Hamas offensive against Israel

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Now there’s a fact most should be able to not deny.

Regardless of where on the spectrum Israel’s current leader resides, the criticism, especially the unfair, would be similar. As has been evident over the past several decades. The fact they're dealing like most western nations with a shift to the right results in a skewed narrative that could now even lead to a silly conclusion such as 'Hamas saved Israel from fascism'. 56% of Israelis want Netanyahu to quit ’after this crisis’ and a much large percentage blames him and his government. Coincidentally almost the same % of Palestinians that would not vote Hamas again (in the hypothetical situation they'd allow elections). Yet that makes Palestinians a victim of their leadership, and Israel a 'fascist state'. Brought to you from the upside down where Ukrainians are nazis and US is trolling China with spy balloons and of course "both sides bad".

Netanyahu is a problem, especially for many Israelis, he's not the problem, not the cause (in the same way Trump is a product of the real problems).

Now if Russia terrorizes Poland, with its far right government and religious conservatives opposing liberty, democracy and equality... Somehow the solidarity shared by people on the left in other western nations isn't extended to Israelis.

What do you call people who migrate or flee to the land where previous generations had settlements? Depends on the people and destination. In most cases it's immigrant or refugees, in one specific case it's colonists & occupiers, even their kids and grandkids.

Israel is their final stronghold against this discrepancy they cannot afford to accept again. The only place in the world where people don't repeat the same thing that could be heard in across the globe when the nazis started implementing apartheid for jews: "they kinda brought it upon themselves, surely they must have done something to deserve it". The west could give up Afghanistan, Israel doesn't have that luxury to leave the mess in Far-away-istan, it's their fascist neighbors that cannot be negotiated with and which they are forced to deal with, with force.

Last (rather discuss this topic in a more reasonable and rational fashion) but not least, targetting civilians isn’t the same as collateral damage. There’s good reasons civilized nations consider it a war crime for soldiers to hide in civilian buildings, whether it’s a home or hospital. Life ain’t disney, it‘s a bitch and then you die. That’s why I get high, and some of you are f.o.s.
Both sides want the same land, Hamas wants genocide and the destruction of Israel and yes, the Palestinians are the victims of their own choices and idiotic leadership, it is what the politics of grievance and war, legitimate or not, throws up sometimes. Israel must deal with their made for TV atrocity that pissed off the nation and the soldiers going into Gaza now. We hope to see some restraint on the part of the Israelis, but the goal of Hamas is to get the body count of Israeli soldiers and Palestinian civilian casualties as high as they can before being snuffed out. They want to draw the Israelis into costly urban combat with its high casualties. They hoped to bargain for their skins and make a TV spectacle of the hostage situation, but I think Bebe more or less wrote them off. They will rescue who they can, but I wouldn't count on too many getting out alive. The goal of the international community is now to save as many civilian lives as they can from the retribution, Israel will take care of the justice part.
 

k0rps

Well-Known Member
Regardless of where on the spectrum Israel’s current leader resides, the criticism, especially the unfair, would be similar. As has been evident over the past several decades. The fact they're dealing like most western nations with a shift to the right results in a skewed narrative that could now even lead to a silly conclusion such as 'Hamas saved Israel from fascism'. 56% of Israelis want Netanyahu to quit ’after this crisis’ and a much large percentage blames him and his government. Coincidentally almost the same % of Palestinians that would not vote Hamas again (in the hypothetical situation they'd allow elections). Yet that makes Palestinians a victim of their leadership, and Israel a 'fascist state'. Brought to you from the upside down where Ukrainians are nazis and US is trolling China with spy balloons and of course "both sides bad".

Netanyahu is a problem, especially for many Israelis, he's not the problem, not the cause (in the same way Trump is a product of the real problems).
"For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.

The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad."

"Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015."

What is the problem?

What do you call people who migrate or flee to the land where previous generations had settlements? Depends on the people and destination. In most cases it's immigrant or refugees, in one specific case it's colonists & occupiers, even their kids and grandkids.
You're referring to the Palestinians who were raped, pillaged and murdered when Zionist "refugee" soldiers came to occupy (the land Arab's have lived on for thousands of years) in 1948? Here's a couple first hand accounts of soldiers from that war:

Israel is their final stronghold against this discrepancy they cannot afford to accept again. The only place in the world where people don't repeat the same thing that could be heard in across the globe when the nazis started implementing apartheid for jews: "they kinda brought it upon themselves, surely they must have done something to deserve it". The west could give up Afghanistan, Israel doesn't have that luxury to leave the mess in Far-away-istan, it's their fascist neighbors that cannot be negotiated with and which they are forced to deal with, with force.

