2 x 600w HPS VS. 1 x 1000w HPS What will yield more?

[VaporBros]

here is a CFL nug.

edit: With this being said, i dont care how huge of plants you can grow with HPS, CFLs CAN and WILL grow monster plants too. All you have to do is search the forums a little bit.

 

[easygrinder]

thats tighter bud than i see a lot of people get with hid, iits more of a game of spot the leaf in the calyx instead of the other way around like i see a lot

 

[BCtrippin]

Because CFL's produce more of their light in the correct spectrums, but when you add them together you don't outperform HPS's. That's his point, light doesn't add like that. It might to your eyes, but it clearly doesn't work that way for plants.

If you put 150,000 lumens of CFL's in a room it won't grow plants like a 1000w HID. Should if light is additive right?

Do you not understand how light works? God Damn some people are slow.

Your comparing CFL to HID lighting. Thats 2 completely different things, it would make more sense if you were to say.

"add 20 x 50w HPS light in a room to compare to a 1000w HPS." Comparing CFL to HID is just stupid in this debate.

Source: https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/83128-lumens-lux-adding-all-up.html

1. What is light?

Light is electromagnetic radiation, and may be interpreted as either a wave or a particle: thus the phrase wave/particle duality. It exhibits phenomena that may be explained by its wavelike characteristics - interference, for example - while also demonstrating some that are best explained by its particle-like properties - such as the photoelectric effect.

Treating light like a particle, a light source emits many light particles called photons. These are distinguishable by ONE unique property - their energy. When treating light like a wave, this is referred to as the wavelength, and is visible to us as a difference in color.

The main point is this: photons of the same energy (wavelength, color) from different sources, for example MH, HPS, CFL, T5, etc. are THE SAME.

2. What is light intensity?

Light intensity is simply the flux of photons per unit area per unit time. More photons means increased intensity. That's it.

3. What do lumens, lux, and foot-candles mean?

*Lumen:

This is the unit that defines "luminous flux", which is "radiant flux" (energy emission) adjusted for the sensitivity of the human eye. In the context of a light bulb, it is a measure of the total number of photons being emitted by the bulb (summed over all directions), adjusted for the sensitivity of the human eye to different photon energies.

What this means is that different colors are weighted differently according to a "luminosity function" that describes the sensitivity of our eyes. You can see this function and a more detailed description here.

*Lux, foot-candles:

The lux is simply defined as the number of lumens per second incident upon one square meter. In other words, it is the number of photons striking a finite area per unit time, weighted by the luminosity function described above.

The foot-candle is a derivative unit that is equal to 10.76 lux. It was defined based on the square foot, so the conversion is simply based on an area conversion.

4. What does this mean when using multiple light sources?

So we've established that lux are the number of photons striking a unit area per unit time, weighted by a luminosity function.

We've also established that photons from the same light source are indistinguishable, as long as they have the same energy/wavelength/color.

What this means is that if you put two lights the same distance from a point, and each light provides N photons per unit area at the point, with two lights you will have 2N photons per unit area at the point. Because intensity is a measure of the number of photons per unit area, the light is twice as intense, whatever unit you choose to use. Twice the lumens, twice the lux, twice the footcandles.

An obvious practical caveat to this point comes when using multiple low-intensity light sources. Notice how I stated that the lights were at the same distance? A practical problem with CFLs, for example, is that while you can get 27000 lumens from 10 x 42W CFLs, it's difficult to get them close enough to make them useful. If you have them in a line, for example, as I've shown below, each successive light is further from the meter, and the effective increase will be reduced. They still add, but according to the 1/d^2 rule, so having a bulb 2cm farther away will yield diminishing returns. On the other hand, this can be an effective way of distributing light, whereas with HID you need to distribute the plants around your single point light source.

5. Seriously? Prove it.

Here is a simple experiment that demonstrates this point. Below are some 42W bulbs that are a part of a flowering cabinet. I have suspended it from some pots for the sake of this experiment. You can see there is also a 150W HPS in there; I'll do some HID vs. CFL comparisons at some point as well.

The point is simple. Lights that are equidistant from a point contribute additively.

