NEW NFT (nutrient film technique) SOG SETUP

[sherriberry]

good info bro

here is what im going to do for now since you just scared the shit out of me from going to smaller sized microns for the time being...

i still have a bunch of ez clone sprayers left...

or if fatman says its okay, i might try his smaller micron sprayers... but heres the deal..

i drew it out on a piece of paper that if i have

2 cap timers

3 normally open solenoids

3 nomrally closed solenoids

i can construct pumbing that will feed

8 total fence posts, assuming the pump can only feed 2 posts at a time.

but, 4 total groups we will say.

O C O C -timer for all 4 of these 1.5 min
l l l l
---- ---
l l
O----C -timer for the 2 of these 3 min
l
l
Pump

okay, the little diagram above shows a T setup for the pipe after it comes out of the pump.

One one side of the T is a normally open.

On the other side is a normally closed

1 cap timer will be plugged into these,,, when its on, one is open, one is closed.

when its off, the other is open and the other is closed

this timer will be on for 3 min, off for 3 min

then, a second teir of T's will occur after each of these valves.

and again, there will be another normally open valve on one side, and normally closed valve on the other side of the second teir T

these solenoids will be plugged into a second cap timer, and will be on a 1.5 min on, 1.5 min off.

both sides of secondary T valves are on 1 timer! Thats 4 valves, 2 normally open, 2 normally closed, one of each on each side of the primary T

so, look at what happens.

The first T by the pump alternates one way, lets say to the right side, so thats where the flow goes for 3 min.

During that 3 min, the WHOLE left side goes dry.

now, during that 3 min, 1.5 min ALL THE SECONDARY VALVES ROTATE.

but the dry left side doenst matter, its dry, so the secondaries just open and close in the wind on the left side, per say.

Meanwhile on the right side of the primary T, one side is on for 1.5 min, and then the other side on for the other 1.5 min.

then it switches to the other side of the primary T, and you get 1.5 on one side, and 1.5 on the other side of the secondary T on the right side of the pump.

So, thats 4.5 min of off time for each "group" whether its 2 or 3 posts per group... who knows, that depends on pump size.

And the pump is always on.

and they all drain back to the same res.

Unless im missing the boat somewhere and there is a circut or relay that makes this whole thing a lot simpler and less expensive than buying 2 cap timers.

Also note...

i found the valves that spit either left or right.

They are called a ASCO Electric Solenoid Valve 3/8" NPT 3-Way valve

but... notice the 3/8" part...

so unless i get the okay from fatman and used a high pressure pump...

im stuck using normally ON and normally OFF standard 2 way valves.

 

[sherriberry]

this thing is bs and keeps messing up my diagram

 

[sherriberry]

fatman... that pump you linked earlier... the one that is 80 bucks on ebay instead of 300... how many of those small micron sprayers can it power comfortably?

im thinking about using it for this setup im talking about

AND

also having a small small pump run constant NFT down every post...

what are your thoughts?

 

[streetlegal]

good info bro

here is what im going to do for now since you just scared the shit out of me from going to smaller sized microns for the time being...

i still have a bunch of ez clone sprayers left...

or if fatman says its okay, i might try his smaller micron sprayers... but heres the deal..

i drew it out on a piece of paper that if i have

2 cap timers

3 normally open solenoids

3 nomrally closed solenoids

i can construct pumbing that will feed

8 total fence posts, assuming the pump can only feed 2 posts at a time.

but, 4 total groups we will say.

O C O C -timer for all 4 of these 1.5 min
l l l l
---- ---
l l
O----C -timer for the 2 of these 3 min
l
l
Pump

okay, the little diagram above shows a T setup for the pipe after it comes out of the pump.

One one side of the T is a normally open.

On the other side is a normally closed

1 cap timer will be plugged into these,,, when its on, one is open, one is closed.

when its off, the other is open and the other is closed

this timer will be on for 3 min, off for 3 min

then, a second teir of T's will occur after each of these valves.

and again, there will be another normally open valve on one side, and normally closed valve on the other side of the second teir T

these solenoids will be plugged into a second cap timer, and will be on a 1.5 min on, 1.5 min off.

both sides of secondary T valves are on 1 timer! Thats 4 valves, 2 normally open, 2 normally closed, one of each on each side of the primary T

so, look at what happens.

