lets talk israel

diemdepyro

Well-Known Member
Good point there max420thc. Do two wrongs ever make a right......
what the hell is that.

Devils advocate here.
What do you do when rockets are falling on you? Drop origami birds or bombs?
 

darrendiablo

Active Member
my 2p worth:)
it is only reported by the isralie sources that it was the hama's rebels that started the rockets going over that began the end of the so called cease-fire when in fact palestine sources say that the cease-fire never began what with the isralies constantly guarding and attacking their neighbors- so 2 sides to each story.
and we were told here in the uk by an isralie oficial "what would we do if a neighbouring country started throwing rockets at our civilians?" well for those of us that lived through the 70s 80s and 90s we indeed did have that problem where the irish were bombing civilian hotels etc, did we retaliate by just bombing southern ireland to bits?? nar dont think so, not our style and now we have managed one of the only real agreements that mean anyting--the good friday agreement and the pointless/aimless/mindless killings from both sides has now ceased.
so in short nah air bombing civilians just dont work---ANYWHERE!!
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
This comparison with native Americans is crazy. Technology and encentives and too many other variables come into play that make the situations completely different.

The ceasefire was agreed upon by both sides, except Israel kept the blockade on Gaza and didn't let anything but humanitarian supplies reach inside the borders, effectively maintaining a shortage of resources and medical supplies and food and water from the citizens. Also, Hamas members were transporting weapons in tunnels near the border as reported in November and Israel launched an airstrike killing 6 of them. You could argue Israel is the one who broke the ceasefire agreement, technically.

Bottom line, we are supporting the wrong side and Israel is clearly at fault. Hamas fires rockets into Israel because Israel keeps them hungry and steals/occupies their territory, Hamas leaders have officially said this. That's the motivation. We support Israel, and things like 911 happen, then they spit things like 'they're trying to take your freedom!' and the public buys it... you seriously couldn't write it any crazier...

Who does W. support in this conflict again? oh, right... (lol, just kidding)
 

OregonMeds

Well-Known Member
See why marijuana is illegal? Makes people think and talk too much, not just busy living your sheeplike lives in the dark with just one side of the argument. God damn pot smoking hippies did that same crap back during the vietnam war, that's why nixon put his foot down and tore up the Shafer commision reporton Marijuana that that didn't support his stance on the war against pot.

They're still trying to take a big fat shit on all of us pot smokers because of this thinking/talking thing... Doesn't help the cause of keeping people ignorant.
 

cheeseysynapse

Well-Known Member
Ok, I steal your shit, and wont give it back... what compromise do you suggest...

I roll over and play dead...

Pall, I live in south africa, where I am told my ancestors came, and stole the land... and guess what. They are all gone.. but decendants are quickly loosing all control and the hold on real estate... do not expect any exceptions in israel.
First of all, Israel stole nothing. The Allies stole it. Britain and the U.S. and France carved up that desert and gave it to Jews.

You pull up a modern day map of the middle east. Who drew those borders? Britain did! And somehow.........after all these years........the Arabs are fine with them. So, they did it again. And gave a sliver of it to the Jews.

Why is it this conflict gets so much media attention? Darfur gets none. The slaughter in Somalia got none. Why so with this one? The Europeans are guilt ridden over their past. Everyone quickly acknowledges that what happened to the Jews during WW2 was a disgrace. How did we "rectify" that? We went in to what is now Israel.......and ripped the Arabs out of there. We figured the Arabs have plenty of land. Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon............Surely, the "Palestinians" can find a home in one of those countries, we thought. They were driven out. Israel let them come back, work and live.

Now, Pally, if the Europeans want to wash their hands of the peace made following WW2, that's their right. But, don't expect the Jews to indulge themselves in same crippling self-loathing the Europeans do. And, if Europe really wants to "right" the "injustice"...........They, not the palestinians should jump in their tanks, grab a rifle, and move the Jews out of Israel. Otherwise, they should keep their fucking mouths shut, because they are too pussy to do the job themselves.
 

cheeseysynapse

Well-Known Member
Well.........Lookey here.......Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

"CAIRO: A sustained Israeli ground operation in Gaza would sharply increase public pressure on President Hosni Mubarak of Egypt to do more to help the Palestinians of Gaza, despite widespread feelings here that the radical group Hamas provoked the current crisis."

