AMA Finally Gets It!

CrackerJax

New Member
Cracker we are not done at medical this is just the beginning, the majority of weed has and always will be recreational and while there may end up a medical super clean sterile supply for some no doubt there will be lesser qualities also.

You both are going overboard if we could mash you together you'd both make one decent stoner.
I agree that it is not the end and full legalization is the goal. But let's not put the cart in front of the horse. This thread is about MMJ, and I'm just pointing out some real world realities.

MMJ will eventually, if successful, be controlled as a medical substance. I've already posted what that means.

:peace:
 

Eire

Member
I disagree that MMJ is a doomed strategy. Good business sense and an appetite for profits will usher it through the early times of high regulation to later times of less regulation for the reasons I have already stated. You have stated your opinion of how but where is the why? My reasons are the rock solid motivations of profits and business sense. I can see no equivalent motivations to push it in the direction you predict.

So is full legalization what you support? Do you oppose MMJ because you think it will ruin the chances for full legalization? Do you mean totally unregulated, untaxed legalization? Now who's supporting a pipe dream that will absolutely never happen? Are you against even sales tax? How, would you classify it as food to avoid it?

Please, lay it out for me. How would your solution actually work? Technically you can't even have a yard sale without charging sales tax. And that would still only apply to sales. Do you think they will try to tax grows for personal use? That makes no sense as it would cost more to go door to door checking for them, so they can't do that.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Wow, I don't know how you could reach those conclusions about me. i never posted anything like that at all.

I'm not opposed to MMJ. I'm just INFORMING you on how it will eventually play out.

It will happen as I say, or it won't happen at all.
 

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
Wow, I don't know how you could reach those conclusions about me. i never posted anything like that at all.

I'm not opposed to MMJ. I'm just INFORMING you on how it will eventually play out.

It will happen as I say, or it won't happen at all.
It seems to be moving more towards the Dutch system right now from what I can see cracker. They are talking about legalizing recreational marijuana for adults over 21yrs in California.

The whole dispensary model is becoming more like the dutch coffee shop scene. Seems similar with cultivation and transportation of large amounts being illegal but the acceptance of large scale distribution out of store-fronts.

Right now there is very little infrastructure in place for a legal system besides the dispensaries. Where the pot is coming from and how it is produced is still a mystery . . . .:bongsmilie:
 

Eire

Member
Wow yourself Crackerjax, read your own posts. You were telling people not to bother trying for MMJ because it would end in tears. Your scenario was that Big Pharma would take control and ruin the whole system. I could just see people reading your posts and then deciding to give up and go back to illegal street purchases.

You were being a real downer. I was trying to boost morale and engender motivation and involvement to get things done and you came along and basically said don't bother, it's no use anyway, it will end badly. Not only that, but your predictions were crazy wrong. The chance of it working out as you described is so low as to have made you seem a bit nuts. Re-read your posts and if you don't see that then I don't know what to say. My mother used to say "I see, I see, said the blind man when he could not see at all".

NewGrowth, I agree with you. But I've heard that the Dutch are moving towards more restrictions. I hope they stay free.

And I also have wondered how the supply chain works in CA. I have asked and been told several different stories, all plausible. Maybe it's a kind of organically changing system.

Some places say they have a collective grow tended by experienced members. Some say they have a lot of individual members that grow their own and donate their excess. Some have admitted that at times they work with a kind of gray market. There must also be some kind of official supply system because I have seen pre-packaged supplies that must have come from somewhere, and other stuff that is obviously old and brown from storage.

So yes, it is an interesting question. But I understand that no one really wants to lay it all out and clearly explain because the laws are still very vague and possibly contradictory, so until we get them ironed out then no one is yet safe from those who can interpret them and enforce them any way they wish.