The first T by the pump alternates one way, lets say to the right side, so thats where the flow goes for 3 min.

During that 3 min, the WHOLE left side goes dry.

now, during that 3 min, 1.5 min ALL THE SECONDARY VALVES ROTATE.

but the dry left side doenst matter, its dry, so the secondaries just open and close in the wind on the left side, per say.

Meanwhile on the right side of the primary T, one side is on for 1.5 min, and then the other side on for the other 1.5 min.

then it switches to the other side of the primary T, and you get 1.5 on one side, and 1.5 on the other side of the secondary T on the right side of the pump.

So, thats 4.5 min of off time for each "group" whether its 2 or 3 posts per group... who knows, that depends on pump size.

And the pump is always on.

and they all drain back to the same res.

Unless im missing the boat somewhere and there is a circut or relay that makes this whole thing a lot simpler and less expensive than buying 2 cap timers.

Haha thats fucking awesome bro (more then wot i could be bothered doing)..
You would think there would be a simple way/application of switching between individual pipes, Ag growers need to manage 100's of pipes

"Electronic relays are particularly suited for switching medium and small loads and for applications with frequent switching cycles"
There prob is a relay switch u can build to open and close individual solenoids, but would u still need multiple timers? im hardly elec. minded so im no good there..

Why dont you just run all the lines from 1 bigger pump, all on the same timer? Does that work out just as cost effective in the end?..

 

[repvip]

Why dont you just run all the lines from 1 bigger pump, all on the same timer? Does that work out just as cost effective in the end?..

Keeps the reservoir cooler too!

Well, unless you really do another pump with continuous NFT

 

[fatman7574]

fatman... that pump you linked earlier... the one that is 80 bucks on ebay instead of 300... how many of those small micron sprayers can it power comfortably?

im thinking about using it for this setup im talking about

AND

also having a small small pump run constant NFT down every post...

what are your thoughts?

It uses 90 watts and can supply water to up to about 140 nozzles depending on the droplet sizes you desire. I go for a very fine mist with the majority under 50 to 75 micron so I keep it down to about 70 misters at 0.5 gallon/hr each. That is 1892 ml each per hour. Say you want a flow of 1 liter per hour per every 10 inches width that means with your set up that is a 10 liter per hour flow. Double that for the larger root masses. So 20 liters per hour. 20 liter is equal to 200000 ml. (20000 / 1892) = That means you would only need 10.57 or 100 misters running 24 hours if running constantly. I would instaed use morenozzles and run intermittantly. Say 44 nozzles with the water spraying 20 seconds on and one minute off. A solenoid would be used so that the pump ran constantly. I would l also add a venturi valve on a seperate recirculationg pump. All it would do is suck huge amounts of air into the pump, where by the pump would chop the bubbles into little small bubbles. As small bublles slowly rise to the waters surface and because they have a larger surface area ratio than large bubbles they add a great amount of DO to the reservoir water. Even Cooper recommended this over 20 years or more ago. It is much more efficient than using airstones. Or there are needle wheel pumps made to do the same thing.

 

[streetlegal]

You make the mat sound ... supernatural or something!

Isn't it just a capillary mat to spread out the water?

I'm using cheesecloth at the bottom of my fence posts, just a single layer to keep moist in case of pump failure.

Also, I'm running one unit now continuously with a 185gph pump... so far so good, but it's really too early to tell (if there is a difference in continuous flow versus cycling 1/5 on/off). It's a 15 gallon rez with 10 gallons of nute solution, and it doesn't heat up with the pump on 24/7... I bet I could even use a smaller pump.



I think a sprayer between every plant is fine. I think a sprayer every other plant is fine too. Just depends on how many sprayers you want to install and how many plant sites you will have... Fatman is the pro obviously with this... I don't know anything about medium/high pressure aero!

I actually just converted one of my NFT units today into AERO/NFT with the addition of sprayers .. with OXOOXOOXOOXOOXO X=sprayer, O=plant. This way it's only 20 sprayers per entire unit, 5 per post. Pictures attached. It was easy to get the sprayers up top, spraying down.

When using Stink's system, I had roots so massive they blocked my bottom sprayers completely, which is why I thought "fuck sprayers who needs em". That's when I converted my stink systems over to what I have now. However, my NFT units should be yielding more. I don't want a lecture from anyone... but I'm only getting 8oz per unit. 40 plants on SOG.. I was aiming for at least 10oz with the ultimate goal of a pound per unit every harvest. It's still early in my experimenting.. The sprayers should make a difference.