Ambient light = 0



1 x 42W = 6500 ftc ~ 65000 lux



2 x 42W = 13100 ftc ~ 131000 lux



Any questions?

More examples and experiments to come.

Its as clear as day. Yes. Adding lights does add intensity. How can you not comprehend this simple concept?

1N + 1N = 2N....Can it be any simpler then that? Honestly?

 

[BCtrippin]

here is a CFL nug.

edit: With this being said, i dont care how huge of plants you can grow with HPS, CFLs CAN and WILL grow monster plants too. All you have to do is search the forums a little bit.

Beautiful. Perfect example. It has nothing to do with how intense the light is, its how you make USE of that light.

 

[laserbrn]

Your comparing CFL to HID lighting. Thats 2 completely different things, it would make more sense if you were to say.

Source: https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/83128-lumens-lux-adding-all-up.html

So you are saying that somehow CFL's produce a different light than HID? You REALLY are too thick in the head. Light is light, CFL's produce more useable lights for the plants and I'm sorry, you might be able to grow that decent little nug with CFL's, but it won't compare to HPS.

Right, light meter says it adds up, buds don't.

You won't get the same size and density out of the same lumens from HPS as you will from CFL. If you haven't figured that out by now you are missing something drastic. Otherwise we'd all be growing with CFL's.

What you're missing is that I'm basing my information on grows that I've seen and yes we all agree there are instances where 2 600's would be better, say a 3x6 room, but in a 4x4 room it ain't gonna happen. I'd rather have the 1000w all day any day.

To each their own, if you want to go on numbers instead of results, go for it. I'm a results based guy and when I see a "monster" grown with CFL's and done with less energy over the growing period than an HPS, I'll switch. No reason to run HPS if CFL's can do it better.

This really is a pointless debate anyway, the two will be very similar and 2 600's aren't from one single source like the CFL's so using a light meter on CFL's isn't the same thing. Two reflectors, two hoods, one light meter ain't gonna show you 192,000 lumens over a large portion of the grow space like the 1000w will.

A lot of your growing area will get <96,000 lumens and WAY less of your area will be that low with a properly cooled and placed 1000.

But you keep on keepin' on and acting like putting 2 lights is the same thing as one that is twice as intense.

 

[9inch bigbud]

have you seen the cfl plant in seemore buds book?

yes and they dont come close to a bud under a 1000w hps

 

[BCtrippin]

So you are saying that somehow CFL's produce a different light than HID? You REALLY are too thick in the head. Light is light, CFL's produce more useable lights for the plants and I'm sorry, you might be able to grow that decent little nug with CFL's, but it won't compare to HPS.


But you keep on keepin' on and acting like putting 2 lights is the same thing as one that is twice as intense.

No, and No. Why do you keep making retarded assumptions? Honestly?

Light is Light but CFLs or Not HID for starters, and the spectrum is completely different. Its like comparing apples to oranges as was said before.

But you keep on keepin' on and acting like putting 2 lights is the same thing as one that is twice as intense.

No Im not acting like its a light twice as intense, I have never said that have I? I have said that light is additive, so if you have 2 points of light that are slightly less intense, the common points between the lights Will be More intense. Period.

1n + 1n = 2N. What part of that do you not understand?


You or 9inch's argument is that a 1000w is more intense, therefore it grows more bud. But having 2 x 600w lights would have common points that could be as intense as a 1000w light.

I dont know why Im explaining this to you, its a very well known FACT.

Put 2 lights equal distance to a light meter and it will be the equivelant of 1 larger light. Its an undisputed fact.

Go get a light meter and you can test it for yourself....Maybe you will learn something too.

 

[9inch bigbud]

Ok....



Where do you come up with this shit? Every post you contradict your last post... I could spend Hours going and quoting you contradicting your self one post after another. Its kind of funny.

You post that the lights have to be the correct spectrum.....Then you come up with the stupidest argument ever "Lets look at CFL grows.."


Well, in case you dont know yet, light intensity Does add. So Yes. 2 smaller lights is like having a larger light, and in some places the light WILL BE MORE INTENSE!

