Drop That Sound
Well-Known Member
HID can be made into panels just like LEDs, with a bunch of lower wattage bulbs with smaller dome reflectors, all setup in a grid formation that is spread out more evenly over the canopy.
Are 600w hps being discontinued??
- Thread starter dredra
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Drop That Sound
Well-Known Member
Then again, LED can be made into omni directional tube lights. Neither tech is really special in those regards IMO.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but your still achieving 180° throw thru the help of a reflector with very real losses. Led gets 120° throw without any costs.
DanKiller
Well-Known Member
Sorry man, ppfd is not total output of a light source, even though you wish it to be.
LM is total light output measurement as you cannot test ppfd and know what total output this light makes, only how much falls on 1 spot, which is not how to measure total light output.
You say it is or it's not important is your opinion and your entitled to it, but it's not science, don't mix the two.
"theoretical gross output sphere measurements you may be referring to."
So all those companies that measure light in spheres are just fools you say... Interesting.
301H Evo on Samsung site shows 40LM for each 0.2w diode, Samsung are idiots too ?
Right...
Understand very simple thing, LM and PAR both represent total wavelengths at the growing spectrum, PAR just narrows that spectrum some more because of new conclusions but still not conclusive.
Still, LM is the only way to measure total light output of a light source.
DanKiller
Well-Known Member
Again, this doesn't mean anything, just means leds spread light better, we already know this.
If you think totaling a system which has a super reflector (led) to poor reflection HIDs and compare the 2 in ppfd, your just not understanding basic light principles
Under that CMH directly is more ppfd than any led system can deliver, when you start totaling the sides with the center point, the map downgrade drastically in HIDs, but again, that only prove leds spread better.
So in terms of compare, you simply can't.
They don't spread light in the same way, measuring spread in led (ppfd) vs measuring spread of hid reflectors is bro science.
they are not the same.
that's why total output of a system, not how much that system spread light, is a more logic way of comparing the two.
I run 3 450watt mars hydros in a 8x8 gorilla dialed in at 46-47%” in the front right corner of my tent closest to window, i run a batwing with a hps 600 watt oshio for heat in a magnetic ballast… and when i pull a plant from the led’s to the ushio wich i usually do with my favs the last week of flower.. It turn’s em from dark green to yellow in just 2 waterings and its the strongest fuken weed ii eva smoked my lyfe… boil your water to soften it or use rain water
TheWholeTruth
Well-Known Member
So are you saying a 300 wat cmh directly under it is the strongest ppfd than any 300wat led can deliver , or 600 wat cmh directly under it is the strongest ppfd than any 600watt led can diliver durectly under it. Can you list all the leds youve tested this way and the exact cmh you tested to come to this conclusion so ww can verify this claim. As wat for what its allready confirmed led puts out more light and ppfd.
To many ppl make these sorts of claims yet never tell us exactly how they came to this conclusion, ie which exact things were tested. Yeah i could have 300wats of led chips on a 1mtr x 1mtr board spread out completly over it and right under the centre of it it might come out lower than the ppfd directly under a 300 wat cmh. But try the same thing with 300 wats of high quality led's put on a panel the same size as the cmh bulb and ther is no way the cmh is going to give out more ppfd directly under it.
TheWholeTruth
Well-Known Member
It dont realy matter what the total light output is. You can have a bulb giving off just yellow and green light that gives off a high light output but it makes zero sense as the plants dont see light in that way. Ppfd is a mesurement of the waves of light the plant uses, it basicly a way of messuring what is usable by the plant or the light the plant sees that it uses.
Although most ppfd meters need to be adjusted to read some wave lenghths the plant uses as the ppfd meters dont messure some wavelenghths that good, such as uv and ir. Another thing wen messuring ppfd ppl dond do is you can change the angles the ppfd sensor is pointing and this will give you diffrent reading depending on were your messuring from in your grow room as the leaves can turn at diffrent angles to pick up the most light it possibly can rather than just pointing the meter straight up when it away from directly under the light.
To be honest these conversations are pointless, forums are full of them, yet not one person who still argues glass bulbs/ street lights are better than led has actualy put up the evidence of how they come to this conclussion, such as all the led lights and builds they have properly tested and recorded all the multiple ppfd readings from vs hid/cmh/nh and the multiple readings readings at multiple distances and in diffrent areas of the groing area or from each leaf on the plant at the angles each leaf is facing.
Then ive also seen some ppl saying leds dont have far red or ir, yet im not sure which adjusted ppfd meter they have used in testing to come up with this cus if you was to use a adjusted ppfd meter i know more than a few lights that have good amounts of ddep deep red/ir that are so far into the red/ir spectrum that those wavelenghths are shown as brown on the charts.