As for spacing... My units are 6" center to center per post, but between posts they end up being 5" center to center on the diagonal. I like 6".. However, 5" with just top colas would probably be ok... I'm not the best person to ask about spacing.. I just experiment with my own shit to see what works! I cut off the bottom 1/3 branches. A couple pics to show how crowded it gets with this spacing...

What else... I have 4 units and harvest every 2 weeks. I grow Blue Cheese by Big Buddha and AK48 by Nirvana. I've grown a few strains, and it's been a bitch to find one I like that works on my time frame.

ps I really want to try those fatman misters/sprayers, but I already have so many ecoplus pumps! I'm sick of buying more supplies. Can the ecoplus pumps run the medium pressure misters?

Repvip man, being that u got all 3 going its a really good comparison check between Continuous Flow Vs Sprayer Rails Vs NFT now, be really good to see yield diffs, fuckng interesting. Yeh im not doing pressure misters, sticking to aero/nft..

Not to lecture bout ur yields but if i can say, i think ur limiting factors atm could be light and quality genetics, after that u could look into Co2.. ur already a far way along in trial and error in regards to the best way of running ur system (thanks btw man, saved me alot of experimenting) so looking to other areas is where u could find yield..

A really good single cola sog high yielder is White Rhino, and look at Al.b's Sweet Tooth #3 (tho u cant get that atm, there is sweet tooth 1.1, also known as Grapefruit x Blueberry by Chimera, exactly same seed stock as ST1.1)
Fuck man i hope that didnt turn into a lecture baaa. No doubt im saying things u already know..
And dont be scared to trim them fuckers up goood! like a real lollypop, dont want too much energy wasted in those moot bottom branches

 

[repvip]

Repvip man, being that u got all 3 going its a really good comparison check between Continuous Flow Vs Sprayer Rails Vs NFT now, be really good to see yield diffs, fuckng interesting. Yeh im not doing pressure misters, sticking to aero/nft..

Not to lecture bout ur yields but if i can say, i think ur limiting factors atm could be light and quality genetics, after that u could look into Co2.. ur already a far way along in trial and error in regards to the best way of running ur system (thanks btw man, saved me alot of experimenting) so looking to other areas is where u could find yield..

A really good single cola sog high yielder is White Rhino, and look at Al.b's Sweet Tooth #3 (tho u cant get that atm, there is sweet tooth 1.1, also known as Grapefruit x Blueberry by Chimera, exactly same seed stock as ST1.1)
Fuck man i hope that didnt turn into a lecture baaa. No doubt im saying things u already know..
And dont be scared to trim them fuckers up goood! like a real lollypop, dont want too much energy wasted in those moot bottom branches

I'm not sure light is my limiting factor... I have two light movers, one with a 600w hortliux HPS and 400w hortilux MH, the other with the 350w LED quad-band from Prosource. The light movers allow me to position the LED within <1" of the tops, and the MH and HPS are similarly adjustable.. I aim for 6" or less on HPS and 2-4" on MH. I basically built my NFT units for the footprint of the lights, on light movers. The units start on the right side of my flower room, under the LED, and rotate left under the 400w and then further left where they finish under the 600w.

I also run CO2, A/C, dehumidifier... completely sealed.. huge ass carbon scrubber. The lights are vented separately with a 745cfm fan... so I can keep them CLOSE!

The first few harvest have been clones->flower with no veg time... eventually I will catch up on clones and will have plants vegging for 2 weeks before they flower. Lots of little things to improve yields... so even though 8oz sucks ass... it's like a worst case scenario.

BTW, with 2 days continuous low-flow NFT (all I have tried so far on continuous) the roots already are growing better than they were with intermittent NFT.

You are right in that I am comparing the different techniques with my basic setup. We got intermittent NFT, continuous NFT, and Aero/Intermittent NFT all in the same conditions.. will be fun to see the best. And now we got sherriberry possibly doing Aero/continuous NFT!

PS - the LED is so bright, it penetrates through my fence posts! The inside of the fence posts glows pink where the LED is above.. and it might be hurting my roots. It's not a light leak.. it's that fucking bright! I might paint my posts black.

