CIA takes a hit in Afghanistan

[doc111]

I refuse to believe it's just a bunch of idiots at the top who honestly have our best interest at heart. There is no way our system could produce the worst people to be the leader, the system is designed to keep the people with power in power, and everything else is an illusion to make all of us believe we have some sort of choice in the matter, that our votes actually count towards something. The thing about that is, if all the people, from each party, are running the exact same scam, whoever gets elected from either side doesn't matter to the power and control structure, no policies change, nothing changes except the people "in charge". That's why when people play partisan politics, I feel like slapping them in the face because they're so goddamn stupid and don't see the obvious scam going on right in front of their face. I'm not alluding to some shadow government with a select group of people in control of the world like Alex Jones spouts off, I'm talking realistic, logically supported motivations for these people to take the money over what's best for America, and we're all susceptible to the same thing, greed. It's imprinted on us as human beings. We're monkeys who have figured out how to use money. The basic animal instincts are always going to be there. Am I saying all politicans are this way? Of course not, that's absurd. I'm sure some of them are honest people who do have Americas best interest at heart, but there's not enough of them. The corrupt ones far outweigh the honest ones.

This same structure works for the military. I bet almost all of the people in the military are honest people just trying to do their job and support their country the best way they know how. But they've been misled, lied to, misinformed, and fed propaganda their entire life as a consequence of the way we live in America. I experienced it myself, I was planning on joining the Airforce for at least 5 years as a kid, going through till about 11th or 12th grade. The propaganda machine did a pretty good job on me for a while, and actually got quite a bit of my friends to sign up. They tell you you're fighting for freedom, you grow up thinking it's honorable to fight for your country, without ever really considering who you might be fighting or why. And there's always an "enemy" to go defend our freedom from. Which is kind of ironic in a sick kind of way...

Why don't I actively protest this? Honestly, because most people don't believe it. Most people are under that exact same propaganda machine, still, as adults. The majority of the American public is not educated past a high school level.

/rant

We can't morally support this system when we know this stuff. I can't anyway. War should be unacceptable to any rational persons mind. Essentially what it comes down to is you support killing another human being because of a disagreement. When you're face to face with that realization it's a little different right, but when you're thousands of miles from home "just following orders" from a guy who gets his foreign policy advice from a page in genesis, somehow it's OK, because war is an ugly business? Nah man.. not in my book. In my opinion, anyone who makes a profit from human suffering, which doesn't only apply to fighting a war, is sick.

Excellent example of the good the soldiers can do in the world.

Dude, of course war is sick! Of course it's bad. I never said I support the idea of war. I support the reality of it when it becomes a necessity. That doesn't mean I like it and am eager to go to war. With Iraq we obviously jumped the gun and we lost a bit of what we used to stand for when we invaded, but I believe Afghanistan to be a war of necessity. Lives are at stake. The lives of people we know, people we love, people that have never heard of some of the places we are fighting. There are people who are killing innocent civilians in the name of their God. I don't ever support the killing of human beings, ever. But if faced with my own survival or the survival of the one's I care about, it's not even a question.............I will kill in order to defend myself or my family. If that makes a blood thirsty, evil person, then so be it. And as far as how corrupt our govt. is and how we aren't represented anymore.................I totally agree. Our govt. needs a serious overhaul. Things are bad and they're getting worse. Nothing will change until the people become fed up with what's going on in Washington.

 

[Operation 420]

I don't know him personally but I've heard this before. The opium trade is the only real economy that country has. And yes, corruption is rampant. We aren't going to change these people's way of life overnight. And personally, I don't want to. Let them grow poppies and make all the smack they want. I think drugs should be legal no matter how bad they are for you. It should be a fundamental right for anybody to put whatever they want in their body, as long as they aren't harming anyone else of course.

This is the money connection though. You don't think we keep drugs illegal so we can profit? Where does the majority of that opium go? Wouldn't you think that since our troops are right in the country, the flow of heroin from Afghanistan to America would stop?

Although that's just the icing on the cake. The real deal is control of the currency (opium in this case) > government > people.

 

[doc111]

I refuse to believe it's just a bunch of idiots at the top who honestly have our best interest at heart. There is no way our system could produce the worst people to be the leader, the system is designed to keep the people with power in power, and everything else is an illusion to make all of us believe we have some sort of choice in the matter, that our votes actually count towards something. The thing about that is, if all the people, from each party, are running the exact same scam, whoever gets elected from either side doesn't matter to the power and control structure, no policies change, nothing changes except the people "in charge". That's why when people play partisan politics, I feel like slapping them in the face because they're so goddamn stupid and don't see the obvious scam going on right in front of their face. I'm not alluding to some shadow government with a select group of people in control of the world like Alex Jones spouts off, I'm talking realistic, logically supported motivations for these people to take the money over what's best for America, and we're all susceptible to the same thing, greed. It's imprinted on us as human beings. We're monkeys who have figured out how to use money. The basic animal instincts are always going to be there. Am I saying all politicans are this way? Of course not, that's absurd. I'm sure some of them are honest people who do have Americas best interest at heart, but there's not enough of them. The corrupt ones far outweigh the honest ones.