That's why we need to get and stay involved, so it's we the people who care about it that are helping to hash it out and get the bills and laws written properly. If not, then opponents will infiltrate the process and get the laws and regs written in such ways as to crash the system and make it impossible to function so that we return to a state of prohibition even though we have legal use laws.
 

ndangerspecimen101

Well-Known Member
ndangerspecimen101, you are a voice of reason. And you are correct. At best the Fed would step back and let the states handle it as they will. But that would be a vast improvement. And there is nothing in your logic that supports surrender, true? So the only thing we can do is keep plugging away at it. We can't let the nay-sayers get us down.

There's no sense in just giving up. I took the easy way and moved to a location that allowed at least medical use. So I will pick up the fight here where it stands and try to help push it even further to give more rights and protection to users. But if I couldn't leave my old state then I still wouldn't have given up. It is always worth it to keep trying to change things.

Many other people thought the same back when it was still illegal here. They kept up the fight for what they knew was right. Many of them passed away before they ever got to see even a part of their dreams come true. But I'm sure that even at the end they never regretted it or thought they had wasted their lives. It's always worth it to keep trying. Humanity itself would not be where we are if it were otherwise- EIRE


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Their will always be the nay-sayers in every topic, what matters is what proves best to resolve problems, to alleviate pain and to rectify or try to bandage the problem! California is at a very revolutionary time and cannabis is on new media coverage on a daily basis, especially regarding dispenseries. It all a matter on how to regulate the issue! Northern Cali. is now a legalized zone for marijuana use and los angeles is its next big territory. It could get cali. out of its financial ruckus, marijuana may save the day ;)
 

smokinguns

Well-Known Member
Talked to a few Dr. friends of mine and they knew this was coming. They also told me this will free the way for the AMA to begin clinical trials for the use of Marijuana for cancer paients, which is exactly why this information is being released.
 

growone

Well-Known Member
Talked to a few Dr. friends of mine and they knew this was coming. They also told me this will free the way for the AMA to begin clinical trials for the use of Marijuana for cancer paients, which is exactly why this information is being released.
this is way cool, but god it took a long time
 

CrackerJax

New Member
It seems to be moving more towards the Dutch system right now from what I can see cracker. They are talking about legalizing recreational marijuana for adults over 21yrs in California.

The whole dispensary model is becoming more like the dutch coffee shop scene. Seems similar with cultivation and transportation of large amounts being illegal but the acceptance of large scale distribution out of store-fronts.

Right now there is very little infrastructure in place for a legal system besides the dispensaries. Where the pot is coming from and how it is produced is still a mystery . . . .:bongsmilie:
Hey, I OF COURSE hope it goes all the way to full legality, but I lived through the 70's when it was REALLY about to happen. that was thirty years ago. :lol: Man, I mean everyone said .. THIS IS IT!!! ... nope.

I agree with you, and your analysis on what is happening in the present. I just am posting about what will happen in the future if weed truly goes national and is brought under FDA control (which of course it will).



Eire..... I was not telling ppl to not get MMJ cards in Cali. You seem to read okay, but your filter is a bit skewed.

I know what I said. There were ppl saying "just go to a doctor, and if he says no, then go to another, and another, until you get one.

My point was AND STILL IS, to all of you folks out there without a real medical condition, UR going to ruin it for the truly needy. I stand by that post and attitude. Anyone selfishly glomming onto medical weed, who isn't truly sick, is hurting the cause.

Everyone is watching, this is no time to be selfish.
 

Eire

Member
ndangerspecimen101's: Right on, my friend. I could wish it were already better in SD, but they keep the pressure on pretty heavily. Still I count my blessings that it is as good as it is. I just hope that supporters don't get the idea that it's a done deal and they don't need to keep working at it.

I remember talking to people from the old days when it was looking good for legalization and that's what happened then. So the opponents were able to run right over the movement and fear-monger everyone into total prohibition.

I also remember reading the news when Mass (or Mich?) for the first time in many years went ahead and busted the people who participated in the smoke-out at the capital. It was apparently one of the final death-tolls for the legalization movement.

That's why I've promised myself to avoid that attitude and to actually put some time and effort into helping. I feel that I am in a good situation now that I am legal so that I can attend meetings and speak out without fear of being traced down and busted. I am legal, so why should I fear?