This is well known. I dont know why you are trying to dispute it.

you are just a fool show 1post where i contradict my self?LOL if i contradict my self then every fucker who says adding smaller lights does not grow more bud than a single large bulb be it LED or CFL or hps is contadicting them self!
your kiss-ass mate was the one who said about about spectrum of light under cfls not me

 

[BCtrippin]

Seeing that we are getting nowhere. Why exactly do you keep coming back and posting? Are you still trying to convince people that 1 x 1000w will grow more then 2 x 600w? Or are you just coming back to argue now?

Your not even making relevant posts anymore, your just lashing out after being proved wrong.

Average 80% of RIU members agree that 2 x 600w is better than 1 x 1000w.

10% agree with you. Well You, Laserbrn, and 2 other people who probably meant to push "I dont care"

Your wrong. Your wrong in every way, in every argument you have been wrong. Its getting ridiculous and it seems that you get off on arguing or something because you keep coming back.

I offered to politely agree to disagree days ago but you just keep coming back thinking your right.

Do you honestly believe your right and everyone else is wrong? Do you often feel like your smart and everyone else just doesnt get it?


I feel bad for you. I really do. Its actually kind of sad. You cant comprehend basic concepts and you try to dispute proven facts just so you can get in an argument. Well Im done. I know whats right. You can keep arguing with yourself or grabbing for attention or whatever your trying to do.

I think the Poll speaks for itself.

you are just a fool show 1post where i contradict my self?LOL if i contradict my self then every fucker who says adding smaller lights does not grow more bud than a single large bulb be it LED or CFL or hps is contadicting them self!
your kiss-ass mate was the one who said about about spectrum of light under cfls not me

 

[BCtrippin]

I thought I would post this for everyone who knows what they are talking about. Apparently this guy thinks he is smarter then all of you who have voted that 2 x 600 is better then 1 x 1000 even when we all know it is.

In the face of Facts and Reality he thinks we are all wrong and only He is right...

Oblivious?


I never realized polls are strictly opinion based, so does that mean everyone who voted has no idea what they are talking about? Thats a pretty Bold claim to be making, as I know as a fact that these people know what they are talking about, and you are upset because you Dont.

When you start to think Everyone else is wrong and just doesnt get and only You do.....Then you have to start asking yourself, whats the real problem here? Because its not everyone else.

fine 80% of ppl think what they like does not mean they are right! here is a fact for you 20% of the room you walk in is dirtier than the 80% that you dont walked on! i have nothing to prove other than my findings what do you have? DIY and find out for your self.

end of form me you have board me yet again with your bull shit he said- she said bollocks lets post a poll that will tell the truth load of bollocks a poll is opinion based not fact! may be the 20% of ppl that have used both set ups have voted? as said above fact! = 20% of the floor that is walked on the most has 80% more dirt on it than the rest of the room thats not walked on.

 

[9inch bigbud]

I thought I would post this for everyone who knows what they are talking about. Apparently this guy thinks he is smarter then all of you who have voted that 2 x 600 is better then 1 x 1000 even when we all know it is.

In the face of Facts and Reality he thinks we are all wrong and only He is right...

Oblivious?


I never realized polls are strictly opinion based, so does that mean everyone who voted has no idea what they are talking about? Thats a pretty Bold claim to be making, as I know as a fact that these people know what they are talking about, and you are upset because you Dont.

When you start to think Everyone else is wrong and just doesnt get and only You do.....Then you have to start asking yourself, whats the real problem here? Because its not everyone else.

why do you feel the need or need the approval of others? you come across as an attention seeker "HAY EVERY ONE IM STICKING UP FOR YOU PLEASE STICK UP FOR ME TOO" DIY m8 find out your self"

 

[BCtrippin]

why do you feel the need or need the approval of others? you come across as an attention seeker "HAY EVERY ONE IM STICKING UP FOR YOU PLEASE STICK UP FOR ME TOO" DIY m8 find out your self"

Why do you keep telling me to grow with 600s myself. I have, I have grown with 250w, 600s, 1000s. All of them.