 

[fatman7574]

PAR lighting is not accumalative. There is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to PAR lighting. Either the plants are getting optimal lighting or they are not. Two hours of half optimal PAR is not equal to one hour of optimal PAR lighting. If a plant puts on say 1 gram of mass from an hour of lighting at a PAR rating of say 6 units. It is not going to put on 1 gram of mass from two hours of lighting with a PAR of 3 units. PAR is not accumalative. PAR is the light received at any given time not over a period of time. If t your lights are say 2000 watts. Say 50 watts per square foot, so 40 square feet of likely adequate PAR coverage. Simply putting those lights on tracks does not mean you can increase the area of coverage while supplying optimal PAR to all the area plus the additional area. It just means for a shrter while the plants are getting optimal PAR and the rest of the time they are getting less than optimal PAR.

Track lights are simply a way of using fewer large lights rather than the same wattage of lights in mutiple fixtures which would have a mi uch higher purchase price. If you have an area of say 100 square feet. That means 5000 watts. So a tracking system allows the use of five 1000 watt lights moved around rather than twenty 250 watt lights sitting stationary. That is all they are good for really. They do not allow you to get the same growth by using 2500 watts of lighting on tracks rather than 5000 watts. No free lunch. They are only meant to save the money spent on multiple fixtures veri us a lessor number of larger fixture.

 

[sherriberry]

fatman...

how much attention am i going to have to give to my res, checking nutes, ppms, ph, etc?

... if i go with these fine mist sprayers?

also, you mentioned 50 micron sprayers in your last post... but the ones you linked i think are 80 microns... did i miss something?

how do the sprayers attach to the feed lines? do i buy the barbed ones or the screw style ones?

as far as nutes go...

what do i need to do different...

i currently have cal mag
advanced nutrients bloom and micro
great white


what else would i need to get for veg if i used these fine mist sprayers

and what else would i need to get for bloom if i use these fine mist sprayers

thanks

 

[streetlegal]

I'm not sure light is my limiting factor... I have two light movers, one with a 600w hortliux HPS and 400w hortilux MH, the other with the 350w LED quad-band from Prosource. The light movers allow me to position the LED within <1" of the tops, and the MH and HPS are similarly adjustable.. I aim for 6" or less on HPS and 2-4" on MH. I basically built my NFT units for the footprint of the lights, on light movers. The units start on the right side of my flower room, under the LED, and rotate left under the 400w and then further left where they finish under the 600w.

I also run CO2, A/C, dehumidifier... completely sealed.. huge ass carbon scrubber. The lights are vented separately with a 745cfm fan... so I can keep them CLOSE!

The first few harvest have been clones->flower with no veg time... eventually I will catch up on clones and will have plants vegging for 2 weeks before they flower. Lots of little things to improve yields... so even though 8oz sucks ass... it's like a worst case scenario.

BTW, with 2 days continuous low-flow NFT (all I have tried so far on continuous) the roots already are growing better than they were with intermittent NFT.

You are right in that I am comparing the different techniques with my basic setup. We got intermittent NFT, continuous NFT, and Aero/Intermittent NFT all in the same conditions.. will be fun to see the best. And now we got sherriberry possibly doing Aero/continuous NFT!

PS - the LED is so bright, it penetrates through my fence posts! The inside of the fence posts glows pink where the LED is above.. and it might be hurting my roots. It's not a light leak.. it's that fucking bright! I might paint my posts black.

Fuck yeh! co2 and HUGE fan for ur lights, ur lucky u dont get urself sucked thru 745cfm Yeh my design specs are for light footprint too..8 ounces every 2 weeks far from sucks ass (thats $1200 a week where im from), i have no doubt u'll hit poundage..

So ur going to give ur clones 2 weeks to root the another 2 weeks veg yeh? U using then same Stink aero cloner set-up? Ima go 2weeks for clones to root then straight into flower

As lighting goes i live and die HPS, there cant be any better, i havnt even looked into LED in a serious way so im far from well informed but HPS is for big dense dank, and the more HPS u can afford/risk/handle the better.. MH for Mums (im Aussie btw lol) and T5's for
clones BAM!
Im not trying to convince u of HPS, thatd be like u trying to change me to led, just saying
Forgot to look at ur latest pics, that shit is so nice, lush.