And if I do get harassed or persecuted then I finally have the legal right to fight back because why should I be put down for being a good, law-abiding citizen with a righteous cause? That's a precious feeling and I want to keep it, spread it around, and help improve our situation even more.
 

Eire

Member
CrackerJax, I'm sorry if you thought I was going off on you but it really did seem like you were saying to give up because it will just get ruined anyway. If you were truly there 30 years ago then you know that it is just when people are saying 'this is it' is when they start sitting back and stop fighting. It's also when they're about to lose that the opponents get up and become really outspoken and wily in their methods.

So it is right now that we need to keep fighting and be alert, and not go spreading doomsday scenarios where it will all end in ruin because first that's not true and second, that's exactly how to sabotage the movement so it does again fail like it did then.

And I still disagree with you that the FDA and big pharma will trash it. Look, it's ALREADY under FDA control. So are alcohol and cigarettes and Twinkies. Who do you think designates it as a controlled substance and decides how 'dangerous' it is?

And as for the big takeover you describe where big pharma monopolizes the growth and distribution, keeping it out of our hands and regulating quality downward and prices upward, I can see where someone might fear such a thing very much but it's extremely unlikely to happen that way.

Whether it's big pharma, tobacco, or the alcohol industry that jumps in to take advantage, they all have one common motivation: profits. And I know that can often lead to bad things, but in this case quantity of consumers and quality of product will bring them the most profits if legalization is expanded and they encourage home grows and small micro grow operations.

So I stick by my assertion that you were wrong and even if it was unintentional you were fear-mongering.

Finally, here you say that you are not telling people to not get MMJ recommendations. But then you say that people have to doctor hop to find one who gives recommendations, and you say that people without "real" medical conditions are ruining it for everyone else.

To that I say that first you are indeed telling them not to get recommendations. So you are telling them to remain illegal and keep participating in illegal transactions that can only hurt the cause and when they have the opportunity to become legal.

Second, there is no need to doctor hop because there are many fine clinics that specialize in MMJ recommendations and they do make efforts to filter out those who obviously see it as a scam.

And finally, who better than a doctor is able to define what is a real medical condition? Not you, I'm sure. I've had terrible insomnia for most of my adult life. I can go for 3, 4, even 5 days without sleep and I can tell you that it is hellish. My moods swing, my abilities to think and act properly are stunted, and I feel like crap in a hat. But people always told me that it wasn't a "real" medical issue, but just mind over matter.

And the sleeping aids that are available are not great. Some don't really work, some work too well and leave you dragging ass the next day, and some even make you feel sick and mess with your moods and thoughts in even worse ways. But MMJ gives me the blessings of good sleep along with other great benefits and no bad side effects. So I'm not gonna let anyone else start judging whether or not it's a real condition. That's between me and my doctor as it should be.

So I say yes, go get that doctor's recommendation and be happy. Further, be proud that you are finally legal and can stand up to those who judge and say yes, I use MMJ and I'm legal. So I do not fear your judgment or the authorities or anyone else because I am legal and that makes ALL the difference!
 

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
Well said Eire.

Jax I think you should visit California, or even Colorado. Things really have changed, medical marijuana is everywhere.

As far as the comments about who "needs" medical marijuana . . . well so far the doctors seem to think quite a few people could benefit from it. The health department is getting 400 new applications a week. More patients never hurt the cause :wink: Conservatives are ranting and raving about all the dispensaries blah blah blah. But guess what!? We voted it into LAW so there is nothign the can do about it. As a result so far the cannabis industry is exploding here in Colorado.
 

Eire

Member
Thanks NewGrowth!

Yes Jax, maybe you know someone that you can visit. Talk to some of the people at dispensaries.

It's great to hear you're getting relief in your area too, NG. Are you having any of the trouble we're having?

I hear in LA the commissioners are bunched up about there being more dispensaries than Starbucks. I wonder that in this economy they are not holding a parade for anyone opening new businesses.

Down south they busted pipe shops because they sometimes used the term 'bong' instead of 'pipe' and the difference is that one is drug paraphernalia and the other is for tobacco. But aren't both legal if you have a recommendation?