Last (rather discuss this topic in a more reasonable and rational fashion) but not least, targetting civilians isn’t the same as collateral damage. There’s good reasons civilized nations consider it a war crime for soldiers to hide in civilian buildings, whether it’s a home or hospital. Life ain’t disney, it‘s a bitch and then you die. That’s why I get high, and some of you are f.o.s.
So far..
Hamas’ attack on Israel last Saturday killed more than 1,300 people, and the Israeli military’s retaliation has claimed more than 2,200 lives in Gaza.

The Gaza Strip is home to more than 2 million Palestinians, about half of them struggling to evacuate to the south ahead of Israel’s expected invasion. President Biden has pledged U.S. support for Israelis, condemning the “evil” perpetrated by Hamas.

“What’s most disturbing for us beside the worry and concern is that the U.S. and other countries are urging this on and sending aid to Israel and they’re not mentioning de-escalation and they’re not mentioning Palestinian civilians,” Wael Buhaissy, an electrical engineer from San Ramon whose extended family lives in the Gaza Strip, said during Saturday’s march.

"We are standing in unequivocal solidarity with Palestinians demanding an immediate end to the genocide that is occurring against Palestinians,” said Ariel Koren, an organizer with Jewish Voice for Peace.

“Our elected officials are funding this genocide,” Koren said. “As we speak, the United States government provides $4 billion in military aid to Israel every single year … we are also calling on officials to stop making us all in this country complicit.”

Suzanne Ali, an organizer for the Palestinian Youth Movement, a transnational group of Palestinian and Arab youth, said: “We want to call attention to the fact that it is unconscionable for the U.S. to fund the massacres and genocides of Palestinian people. The root of violence is the occupation. We want all people to live freely.”

Ali, whose extended family members live in southern Gaza, said she hasn’t been able to reach them for two days.

“I have no idea how they’re doing, because the Wi-Fi is so unstable,” she said. “The shock that I feel the most is that Israel is able to commit massive war crimes.”


Edit: changed "Israeli" to the correct title "Zionist"
 
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bursto

Well-Known Member
Nah man. This is the beginning of Armageddon as long prophesied. We'll be wishing it was just WW III.

You ain't seen nothin' yet.

:peace:
who knew hell will get filled, by all these famous people,

how can anyone acknowledge Lucifer and practice witchcraft and not realize god who created lucifer is also real. :wall:
thats a special type of stupidity and greed
 
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CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
Now there’s a fact most should be able to not deny.

Regardless of where on the spectrum Israel’s current leader resides, the criticism, especially the unfair, would be similar. As has been evident over the past several decades. The fact they're dealing like most western nations with a shift to the right results in a skewed narrative that could now even lead to a silly conclusion such as 'Hamas saved Israel from fascism'. 56% of Israelis want Netanyahu to quit ’after this crisis’ and a much large percentage blames him and his government. Coincidentally almost the same % of Palestinians that would not vote Hamas again (in the hypothetical situation they'd allow elections). Yet that makes Palestinians a victim of their leadership, and Israel a 'fascist state'. Brought to you from the upside down where Ukrainians are nazis and US is trolling China with spy balloons and of course "both sides bad".

Netanyahu is a problem, especially for many Israelis, he's not the problem, not the cause (in the same way Trump is a product of the real problems).

Now if Russia terrorizes Poland, with its far right government and religious conservatives opposing liberty, democracy and equality... Somehow the solidarity shared by people on the left in other western nations isn't extended to Israelis.

What do you call people who migrate or flee to the land where previous generations had settlements? Depends on the people and destination. In most cases it's immigrant or refugees, in one specific case it's colonists & occupiers, even their kids and grandkids.

Israel is their final stronghold against this discrepancy they cannot afford to accept again. The only place in the world where people don't repeat the same thing that could be heard in across the globe when the nazis started implementing apartheid for jews: "they kinda brought it upon themselves, surely they must have done something to deserve it". The west could give up Afghanistan, Israel doesn't have that luxury to leave the mess in Far-away-istan, it's their fascist neighbors that cannot be negotiated with and which they are forced to deal with, with force.

Last (rather discuss this topic in a more reasonable and rational fashion) but not least, targetting civilians isn’t the same as collateral damage. There’s good reasons civilized nations consider it a war crime for soldiers to hide in civilian buildings, whether it’s a home or hospital. Life ain’t disney, it‘s a bitch and then you die. That’s why I get high, and some of you are f.o.s.
Articulate and intelligent,wish you were American.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Nah man. This is the beginning of Armageddon as long prophesied. We'll be wishing it was just WW III.