 

[repvip]

PAR lighting is not accumalative. There is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to PAR lighting. Either the plants are getting optimal lighting or they are not. Two hours of half optimal PAR is not equal to one hour of optimal PAR lighting. If a plant puts on say 1 gram of mass from an hour of lighting at a PAR rating of say 6 units. It is not going to put on 1 gram of mass from two hours of lighting with a PAR of 3 units. PAR is not accumalative. PAR is the light received at any given time not over a period of time. If t your lights are say 2000 watts. Say 50 watts per square foot, so 40 square feet of likely adequate PAR coverage. Simply putting those lights on tracks does not mean you can increase the area of coverage while supplying optimal PAR to all the area plus the additional area. It just means for a shrter while the plants are getting optimal PAR and the rest of the time they are getting less than optimal PAR.

Track lights are simply a way of using fewer large lights rather than the same wattage of lights in mutiple fixtures which would have a mi uch higher purchase price. If you have an area of say 100 square feet. That means 5000 watts. So a tracking system allows the use of five 1000 watt lights moved around rather than twenty 250 watt lights sitting stationary. That is all they are good for really. They do not allow you to get the same growth by using 2500 watts of lighting on tracks rather than 5000 watts. No free lunch. They are only meant to save the money spent on multiple fixtures veri us a lessor number of larger fixture.

I understand.

There were multiple reasons why I did what I did. Some were energy restraints, some were height..

My fence posts units were designed to fit the footprint of these lights when placed directly over top on a light mover. Why? Because, with one or two 1000w lights, there were always problems keeping the light close to most of the plants, most of the time. Besides, do barely rooted clones need 1000w of light? It's a progression from lower intensity to higher intensity lighting as the units are rotated.

The physics makes sense as well, on both ends. Your side makes sense, but how long of tracks were you thinking of? Mine are only 4'. My side makes sense, because the light coverage is better. Replacing the 1000w hps with a 600w and 400w allows on a light mover allows me to, at the same cost, increase the efficiency of the lights because of the decreased distance. Sure I could do just as well with 2 1000w lights placed 2 ft above, but why? The 400w will soon be replaced by an identical 600w. Surely 2 600w HPS on a light mover is better than 1 1000w HPS.

Light movers are generally accepted to increase your grow area 1.6 times. I'm not that greedy.

If I could quickly find a good lumen depreciation chart with distance, I could easily point it out. Since I can't.. just consider the inverse square law. Twice the distance=1/4 the light. Thrice the distance=1/9 the light. I don't know how many growers get their 1000w within 12". A 600w at 4" is doable. Well, that's 3x distance in that example, making the lights comparably efficient.

I will go with much more intensity for slightly less 'optimal light' time... maybe 30% of the time it's not 'optimal light', but the 70% when it is, is very optimal.

Anyway, fartman, you are a smart dude, but sort of a nice guy about it.

 

[fatman7574]

Light track do not inceases light i outage. As I said all they do is sheplp to du istru ibute rhe light from a too imtnese light force out to accptable light levels. They ac not crteate light. What I am saying is based upon the inverse squatre law. basically you are doing as I sugesst that the tracks are good for doi ng. You are not trying to get more coverage with a small amount od light but more even coverage using I assume adequate lighting. To many people think that they can light as I daifd. More area with less light. Theinverse light law and AR meters how that is not possible. Sure with a light track you can beteer covered a large are with a large light than without a rtack using thesa, me light. You are not rying to provide light for a larger are but merely moving the light over rhe area to prevent any one rea from getting more light than another. Big difference. However it is still a fact that with an areas of say 2.08'by 8' (60 watts per sqaure foot) and an arrangement of four 250 watt lights without movers will provide better ligthing than a 1000 watt light on a light track. That is a proven fact. While the track and single light 1000 watt set up may be cheaper initially, the four lamp system has a very quick pay back due to increased yields. Tracks better the short term economics but still falls short in the medium and long term.

 

[repvip]

Fuck yeh! co2 and HUGE fan for ur lights, ur lucky u dont get urself sucked thru 745cfm Yeh my design specs are for light footprint too..8 ounces every 2 weeks far from sucks ass (thats $1200 a week where im from), i have no doubt u'll hit poundage..

