about when questioned. Investigators scrutinized a series of secretive encounters between the men, including one in August 2016 at the Grand Havana Club in New York.

There, according to statements provided by Mueller, Manafort briefed Kilimnik on internal campaign data and messaging and they discussed battleground states.

The exchange of polling data was an eye-catching data point, especially since it suggested Russia could have exploited such inside information to target influence campaigns aimed at boosting Trump’s election bid in 2016.

But Mueller’s team said it couldn’t “reliably determine” Manafort’s purpose in sharing it, nor assess what Kilimnik may have done with it — in part due to questions over Manafort’s credibility. The Senate committee also came up empty, though its report drew attention for its characterization of Kilimnik as a Russian intelligence officer.

It was not clear what new information, if any, led to the Treasury Department’s assessment that Kilimnik had “provided the Russian Intelligence Services with sensitive information on polling and campaign strategy.” A Treasury Department spokesman did not return an email seeking comment.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-campaign-chief-paul-manafort-owns-up-to-passing-sensitive-data-to-suspected-russian-agent
Screen Shot 2022-12-21 at 12.43.42 PM.png
 

doughper

Well-Known Member
ted cruz isn't fucking stupid...desantis isn't stupid. ...but not stupid.
trump isn't stupid.
intelligence is one metric to judge someone by...there are others. compassion, empathy, philanthropy, their past actions and statements.
i'm betting that all those "intelligent" people you mentioned are sorely lacking in those other metrics.
I know. Same with Dumbya, except he is, was stupid, and I think trump's stupid too. Probly
not Cruz, Desantis, tho. I think Trump's just trained as a grifter, but not smart by any means. By that
i mean it was a stupid or dumbed-down electorate that put the bastard in office in the first place. :(

As to your bet, and I do not mean to be argumentative at all, but nope, many of
these far right wingers i know are as nice, generous and helpful
as many dems i know. And yet they still speek in racist tones. One guy i know
who is super smart, lives in entirely black neighborhood, and thinks the world
would've been so much better off if Hitler had won, and that the holocaust did
not happen, and says Trump is way too liberal. Thinks Alex Jones is a lib. Says
FOX news is liberal. It is truly the weirdest phenomenon I have ever imagined.

It's some kind of ego trip, or that they know something I do not, or they think
that they're being unique in their thinking or some weirdness. Now the most of
them are just uneducated, not stupid. I don't think most are stupid, just they're
mis informed, mal-informed, or what the GOP has long sought, dumbed-down. :(
 
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HGCC

Well-Known Member
https://ballotpedia.org/Partisan_affiliations_of_registered_voters

36 million republicans registered...of that, maybe 40% are magats, so more like 15-20 million...spread over all 50 states, even though most are in about a dozen states.
we can and will go against them, stomp them flat, and leave them where they lie as the rest of the nation moves forward, past their bullshit.
I end up around the same number but get there differently. There's roughly 80 million people who vote for each party. 10-20% on each side are who I will call weirdos. I'm in that group on the left, we want shit like affordable housing and healthcare. That 10-20 on the other end wants to bring back owning people. The super far left isn't in the dems, so we don't really pull that hard that direction.
 

doughper

Well-Known Member
And when they say 'fake news', just point out that it is not, and ask again if they are ok with Trump allowing Americans to be attacked by the Russian military is ok with them.
Doesn't work either. U say fake, i say not, then where are you? And Trump backing Putin is
a great idea, because Russia is going to help us in the great race war against China. Why, I ask would
Russia back us in this war against China? Because they're white, like we are, he'll say. :faints: I get red
in the face arguing with this guy. He's my best friend, btw. :throws hands up:
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
I know. Same with Dumbya, except he is, was stupid, and I think trump's stupid too. Probly
not Cruz, Desantis, tho. I think Trump's just trained as a grifter, but not smart by any means. By that
i mean it was a stupid or dumbed-down electorate that put the bastard in office in the first place. :(