You ain't seen nothin' yet.

:peace:
That part of the bible was the result of schizophrenic hallucinations, maybe mushrooms, I do a better job of prophesy! :lol: Some though want to make it a self-fulfilling prophesy and are guided by both ancient and modern lunatics.
 

k0rps

Well-Known Member
What I got from the first video, she says Israel is at fault being the occupier but when the topic of Hamas's goal is the destruction of Israel she deflects and repeats what the Palestinians are living under. Then when she says that a single state is the solution she ignores the 2,000+ years of history where Jews did not have their own land and suffered at the hands of others living in that country.

The second vid, generally agree with him.
Can you (or anyone willing) provide examples of how the Jews were treated in Arab lands before the Zionist occupation? Here's a couple examples I found..

"Until the 19th century, Jews, like Christians, were protected minorities, or dhimmis. Although they did not enjoy the same legal status as Muslims and were sometimes persecuted and subjected to violence, they were free to practise their religion and guaranteed a good deal of communal autonomy, he noted.

Schroeter maintained that Jews were not second-class citizens because the concept of citizenship did not yet exist. But Jews and Muslims were keenly aware of the boundaries that set them apart, however porous they may have been.

Jews and Muslims often mingled freely at markets, bath houses and coffee shops and shared the same culture because they both spoke Arabic, he said. And as the owners of shops, banks and factories, Jews also interacted with Muslims.

In Morocco, Jewish peddlers hawking their wares were a fairly common sight in rural areas, said Schroeter, an expert on Moroccan Jews.

According to Schroeter, the status of Jews in Ottoman-controlled lands changed significantly when the Ottoman sultan introduced “tanzimat” reforms in 1839 to modernize the empire and secure its territorial integrity against encroaching foreign powers and local nationalist groups.

This reform era, lasting until 1876, sought to integrate non-Muslims into Ottoman society by enhancing their civil liberties and granting them civic equality. As a result, Jews gradually shed their dhimmi status.

By then, external powers like Britain and France had begun to court and protect Jews and Christians so as to extend their influence in the empire. This development caused tension between Muslims and Jews, he said."


"Jews under Islamic rule were given the status of dhimmi, along with certain other pre-Islamic religious groups.[1] Though second-class citizens and often persecuted, these non-Muslim groups were nevertheless accorded certain rights and protections as "people of the book". During waves of persecution in Medieval Europe, many Jews found refuge in Muslim lands."

"By the mid-1970s the vast majority of Jews had left, fled or had been expelled from Arab and Muslim-majority countries, moving primarily to Israel, France and the United States.[31] The reasons for the exodus are varied and disputed.[31] In 1945, there were between 758,000 and 866,000 Jews living in communities throughout the Arab world. Today, there are fewer than 8,000. In some Arab states, such as Libya, which once had a Jewish population of around 3 percent (similar proportion as that of the United States today), the Jewish community no longer exists; in other Arab countries, only a few hundred Jews remain."



"Zionism is only around 100 years old. It is the transformation from religion to nationalism, to materialism created by non-religious Jews who hated their religion. The reason why they use the name Israel, the Star of David, hijacking, stealing the identity of Judaism and the Jewish people is in order to gain a legitimacy for their existence that should lead people to say, 'oh, it is God given to them' and that they should use fear and intimidate people from speaking out against their actions because they will call those that do anti Semitic; it couldn't be anything further from the Truth." - Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss
 
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printer

Well-Known Member
Can you (or anyone willing) provide examples of how the Jews were treated in Arab lands before the Zionist occupation? Here's a couple examples I found..
I read up about the history a few years ago, came away with nationalists set the stage and stroked the division between the Jews and Arabs, on the Arab side they had the same type of people. The two sides kept escalating tensions between the people and militia's formed. Things just went downhill from there.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
The Palestinians lost the wars, and this is the result of several that included their Arab friends. They had bad leadership from the beginning, and this is the final result of a history of international terrorism, enemies accumulate while friends come and go. I know all about the stuff you've been snowing under the thread with, so do others here. American presidents have struggled to find a solution for decades and are often at odds with Israel about it. Israel cannot tolerate terrorism, no country can, and they will find their own most unpleasant solution to it. The Palestinians lost the struggle for hearts and minds long ago in the west and it only our pity and international law that saves them from an even worse fate. He who controls the state controls property rights and everything else.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Israel has to be careful here not to lose public support in allied nations by committing genocidal acts. They should have learned a lesson or two from the Ukraine war about the value of PR and following the rules of war and international law. The civilian body count can only go so high before concerns are raised and questions asked, then there are the ubiquitous video cameras witnessing much, even from drones.

 
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