When your coming off like a total dick and claiming that everyone is wrong BUT you WTF do you expect? Your an arrogant prick that thinks your smarter then everyone else and you have no proof to back up any of your claims.

Then when the Mass Majority proves you wrong you continue to lash out hoping to get even a bit of credibility.

Why dont you just get over it?


Im curious, Do you still think your right?

 

[FLoJo]

nice copy and paste. yes you are correct 100k i agree its like comparing apples with oranges it does not chage the fact that a plant will grow bigger when it has more light all over it than just light from above = more energy to grow bigger buds penetration

ok.. well its not a "cut and paste" as you say... i understand this concept called mathematics which allows me to process information that apparently seems to bounce right off you. how are you going to compare the sun, which gives a plant 180* of light, to your 1000w light, and then say that your 1000w plant gets light all over? YOUR 1000w LIGHT DOES NOT GIVE LIGHT ALL OVER THE PLANT!!! it is simple.. try to follow me here...your 1000w light is more powerful, and more concentrated, when you put a more powerful, more concentrated light on a plant, the plant will grow bigger faster. you are not giving it light all over unless the plant is outside, you have it singled out with a light mover, or are doing vertical lighting. PERIOD

yes same spectrum but the peek is not going to be the same we know a 1000w is brighter than a 600w so it makes sense if the spike in the red is higher. all you are doing with 600s is putting down 2 lower red spikes of light over a larger area because we cant see the red spectrum of light how do we know how much red light each bulb radiates? 190000 lumans does not mean more red light is being produced as the bulb gets bigger may be there is an increase in how efficient the bulb is at turning power watts in to red spectrum light as you know plants dont use lumans to grow they grow using PAR.

are you serious? how does it make sense that the 1000w would have a greater peak? do you have any idea how a spectrum is created in a bulb? a 1000w hps, and a 600w hps have the SAME SPECTRUM. a 1000w is simply brighter, and more intense than a 600. and again, i know that plants dont grow with watts or lumens, but it is the measurement of light that we use. a 600w and a 1000w will still produce the same ratio of photo active radiation comparitive to their respective wattage.

.

no it will not always win.

yes it will, under exact conditions it will always win, except when you have larger plants. you cant compare your cupboard scrog with another room, because obviously your canopy temps are going to be much higher which will hinder bud growth.

lets look at CFL grows for example adding more smaller lights does not grow more than 1 big light the same should stand true to HPS after all light is light

wow there are so many things wrong with this statement.. first of all, again, apples to oranges... cfls are not HID's, and light is not light. if it was we would be able to grow monsters under incandescents by your logic correct? if you take one large cfl over the top of a plant, vs 5 small cfls of equal wattage, the 5 cfls will win every time no matter what, because cfls have no light penetration. and yes combining lights does increase light intensity.. just think about the mooon, is it brighter at night when it is a half moon or a full moon? is it brigther in a room when you turn on one light or two? BC has a perfect example spelled out there for you.. believe it or not its true!

lets look at it the other way round the 1000s use 200w more i.e 2x1000w v's 3x600 over you 6x3 table the 3x600s will still have more lumans by 5000 but i bet the 2x1000w will out yeild the 3x600s penetration wins you have the canopy coverd the limiting factor then is below the canopy thats ware the 1000s will win and produce bigger cola's and more bud under the canopy than the 600s. do the same with 2x600s put them in a 4x4 room and put a 1000w in the same size room i bet the 1000w will still yeild more 1000w lamps grow more in the same area as 2x600 unless the room is not square. there is not a lot between the two

ok, first of all here is why you continue to be wrong.. you are basing all of your statements based on assumptions. you say i bet the 2 1000s will yield more, however if you do some research you will find that this is not true.

there is a guy on icmag who used to grow with 2 1000s over his 4x8 tables, and he yields more now with 3 600s because of the even light distribution and gets plenty of penetration due to the fact that you can hang a 600 much closer to the canopy.

maybe you should go read some of the more intelligent debates out there on this topic. it has been tried and tested by more than just me, with much more scientific methods, and you have been proven wrong, just deal with it. quit basing your argument on these ludicrous arguments and flawed logic.