As to your bet, and I do not mean to be argumentative at all, but nope, many of
these far right wingers i know are as nice, generous and helpful
as many dems i know. It is truly the weirdest phenomenon I have ever imagined.
It's some kind of ego trip, or that they know something I do not, or they think
that they're being unique in their thinking or some weirdness. Now the most of
them are just uneducated, not stupid. I don't think most are stupid, just they're
mis informed, mal-informed, or what the GOP has long sought, dumbed-down. :(
if someone is intelligent, and they still choose to follow an unethical, immoral, criminal leader...they have a reason that you are not aware of.
when i was a kid, my grandmother would watch me for my mom, and she went to church 4 times a week, so i went with her most of the time. even at 6 and 7 years old, i realized that these women who were always so sweet to me, would turn on one another in an instant. they all went to church picnics, dinners, meetings, and they were all sweetness and light, ice wouldn't have melted in their mouths...but when they were alone, they wasted no time in dissecting whichever hen wasn't present at the time. this daughter is pregnant by this son, this nephew got arrested for this, or kicked out of something for something, or soandso is getting a divorce, or cheating with suchandsuch...
those nice people following an evil fuck are doing it for a reason, and that reason is probably that you have overestimated how nice they actually are.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Doesn't work either. U say fake, i say not, then where are you? And Trump backing Putin is
a great idea, because Russia is going to help us in the great race war against China. Why, I ask would
Russia back us in this war against China? Because they're white, like we are, he'll say. :faints: I get red
in the face arguing with this guy. He's my best friend, btw. :throws hands up:
and where are we? we're looking at which news service tells the truth, and which one is full of shit.
facts are immutable, period. either you tell them, or you don't. if you don't, it's not news, its editorial opinions. editorial opinions that are wrong, because they ignore the facts.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Doesn't work either. U say fake, i say not, then where are you? And Trump backing Putin is
a great idea, because Russia is going to help us in the great race war against China. Why, I ask would
Russia back us in this war against China? Because they're white, like we are, he'll say. :faints: I get red
in the face arguing with this guy. He's my best friend, btw. :throws hands up:
Trump's campaign manager admitted to handing the data over to the Russians. It is a slam dunk.

You can't fight crazy though man, so who knows about that dude. But then you just stick with so you are ok with Russia attacking our vulnerable citizens, and Trump helping them? Let them keep backpedaling (while you point out that you are not ok with Americans being attacked by foreign militaries) and defending that shit, and don't let them move the goalposts (like they are trained to do when they read the online troll posts over and over) by sticking with it.

But yeah, once you get to race war shit, it is pretty far gone.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Ty, I try to do that, and have done it all my life here :sigh:.

Yeah, you're the tx guy, if i remember. Yup, it's as right wing in my
district as it is anywhere in USA. 'Bama, OK, KS, FL, u name it, this
place votes repub, always. But being on the coast, it has a large
coastal city and the state is usually democrat. It's hilarious. I've
witnessed repug just stomping mad at our governor. Jeeze, and
the state is as well run as any in the union too. Always has been. :)
Oregon?
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Ukrainian President Zelensky has arrived in the US
From CNN's Kevin Liptak and MJ Lee

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has arrived in the United States, a source familiar with his travels tells CNN.
Zelensky landed at Joint Base Andrews, a separate source familiar said.
He will visit the Oval Office this afternoon for extended talks with US President Joe Biden, who will announce he is sending nearly $2 billion in additional security assistance to Ukraine, including a sophisticated new air defense system.
The two will convene a White House news conference before Zelensky addresses a joint meeting of Congress on Capitol Hill in prime time.


Tight security enforced around Zelensky’s US trip, source says
From CNN’s Matthew Chance

Tight security has been enforced around the short visit of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to the US amid concerns that Russia wants to incapacitate the president, a source close to the Ukrainian leader told CNN on Wednesday.
According to the source, because of that ongoing threat, senior top government officials as well as embassy staff in the US were not informed about the schedule of Zelensky’s visit.
The source added that Zelensky had wanted to travel to the US for a few months, but certain factors had to be considered.
According to the source, the military risk had to be calculated to allow the Ukrainian president to make the short overseas trip without jeopardizing the military situation in the country.
Scheduling also had to be worked out with the White House to assess availability for it to happen, the source added.
The source told CNN that Zelensky did not want to travel if there had not been a significant development in the bilateral relationship between Ukraine and the United States. After confirmation of the Biden administration’s plan to send a new defense assistance package to Ukraine — which includes the Patriot missile defense systems — Zelensky viewed it as a major shift in the relationship between the two allies.