The carts and the proof are ther to show led wat for wat can give off more plant usable light than any hid/mh or cmh, yet no proof to say the other way around. What would be the point to put a product that costs more if it puts out less plant useble light at a certain wattage. Tech dont go backwards , it goes forwards. Led tech isnt just about groing cannabis, its tech going forward in all areas of lighting from glass gass type bulbs which is old old tech now.
Jonesfamily7715
Well-Known Member
Cmh supplemented with led has given me my absolute best results so far, as far as bud quality and effect. I did shut down my cmh fixtures last week because it's just to hot but when things cool back down I plan on putting them back up. Another thing I have noticed, for me at least, I have been getting better results when using several smaller led fixtures coming in at different directions, like from the sides and corners at a 45°.
It’s funny I've been out of the game several yrs myself(I got sick n just couldn’t keep up) after growing nearly 12 yrs.lost a stable of awesome mothers it took me yrs to collect. I worked at the grow store n made lottta contacts for clones.
I’m sorta n the same boat with the leds being the new goto. The upfront cost is a little more but daily power consumption goes way down.these are new generation LED’s they seemed to have sorted em out. It’d be nice to be able to dial in the red or blue to taste.im considering redoing my room completely.maybe ill just do a run first sign the old 2x1000 hps set up. See if I wanna go all in again. I built it as I acquired gear.It works but was never as I wanted it. I’m not looking forward to starting from seed to Mother’s. Lord if I started today, it’d be 4 months easy til I can even start flowering. Best of luck to ya
Billy the Mountain
Well-Known Member
If converting electricity to heat is your objective, a 1000w HID may indeed be the best choice in your environment.
For growers who prioritize light output over heat, there are better options available.
DanKiller
Well-Known Member
HIDs today are the golden std of light making.
No other light source can compare, not yet.
LEDs do make more light but for the price of emitting excessive and dangerous radiation (RF, EMF) which is damaging tissues in humans, plants and animals.
That's why LED bud doesn't "hit the mouth right" sort of speak.
If you wish to have a sun like light source in your grows, go HIDs, if you can handle the heat, no other light source other than the sun can come close.
No other light source can compare, not yet.
LEDs do make more light but for the price of emitting excessive and dangerous radiation (RF, EMF) which is damaging tissues in humans, plants and animals.
That's why LED bud doesn't "hit the mouth right" sort of speak.
If you wish to have a sun like light source in your grows, go HIDs, if you can handle the heat, no other light source other than the sun can come close.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
So, I'm not too fluent in light spectrum, but I found this. The first Pic is the spectrum of the sun, at a certain time, and place.
The second is for hps and led lighting.....
Now, maybe it's just me, but neither one come close to the spectrum of the sun, but I'd have to say the led comes closer.
Is there something I'm missing or not understanding here?
DanKiller
Well-Known Member
The picture you post is a industry lie, leds don't emit a "full spectrum" like this but very low intensity in 60-70% of spectrums so they can claim "some" power goes to those wavelengths but at such low intensity it doesn't mean anything.
LEDs peak at very narrow blue and red spectrums, all the rest is left to suffer.
And, even if leds reach 100 cri, which you can have a system like that diy, you still emit a high amount of radiation to your plants from up close.
Imagine growing your weed in a microwave oven that's turned on at low rating, 24/7.
That's the closest analogy to growing with them.
The qualities (noble gases, magnetization) of HIDs which mimik the sun are not present at led lights, which make them better at making light but worse at being a sun replica light
LEDs peak at very narrow blue and red spectrums, all the rest is left to suffer.
And, even if leds reach 100 cri, which you can have a system like that diy, you still emit a high amount of radiation to your plants from up close.
Imagine growing your weed in a microwave oven that's turned on at low rating, 24/7.
That's the closest analogy to growing with them.
The qualities (noble gases, magnetization) of HIDs which mimik the sun are not present at led lights, which make them better at making light but worse at being a sun replica light
Jonesfamily7715
Well-Known Member
Both sides of these arguments bend the facts to their favor. You will never get a clear answer especially on an Internet forum. The only way to figure this question out is try all forms of lighting for yourself, there are pros and cons to all grow lights and everyone's situation is different.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
Ok, like I said, I'm not real fluent on light spectrum.
Where can I find the studies that show leds put out weak spectrum?
DanKiller
Well-Known Member
Sorry to burst your bubble, no one is bending facts, leds emit a high amount of RF / EMF
Fact, proven, go research.
You don't have to experiment in order to know what is already known.
LEDs make more light but a far cry from being a sun like light source.
Sun heals, LEDs kill.
Fact, proven, go research.
You don't have to experiment in order to know what is already known.
LEDs make more light but a far cry from being a sun like light source.
Sun heals, LEDs kill.