"Those demanding that Egypt open the Gaza border do not understand the dangers, said Samir Abdel Haadi. "If we opened it, we'd be the Iraq of the Palestinians," he said. "There will be terrorism in the Sinai, and that's our country."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/02/mideast/egypt.php

Not even the Egyptians want the terrorists in their country.
 

cheeseysynapse

Well-Known Member
Oh so much was made about Israel building a wall on its Gaza border.

Even Bansky made some graffiti there.........

I wonder......has bansky made graffiti on the Egyptian wall as well?

The point is, everyone condemns Israel for building a wall to keep the Palestinians out, while you hear next to nothing about Egypt and its wall.
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
First of all, Israel stole nothing. The Allies stole it. Britain and the U.S. and France carved up that desert and gave it to Jews.
In my language we have a saying, which translates to the dealer (the guy who devides up the loot) is as good as the stealer.

But I agree, the countries who set up this scam country for their own underhand goals, need to take in any israeli's not willing to live under palistinian majority rule...

Israel is nothing more than a proxy precence for the west in the arab world
 

HighPlainsDrifter

Active Member
They better ride those shitty rockets to the moon. Theyd have a better chance with that than the odds theyll have with IDF.

Moral of the story, keep yer rocket in yer pants, er somebody's gonna kick yer ass.

Not even the insane, fucked in the head arab world will come to hamas aid.

The rest of the world needs to stay out of it, and let israel take out the trash.
 

Attachments

AlphaNoN

Well-Known Member
There's about 1.5 million people in Gaza, they have a right to live peaceful lives regardless of the crimes that the fringes of their society commit. Israel is punishing the whole of Gaza for crimes that few commit. Whichever way you lean, that is not an acceptable course of action.
 

AlphaNoN

Well-Known Member
Translation = "Israel is an ally of the United States and the only democracy in the Middle East. I am an America Hater and a socialist , therefore, I hate Israel."

Vi
Insofar as Israel's borders extend from the Jordan Valley to the Mediterranean Sea -- the de-facto situation for over 36 years -- then the state of Israel currently consists of a population of over 9 million people, 3.5 million of whom cannot vote.

De-facto, then, Israel is not a democracy. One-third of the demos does not enjoy a series of basic rights which make up the pillars of democracy. The state of Israel has existed for 55 years and has controlled the Palestinian population in the occupied territories without giving them political rights for two-thirds of this period. Accordingly, the notion that the occupation is provisional or temporary should, by now, be considered an illusion concealing the reality on the ground.

If, however, one chooses to explore the issue exclusively from a de-jure perspective, that is, from inside the internationally recognized pre-1967 territories, it is still unclear to what extent Israel is a democracy.

There is the question of 400,000 Jewish Settlers -- seven percent of the citizenry -- all of whom enjoy full citizenship rights but do not live in Israel proper. This leads to a series of contradictions, not least the fact that Israel is the only country in the world where government ministers and parliament members live permanently outside its borders.

Even if one were to disregard this reality as well and were only to take into account the six million people living inside Israel proper, one would find an extremely tenuous democracy. The contradictions that have characterized Israel's policies in the occupied territories are now catching up to the state, and their detrimental effects have become apparent for all to see.

Consider a report just published by the Israeli Democracy Institute (IDI), which like most other think tanks (in Israel and abroad), conceives of Israel in the de-jure sense, ignoring the de-facto situation. IDI examined several aspects of Israel's democracy, and its findings suggest that "over the last few years there has been a significant decline in the Jewish population's support of democratic norms on all levels: general support of the democratic system, support of specific democratic values, and support for equal rights for the Arab minority."

IDI found that only 77 percent of the Jewish population supports the statement that "democracy is the best form of government," the lowest percentage (alongside Poland) among the 32 countries for which there is available data. Over half the population (56%) is of the opinion that "strong leaders can be more useful to the state than all the deliberations and laws." Fifty percent concur that if there is a conflict between security interests and the preservation of the rule of law, the former should take precedence. And only 57 percent agree with the statement that violence should never be used to attain political objectives.