US secretary of state: Patriot air defense system included in $1.85 billion security assistance for Ukraine
Form CNN's Kylie Atwood


US Secretary of State Antony Blinken speaks at the State Department in Washington, DC, on December 12.
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken speaks at the State Department in Washington, DC, on December 12. (Evelyn Hockstein/Pool/AFP/Getty Images)

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken announced an additional $1.85 billion in security assistance for Ukraine, including the first transfer of the Patriot missile defense system.
“Pursuant to a delegation of authority from the President, today I am authorizing our twenty-eighth drawdown of U.S. arms and equipment for Ukraine since August 2021. This $1 billion drawdown will provide Ukraine with expanded air defense and precision-strike capabilities, as well as additional munitions and critical equipment that Ukraine is using so effectively to defend itself on the battlefield,” Blinken said in a statement.
Blinken added that the Pentagon will also announce $850 million of new security assistance for Ukraine today. His statement followed a similar statement from the White House, all coming the same day as President Volodymyr Zelensky’s visit to Washington.
The top US diplomat said that this new support comes as the Kremlin “has tried and failed to wipe Ukraine off the map” and is now seeking to “weaponize winter” with strikes on infrastructure.
The Patriot system is an advanced long-range air defense system that is highly effective at intercepting ballistic and cruise missiles.
“Today’s assistance for the first time includes the Patriot Air Defense System, capable of bringing down cruise missiles, short range ballistic missiles, and aircraft at a significantly higher ceiling than previously provided air defense systems,” Blinken said.
Blinken reiterated that the US will continue “to support Ukraine for as long as it takes, so that Kyiv can continue to defend itself and be in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table when the time comes.��
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Putin will probably wait until the new congress before launching a new invasion from Belarus. The democrats will use it to immediately put the heat on the republicans in the house for another arms package and use it to divide the conservatives from the magats. It will be symbolic, Ukraine's needs will be covered already for such a thing and I don't think the Russians will get very far inside the border before dying in large numbers at the hands of mostly Ukrainain territorials.

It will be a good way to single out and isolate the magats in the house as Trump goes down over the documents. Trump will keep them busy on the courthouse steps rioting with the mob, or call them RINOs if they don't go to the wall and beyond for him. Donald is rapidly shrinking though and the hawking the hero cards never helped his image at all, he will soon be small enough for Jack to handle with ease, as he is steadily whittled down to size and that size is small!
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Note the plane, for Russia to try and shoot it down would be an act of war against the USA, the last thing Vlad needs now.

Zelensky says he is in Washington to thank the American people for their "much-needed support"
From CNN's Radina Gigova


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, left, is greeted by US chief of protocol Rufus Gifford after landing in the United States on Wednesday.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, left, is greeted by US chief of protocol Rufus Gifford after landing in the United States on Wednesday. (Ukrainian Presidency)

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Wednesday he is in Washington, DC, to thank the American people, US President Joe Biden and Congress for their "much-needed support."
"I am in Washington today to thank the American people, the President and the Congress for their much-needed support. And also to continue cooperation to bring our victory closer," Zelensky said in a post on his official Telegram channel.
"I will hold a series of negotiations to strengthen the resilience and defense capabilities of Ukraine. In particular, we will discuss bilateral cooperation between Ukraine and the United States of America with US President Joseph Biden," he said.
"Next year, we must return the Ukrainian flag and freedom to our entire land, to all our people," he said.
This is Zelensky's first overseas visit since Russia invaded his country in late February.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
read://https_www.theatlantic.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theatlantic.com%2Fideas%2Farchive%2F2022%2F12%2Fvolodymyr-zelensky-visit-ukraine-united-states%2F672528%2F
Zelensky Knows the Clock Is Ticking
Ukraine’s president is rushing to the United States for good reason.
A photo of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky

Ukrainian Presidential Press Office / AP

When Volodymyr Zelensky arrives in Washington—his first time leaving Ukraine since the Russian invasion last winter—he will find a city that is even more obsessed with itself than usual. The Republicans are about to take over the House with a tiny majority and a passel of empowered kooks, and a congressional committee has recommended that a former president of the United States be prosecuted for an attempt to defeat the constitutional transfer of power.