also 1200w is burning more watts than just 1200w a balast and bulb run at 10% more i.e a 1000w is running 1100w and 2x600 are running at 1320watts they are only rated at i.e 1000w and 600w but to run them takes more electricity than what the manufacturers put on the box.

yuup we agree here, it is associated with heat loss, but can be minimized with digital ballasts.

for now i am done with this argument, anyone can come in and read what you wrote and see that i have picked apart every bit of your argument, and the only way you will agree with anyone is to do it yourself. that or go do some more research and then come back.

create the same ambient temps, same canopy temps, same RH, same plant numbers etc. etc. and change nothing but the way the plants are laid out, and the lighting, and you will be proven wrong.

peeeace

FLo

 

[9inch bigbud]

its not copy and paste word for word?> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=43901

im to fucked to read the rest of your post as i have said over all the plant that thathas better alumanation will grow a bigger cola's fact! untill you grow it dont coment on it. im sick of ppl that have theories that smaller bulbs grow more!. most of these ppl will say the same about CFL's but when it comes to HPS the truth goes out the window. LOL light is light no matter CFL's or HPS cut the power down all you are doing is cutting the light and puutting it over a wider area a wider area does not grow more bud!penetration grows more bud

 

[VaporBros]

UGH

the argument isnt about CFL's vs HIDs!!!!

 

[9inch bigbud]

UGH

the argument isnt about CFL's vs HIDs!!!!

no it aint, but the same rule applies with CFL' and HPS

 

[FLoJo]

its not copy and paste word for word?> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=43901

im to fucked to read the rest of your post as i have said over all the plant that thathas better alumanation will grow a bigger cola's fact! untill you grow it dont coment on it. im sick of ppl that have theories that smaller bulbs grow more!. most of these ppl will say the same about CFL's but when it comes to HPS the truth goes out the window. LOL light is light no matter CFL's or HPS cut the power down all you are doing is cutting the light and puutting it over a wider area a wider area does not grow more bud!penetration grows more bud

no, actually its not a copy and paste. the only thing that is the same is the distance from the sun to earth, and the equation for finding the area of a sphere. i cant help the fact that you have to use the same equation to find a similar answer lol thats mathematics .

and i can understand why you wouldnt wanna read the rest because you cant argue logically and stick to your same boring argument which is flawed and has been proven wrong.. dont worry i feel for you brah. but try to form complete thoughts and sentences because you are not doing yourself any favors.

"as i have said over all the plant that thathas better alumanation will grow a bigger cola's fact!"

is that english? are you trying to say that a plant illuminated by a 1000w bulb will grow larger and larger colas? as i have said i aready agree with that because obviously a 1000w has a higher concentration of light, which will grow a plant larger. it has nothing to do with ?alumanation? or 3d lighting or the sun or any of the other crazy shit you are trying to say. but please explain to me how a 1000w with 3 feet of penetration matters when growing plants under 3 feet tall (2 feet of bud) with a 600w that is closer, and has 2 feet of penetration.

and as far as until i grow it dont comment on it? how many times do i have to say i HAVE grown it, along with people on other boards and they will tell you the same thing LOL sorry i dont have a photo journal with it spelled out for you.

YOU have not done it, so shouldnt you not be commenting on it by your own logic? you have not grown same number of plants, same ambient temps, same canopy temps, same relative humidity, same pot size, same medium, same amount of trimming, pruning, and training, same nutrient schedule. you have already proven this to the rest of us so until you do you have no weight in this argument.

and CFLs and HPS are not the same are you serious ??? show me a cfl that produces the same spectrum, uses the same wattage, and has 2+ feet of penetration?

and nobody is saying smaller bulbs grow more what are you stoned out of your mind or something? we are collectively saying that 2 600w hps will outgrow a 1000w light, all things being equal. PLAIN AND SIMPLE

and light is NOT light. like i said if that was true why can we not grow bud under flood lights or incandescents? light is light right? no, its not, each light produces a different spectrum, and different amounts of usable light for the plants.. again your argument is FLAWED

and again, if penetration is all that matters explain how a 1000w with 3 feet of penetration matters when growing plants under 3 feet tall (2 feet of bud) with a 600w that is closer, and has 2 feet of penetration.

i understand if you want to blow it off again and not try to debate logically, because as we can all see, you continue to be picked apart, and you are obviously getting frustrated

FLo

 

[BCtrippin]

no it aint, but the same rule applies with CFL' and HPS

Only if you were comparing smaller CFLs to larger CFLs. And yes, Multiple small CFLs will yield MORE then 1 large CFL because they cant penetrate, so more points of light means you have more sources of light closer to more parts of the plant.