More than half of the Jews in Israel (53%) state that they are against full equality for the Arabs; 77 percent say there should be a Jewish majority on crucial political decisions; less than a third (31%) support having Arab political parties in the government; and the majority (57%) think that the Arabs should be encouraged to emigrate. Not only is the majority of the Jewish population against the provision of equal rights for Arab citizens, half of the Jews are even unwilling to face up to the fact that Palestinian citizens of Israel are discriminated against.

Public trust in institutions has also declined in recent years due to widespread corruption and a lack of social cohesion. Yet, tellingly, the Israeli military -- and not the legislature, courts or government ministries -- is the most trusted institution.

Even if one were to stubbornly hold on to the illusion that Israel exists only within the pre-1967 borders, one would still have to acquiesce that while democracy may exist, it now stands on very shaky grounds. The great political theorist Montesquieu taught us as much. In addition to his well known claim that freedom can be secured only through the separation of the legislative, judicial, and executive powers, he asserted that if a regime is to maintain its form, the norms and values held by a people must correspond with the regime's basic principles.

The IDI report clearly reveals that even within Israel proper the majority of the population no longer believes in the basic principles of democracy -- equality and freedom -- thus suggesting that democracy is in demise. If, however, one faces up to the fact that Israel's borders reach the Jordan Valley, then democracy simply does not exist.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Insofar as Israel's borders extend from the Jordan Valley to the Mediterranean Sea -- the de-facto situation for over 36 years -- then the state of Israel currently consists of a population of over 9 million people, 3.5 million of whom cannot vote.

De-facto, then, Israel is not a democracy. One-third of the demos does not enjoy a series of basic rights which make up the pillars of democracy. The state of Israel has existed for 55 years and has controlled the Palestinian population in the occupied territories without giving them political rights for two-thirds of this period. Accordingly, the notion that the occupation is provisional or temporary should, by now, be considered an illusion concealing the reality on the ground.

If, however, one chooses to explore the issue exclusively from a de-jure perspective, that is, from inside the internationally recognized pre-1967 territories, it is still unclear to what extent Israel is a democracy.

There is the question of 400,000 Jewish Settlers -- seven percent of the citizenry -- all of whom enjoy full citizenship rights but do not live in Israel proper. This leads to a series of contradictions, not least the fact that Israel is the only country in the world where government ministers and parliament members live permanently outside its borders.

Even if one were to disregard this reality as well and were only to take into account the six million people living inside Israel proper, one would find an extremely tenuous democracy. The contradictions that have characterized Israel's policies in the occupied territories are now catching up to the state, and their detrimental effects have become apparent for all to see.

Consider a report just published by the Israeli Democracy Institute (IDI), which like most other think tanks (in Israel and abroad), conceives of Israel in the de-jure sense, ignoring the de-facto situation. IDI examined several aspects of Israel's democracy, and its findings suggest that "over the last few years there has been a significant decline in the Jewish population's support of democratic norms on all levels: general support of the democratic system, support of specific democratic values, and support for equal rights for the Arab minority."

IDI found that only 77 percent of the Jewish population supports the statement that "democracy is the best form of government," the lowest percentage (alongside Poland) among the 32 countries for which there is available data. Over half the population (56%) is of the opinion that "strong leaders can be more useful to the state than all the deliberations and laws." Fifty percent concur that if there is a conflict between security interests and the preservation of the rule of law, the former should take precedence. And only 57 percent agree with the statement that violence should never be used to attain political objectives.

More than half of the Jews in Israel (53%) state that they are against full equality for the Arabs; 77 percent say there should be a Jewish majority on crucial political decisions; less than a third (31%) support having Arab political parties in the government; and the majority (57%) think that the Arabs should be encouraged to emigrate. Not only is the majority of the Jewish population against the provision of equal rights for Arab citizens, half of the Jews are even unwilling to face up to the fact that Palestinian citizens of Israel are discriminated against.

Public trust in institutions has also declined in recent years due to widespread corruption and a lack of social cohesion. Yet, tellingly, the Israeli military -- and not the legislature, courts or government ministries -- is the most trusted institution.

Even if one were to stubbornly hold on to the illusion that Israel exists only within the pre-1967 borders, one would still have to acquiesce that while democracy may exist, it now stands on very shaky grounds. The great political theorist Montesquieu taught us as much. In addition to his well known claim that freedom can be secured only through the separation of the legislative, judicial, and executive powers, he asserted that if a regime is to maintain its form, the norms and values held by a people must correspond with the regime's basic principles.