The American drama is important and the stakes for democracy are high, but President Zelensky will touch down in D.C. for a visit to the White House and a joint address to Congress after leaving a war zone where he and his compatriots are literally fighting for their lives and for the survival of their nation against a Russian dictator who intends to erase Ukraine as an independent state from the map.

Washington is already shutting down for the holidays, but the timing of Zelensky’s visit makes sense. Ukrainian cities have been bombarded by the Russians yet again over the past few days in an attempt to break the country’s will to fight. The ground war is otherwise in something like a strategic pause, as Russian President Vladimir Putin gives his forces time to regroup in advance of what will likely be another set of offensives. Putin is in Belarus—the logical jumping-off point for another run at Kyiv—where he is making a public show of giving a belly scratch to his favorite foreign sheepdog, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko.
Franklin Foer: A prayer for Volodymyr Zelensky

In the United States, meanwhile, the Biden administration is about to send a Patriot air-defense battery to Ukraine, an important addition to its ability to defend against Russian air and missile attacks. This is a significant step that will require training Ukrainians to operate the Patriot system and deepen cooperation between the United States, NATO, and Ukraine. Congress, meanwhile, is about to decide on sending billions more in aid. Ukraine needs this money not only to continue the fight but also for its people to survive as they face a harsh winter of violence from the man who vows not to end this war until Ukraine is under his control.

It seems apparent that Zelensky decided to make the trip to Washington because he is worried about the imminent GOP takeover of the House. He should be. Many of the Republicans who are about to become members of the majority—and to chair committees—have descended into reflexive mulishness about Ukraine, opposing whatever it is that President Joe Biden wants, solely as a matter of partisan showboating. Goaded on by the trolls and contrarians in the conservative press, people who professed to care little what was happening in Ukraine a year ago have pledged to exercise tight “oversight” of U.S. aid to Ukraine—as though the largest war in Europe since World War II is an over-budget consulting contract in suburban Virginia.

We do not yet know what Zelensky intends to say during this visit, particularly in his address to Congress. If all goes as planned, he will receive a boost in the international community from a handshake with Biden, who has done a masterful job of holding the Western alliance together in the face of Putin’s threats. (A White House meeting would also likely produce another jolt of vitriol in Moscow; the last missile barrage was almost certainly a response to the news about the Patriot missiles.) Zelensky is poised to move from being a beleaguered regional leader sending videos from a bunker to taking a place, well deserved and overdue, on the world stage as a statesman more than equal to the panicking KGB officer who is trying to kill him.
Anne Applebaum and Jeffrey Goldberg: Liberation without victory

The real question, though, is whether anything Zelensky can say will matter to a Republican Party that has decided to torment the ghost of Ronald Reagan by taking sides with a neo-imperial Soviet nostalgist.

Overall, of course, rank-and-file Republicans support aiding Ukraine against Russia. But the Trumpian GOP is now controlled by its fringe, the same activists and primary voters who wear the I’d rather be a Russian than a Democrat T-shirts. Although much of the aid for Ukraine (including the Patriot system) is already in the pipeline, GOP grandstanding for the base could create more danger for Ukraine by encouraging Putin to believe that America’s commitment to freedom will wane over time. Indeed, the Russian president’s decision to invade Ukraine, as The New York Times reported this weekend, was predicated in part on his belief in the West’s weakness and short attention span.

Republicans performing for their base are unlikely to change their views now. But Zelensky is about to speak to all of America, and his presence in Washington will help remind people that this is not some esoteric foreign-policy tangle, but a brutal, bloody human contest between democracy and authoritarianism. His presence in front of a divided Congress might—at least, we can hope—help Americans ignore the cartoonish objections of right-wing pundits and strengthen the broader bipartisan coalition in the United States dedicated to protecting freedom in Europe and around the world.

The war in Ukraine is not over. When the Ukrainian president speaks on Wednesday, he will be a symbol not only of one nation’s struggle against the Kremlin, but of the global fight for democracy. Unfortunately, it is a fight with multiple fronts—and that includes Capitol Hill.
 
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