Do you really believe you will yield more with a 150 CFL vs 3 x 50w CFLS?

Same argument, 3 smaller CFLs will win every time. Saying to compare a CFL to HPS is just stupid though.

 

[dgk4life]

no, actually its not a copy and paste. the only thing that is the same is the distance from the sun to earth, and the equation for finding the area of a sphere. i cant help the fact that you have to use the same equation to find a similar answer lol thats mathematics .

and i can understand why you wouldnt wanna read the rest because you cant argue logically and stick to your same boring argument which is flawed and has been proven wrong.. dont worry i feel for you brah. but try to form complete thoughts and sentences because you are not doing yourself any favors.

"as i have said over all the plant that thathas better alumanation will grow a bigger cola's fact!"

is that english? are you trying to say that a plant illuminated by a 1000w bulb will grow larger and larger colas? as i have said i aready agree with that because obviously a 1000w has a higher concentration of light, which will grow a plant larger. it has nothing to do with ?alumanation? or 3d lighting or the sun or any of the other crazy shit you are trying to say. but please explain to me how a 1000w with 3 feet of penetration matters when growing plants under 3 feet tall (2 feet of bud) with a 600w that is closer, and has 2 feet of penetration.

and as far as until i grow it dont comment on it? how many times do i have to say i HAVE grown it, along with people on other boards and they will tell you the same thing LOL sorry i dont have a photo journal with it spelled out for you.

YOU have not done it, so shouldnt you not be commenting on it by your own logic? you have not grown same number of plants, same ambient temps, same canopy temps, same relative humidity, same pot size, same medium, same amount of trimming, pruning, and training, same nutrient schedule. you have already proven this to the rest of us so until you do you have no weight in this argument.

and CFLs and HPS are not the same are you serious ??? show me a cfl that produces the same spectrum, uses the same wattage, and has 2+ feet of penetration?

and nobody is saying smaller bulbs grow more what are you stoned out of your mind or something? we are collectively saying that 2 600w hps will outgrow a 1000w light, all things being equal. PLAIN AND SIMPLE

and light is NOT light. like i said if that was true why can we not grow bud under flood lights or incandescents? light is light right? no, its not, each light produces a different spectrum, and different amounts of usable light for the plants.. again your argument is FLAWED

and again, if penetration is all that matters explain how a 1000w with 3 feet of penetration matters when growing plants under 3 feet tall (2 feet of bud) with a 600w that is closer, and has 2 feet of penetration.

i understand if you want to blow it off again and not try to debate logically, because as we can all see, you continue to be picked apart, and you are obviously getting frustrated

FLo

wait so aRE WE STILL arguing that more watts is not better then less watts? 2 600 watts is better then 1000 watts.
and r we now on to hps not being as good as cfl's cause if we are i need to start smokin again to wrap my brain around some of your arguments. more watts more lumens more buds.... hps is superior to cfl.. the grass is green and the sky is blue... p.s flo jo nice vertical grow cant wait to see you flowere bro..

 

[jimjones420]

To me, a more reasonable matchup would be 2x400's vs 1x1000... I think 9inch tends to forget that rooms with to 600's are able to put lights substantially closer
to the plants, thus enabling more light penetration vs a 1000w that has to stay sooo far away so that the tops aren't burned... You would also be able to have a much more uniform crop b/c the light distributions is more even... My experience with seeing 1000w in use is that plants directly under light are burnt some from heat, plants slightly off center of light look AMAZING, and plants on the edges of the room look subpar... Add another vote for the majority... And 9inch, why the aninmousity towards everyone?? LOL, kinda uptight for a weedhead dnt you think?