The IDI report clearly reveals that even within Israel proper the majority of the population no longer believes in the basic principles of democracy -- equality and freedom -- thus suggesting that democracy is in demise. If, however, one faces up to the fact that Israel's borders reach the Jordan Valley, then democracy simply does not exist.
I can't say that I blame them. They are surrounded by nations that have all at one time or another attempted to wipe them off the map. That tiny state of Israel is like a river facing a mountain. It may take it forever to finally carve a valley, but it's not going to stop until its done.

Mabe the Israeli's are sick of wondering if a stray rocket will kill them, or if a suicide bomber will find a way through the wall. All I know is that I'd probably be a little more vociferous in my choices for what should be done to the Palestinians if I was an Israeli.

Of course, what I can't understand is why so many people on this forums seem so ready to kiss their ass when the Muslims have been busy bombing our countries. The US, Spain, England, England some more, the US some more.

And we're supposed to feel sorry for them?

That's like asking a person holding a knife to your throat against your will to just hurry up and kill you.

What sort of rank stupidity permeates your cranial cavities?
 

natrone23

Well-Known Member
Of course, what I can't understand is why so many people on this forums seem so ready to kiss their ass when the Muslims have been busy bombing our countries. The US, Spain, England, England some more, the US some more.

And we're supposed to feel sorry for them?

That's like asking a person holding a knife to your throat against your will to just hurry up and kill you.

What sort of rank stupidity permeates your cranial cavities?
How many palestianians were involved in those bombings TBT? Or are you just one of those people who think all muslims are the same. Are you responsible for the crimes that russia commits because you are both christians?
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
Gaza City - Israeli fire killed a mother and four of her children in Gaza City on Monday, medics said.
The strike took place in the Chujaiya neighbourhood of the city, according to medics at Gaza's Shifa hospital. The deaths brought to nine the number of Palestinian children killed on Monday as Israel's offensive against the Hamas rulers of Gaza marked its 10th day.

Yep gotta kill all them evil kids hey?
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
I can't say that I blame them. They are surrounded by nations that have all at one time or another attempted to wipe them off the map. That tiny state of Israel is like a river facing a mountain. It may take it forever to finally carve a valley, but it's not going to stop until its done.

Mabe the Israeli's are sick of wondering if a stray rocket will kill them, or if a suicide bomber will find a way through the wall. All I know is that I'd probably be a little more vociferous in my choices for what should be done to the Palestinians if I was an Israeli.

Of course, what I can't understand is why so many people on this forums seem so ready to kiss their ass when the Muslims have been busy bombing our countries. The US, Spain, England, England some more, the US some more.

And we're supposed to feel sorry for them?

That's like asking a person holding a knife to your throat against your will to just hurry up and kill you.

What sort of rank stupidity permeates your cranial cavities?
Agreed. Those asshats shoot rockets into Israel then call foul when they are retaliated against.
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
How many palestianians were involved in those bombings TBT? Or are you just one of those people who think all muslims are the same. Are you responsible for the crimes that russia commits because you are both christians?
You are a nut job to think the poster is grouping all muslims based on that post. The issue is about the cowardly Hamas starting a firefight and how they should be held responsible.
 

natrone23

Well-Known Member
You are a nut job to think the poster is grouping all muslims based on that post. The issue is about the cowardly Hamas starting a firefight and how they should be held responsible.
your a retard of course he is lumping all muslims together, he said why should we give the palastians any sympathy (because there muslims) because "extremist muslims" attacked western targets(911). Thats where the russian christian comparison comes in smart one.........do i have to break everything down barney style for you parker

Of course, what I can't understand is why so many people on this forums seem so ready to kiss their ass when the Muslims have been busy bombing our countries. The US, Spain, England, England some more, the US some more.

?
 

diemdepyro

Well-Known Member
Gaza City - Israeli fire killed a mother and four of her children in Gaza City on Monday, medics said.
The strike took place in the Chujaiya neighbourhood of the city, according to medics at Gaza's Shifa hospital. The deaths brought to nine the number of Palestinian children killed on Monday as Israel's offensive against the Hamas rulers of Gaza marked its 10th day.

Yep gotta kill all them evil kids hey?
Yeah ,they grow up to be card carrying Islamic extremists
 
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