So ur going to give ur clones 2 weeks to root the another 2 weeks veg yeh? U using then same Stink aero cloner set-up? Ima go 2weeks for clones to root then straight into flower

As lighting goes i live and die HPS, there cant be any better, i havnt even looked into LED in a serious way so im far from well informed but HPS is for big dense dank, and the more HPS u can afford/risk/handle the better.. MH for Mums (im Aussie btw lol) and T5's for
clones BAM!
Im not trying to convince u of HPS, thatd be like u trying to change me to led, just saying
Forgot to look at ur latest pics, that shit is so nice, lush.

Actually, I forgot to post the pics! I had to go back and edit.

I realize HPS is the way to go.. Like in my previous post, will soon have 2 600w and the LED. I only use LEDs for vegging (well, I consider the first 2 weeks in bloom to still be vegging, and still use veg nutes).

Of course four 1000w HPS lights would be better. More is always better... I think the real argument is between 600w and 1000w, at least for most people who do this as a hobby.

Still using stinkbud cloners and all that. Yes I want 2 weeks in cloner, 2 weeks vegging, then bloom.

I have 3 clones units 2 veg units 1 mother unit... plus my favorite unit, haha

It's hard to get good pics with LEDs on.. all the purple. Also, I wouldn't recommend sativa in a SOG.

 

[repvip]

fatman you are a smarty for sure! Do you use a wireless keyboard?
I think you should just tell me what to do.

how much attention am i going to have to give to my res, checking nutes, ppms, ph, etc?

... if i go with these fine mist sprayers?

Sorry will bring it back on topic though... sort of.. sherriberry asked about nutes and fine misters. What type of nutes do you recommend for medium and high pressure aeroponics? I was under the impression organic nutes tended to clog more, is that true with the medium psi as well?

 

[fatman7574]

Proper PAR is best regardless of how you achieve it. With out a light mover for an example I would likely with a rectangular grow of say 2' by 8' choose two 400 watts lights versus one 1000 watt light. The growth would be more even as the Par would be more even. The Par at the ends of the grow with the single 1000 watt light would be too low and the PAR in the center would be so high as to require the light be raised to reduce the intensity. I really do not know how there can be any comparison between a 600 watt light and a 1000 watt light used over the same area. Od course if the 600 wattt acn deliver optimal PAR for the area being lit it would be better as it would be cheaper to purcahse and operate and it is quite possible to provide too much light.

 

[sherriberry]

would checking on the res and plants once a day be enough?

or can things swing out of control faster than that?

 

[streetlegal]

Light track do not inceases light i outage. As I said all they do is sheplp to du istru ibute rhe light from a too imtnese light force out to accptable light levels. They ac not crteate light. What I am saying is based upon the inverse squatre law. basically you are doing as I sugesst that the tracks are good for doi ng. You are not trying to get more coverage with a small amount od light but more even coverage using I assume adequate lighting. To many people think that they can light as I daifd. More area with less light. Theinverse light law and AR meters how that is not possible. Sure with a light track you can beteer covered a large are with a large light than without a rtack using thesa, me light. You are not rying to provide light for a larger are but merely moving the light over rhe area to prevent any one rea from getting more light than another. Big difference. However it is still a fact that with an areas of say 2.08'by 8' (60 watts per sqaure foot) and an arrangement of four 250 watt lights without movers will provide better ligthing than a 1000 watt light on a light track. That is a proven fact. While the track and single light 1000 watt set up may be cheaper initially, the four lamp system has a very quick pay back due to increased yields. Tracks better the short term economics but still falls short in the medium and long term.

I gave up after the third line, bad spelling

Anyway, fartman, you are a smart dude, but sort of a nice guy about it.

You too RV

 

[streetlegal]

would checking on the res and plants once a day be enough?

or can things swing out of control faster than that?

SherriB are u talking growing TAG? or just aero/nft with misters? cos i could help u there..
and imo res maintenance would be the same for aero/nft with sprayers OR misters..
But for TAG, res maintenance is included in that link i posted previously me thought?

 

[fatman7574]

I gave up after the third line, bad spelling



You too RV

If someone can point me to a spell check on this forum I would quite happy to use it. Then again about half the replies in this forum have mis-spelling to include streetldeals's replies. I think he probably considers it slang. Just bad english or mispelling, or trying to be cute. Are you trying to be cute or are you just being childish, immature and insultive ? This is not a text serviv ce. Real words can actually be used here dirt bag not childish text meassageing. What are you a high schooler?