And they busted some dispensaries because dispensaries are supposed to be non-profit and the authorities vaguely claimed they could tell by the way that these dispensaries advertised and the way they did business that they were working for profit. But don't non-profits advertise so they can get more money so they can use it to help more people? And they just want donations without helping you in return like dispensaries do. And if your a new dispensary, don't you need to grow at least to the point of being able to pay your employees? I mean, are the employees supposed to work for free?

I can see that we still have far to go. We need laws to specifically protect patients, collectives, and dispensary systems from unreasonable persecution by authorities. We need more awareness so not only cops and DAs but regular people can get past any preconceptions they might have towards us. We need protection from employer drug testing results that show only marijuana use. And I'm sure I'm overlooking some other very important issues.

The point is that we may rejoice in our own happy circumstances, but there is definitely more to do. I'm investigating meetings that I might attend as we speak.
 

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
Still a young industry out here. They put a moratorium on any further dispensaries opening in my area. The local sheriff is vocal about his opposition to MMJ and Dispensaries. There is also an idiot at city council that owns two "massage" parlors but thinks MMJ is evil. :roll:

The good part is that it seems to be a local fight and that is fine by me. These local guys are not too swift, and the judges have ruled in favor of patients in pretty much every trial in the state.

The environment is very high energy because the vibe seems to be getting better despite opposition attempts at blocking the movement from growing. Advocacy groups are popping up all over the state too. GREEN REVOLUTION!:mrgreen:
 

Bucket head

Well-Known Member
Still a young industry out here. They put a moratorium on any further dispensaries opening in my area. The local sheriff is vocal about his opposition to MMJ and Dispensaries. There is also an idiot at city council that owns two "massage" parlors but thinks MMJ is evil. :roll:

The good part is that it seems to be a local fight and that is fine by me. These local guys are not too swift, and the judges have ruled in favor of patients in pretty much every trial in the state.

The environment is very high energy because the vibe seems to be getting better despite opposition attempts at blocking the movement from growing. Advocacy groups are popping up all over the state too. GREEN REVOLUTION!:mrgreen:


fuck the haters... they can suck a dick up until they hick-up...lol :bigjoint:
 

Eire

Member
Good going NG. I hope your dispensary does gangbusters. Will you have a lounge area?

Glad to hear the energy is high too. I'm looking forward to getting into it here. I should have moved here long ago.

We also have some local resistance as I've described. In SD there's a DA Bonnie Dumanis that's always bugging to bash on us.

But we will yet pry her loose of our throats. A few months back a guy sued back instead of taking a plea and he won. He was found not guilty in his prosecution and then won his counter suit. So SD had to pay his legal bills and their own which was I think $139K. Then they had to pay him damages of $100K. Then he sued again and they had to go buy him $800 worth of MMJ to replace what they had confiscated. I almost cheered when I read the newspaper article.

Then just a couple months ago she busted the dispensaries. But things went a little differently. It was still a terror for everyone, but in the past she usually claimed that it was a Fed operation and the SD cops were just riding along and pressing what charges they could in addition to the Feds. But after these raids a Fed spokesperson preempted her and said it was an SD op and they were the ones riding along to protect the rights of the people who were obeying the MMJ laws. So she's hanging in the wind from that. I can only hope she goes from there to under the bus and out of office!
 

ndangerspecimen101

Well-Known Member
My point was AND STILL IS, to all of you folks out there without a real medical condition, UR going to ruin it for the truly needy. I stand by that post and attitude. Anyone selfishly glomming onto medical weed, who isn't truly sick, is hurting the cause.

Everyone is watching, this is no time to be selfish-CRACKERJAX


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This is completely true, in every sense that is the main government concern as in to "audit the use of marijuana" between adolescents and adults, and the sick from the healthy. Another key issue is the way the process of buying the marijuana comes out, as money transactions could cause a downward spiral so to say to de-regulate the main cause of legalizing marijuana and make it a solely a profit maker for those in care of the dispenseries!
 
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