This same structure works for the military. I bet almost all of the people in the military are honest people just trying to do their job and support their country the best way they know how. But they've been misled, lied to, misinformed, and fed propaganda their entire life as a consequence of the way we live in America. I experienced it myself, I was planning on joining the Airforce for at least 5 years as a kid, going through till about 11th or 12th grade. The propaganda machine did a pretty good job on me for a while, and actually got quite a bit of my friends to sign up. They tell you you're fighting for freedom, you grow up thinking it's honorable to fight for your country, without ever really considering who you might be fighting or why. And there's always an "enemy" to go defend our freedom from. Which is kind of ironic in a sick kind of way...

Why don't I actively protest this? Honestly, because most people don't believe it. Most people are under that exact same propaganda machine, still, as adults. The majority of the American public is not educated past a high school level.

/rant

We can't morally support this system when we know this stuff. I can't anyway. War should be unacceptable to any rational persons mind. Essentially what it comes down to is you support killing another human being because of a disagreement. When you're face to face with that realization it's a little different right, but when you're thousands of miles from home "just following orders" from a guy who gets his foreign policy advice from a page in genesis, somehow it's OK, because war is an ugly business? Nah man.. not in my book. In my opinion, anyone who makes a profit from human suffering, which doesn't only apply to fighting a war, is sick.

Excellent example of the good the soldiers can do in the world.

This is the money connection though. You don't think we keep drugs illegal so we can profit? Where does the majority of that opium go? Wouldn't you think that since our troops are right in the country, the flow of heroin from Afghanistan to America would stop?

Although that's just the icing on the cake. The real deal is control of the currency (opium in this case) > government > people.

You think it's that simple to cut off the flow of a commodity which people will steal, kill, lie and cheat in order to protect. Afghanistan is a big country with a lot of difficult terrain. I can't say for sure that there isn't some sort of ulterior motive for the govt. I certainly hope there isn't and until someone can prove it I'll side with the people who aren't driving planes into buildings.

 

[PadawanBater]

You think it's that simple to cut off the flow of a commodity which people will steal, kill, lie and cheat in order to protect. Afghanistan is a big country with a lot of difficult terrain. I can't say for sure that there isn't some sort of ulterior motive for the govt. I certainly hope there isn't and until someone can prove it I'll side with the people who aren't driving planes into buildings.

Those are the same people who are using Americas best and brightest to make a buck.

 

[Operation 420]

You think it's that simple to cut off the flow of a commodity which people will steal, kill, lie and cheat in order to protect. Afghanistan is a big country with a lot of difficult terrain. I can't say for sure that there isn't some sort of ulterior motive for the govt. I certainly hope there isn't and until someone can prove it I'll side with the people who aren't driving planes into buildings.

I won't go into the 9/11 subject, but I'll leave you with this quote before it happened.

"The PNAC program, in a nutshell: America’s military must rule out even the possibility of a serious global or regional challenger anywhere in the world. The regime of Saddam Hussein must be toppled immediately, by U.S. force if necessary. And the entire Middle East must be reordered according to an American plan. PNAC’s most important study notes that selling this plan to the American people will likely take a long time, "absent some catastrophic catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor." (PNAC, Rebuilding America’s Defenses (1997), p.51)"

~ Dick Cheney

 

[doc111]

I won't go into the 9/11 subject, but I'll leave you with this quote before it happened.

"The PNAC program, in a nutshell: America’s military must rule out even the possibility of a serious global or regional challenger anywhere in the world. The regime of Saddam Hussein must be toppled immediately, by U.S. force if necessary. And the entire Middle East must be reordered according to an American plan. PNAC’s most important study notes that selling this plan to the American people will likely take a long time, "absent some catastrophic catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor." (PNAC, Rebuilding America’s Defenses (1997), p.51)"

~ Dick Cheney

Sorry man, I'm not a "Truther". Keep this in mind: the more complicated a conspiracy becomes, the less likely there was a conspiracy at all. People say a lot of things. Some of them seem, in hindsight, almost a little too prophetic. I told my wife over 2 1/2 years ago that we were headed for a global recession. She hates it when I bring it up because she can't stand the fact that I was right. I'm no Nostradamus though. Just an astute observer of world events.

 

[doc111]

Those are the same people who are using Americas best and brightest to make a buck.

The people at the top have always gotten richer off the sweat and blood of the masses. This is nothing new, and not likely to change anytime soon.

 

[Operation 420]

The people at the top have always gotten richer off the sweat and blood of the masses. This is nothing new, and not likely to change anytime soon.

Your attitude is one that we have always been like this and we always will, because, well, that's the way it is.

This attitude that we have always been at war, so we should always be at at war.

What was that Einstein quote again?

Lemme guess, Cheney said that to throw people off. That's how "complicated" this agenda is, they say exactly what they're going to do, before they do it.

I think you see the light Doc, but you think that in order to be righteous, we need to kill people in the name of what or who? God? Does God condone killing people?

 

[PadawanBater]

The people at the top have always gotten richer off the sweat and blood of the masses. This is nothing new, and not likely to change anytime soon.

Not with that attitude.

Which is the first 1/2 of the problem.

 

[doc111]

Your attitude is one that we have always been like this and we always will, because, well, that's the way it is.

This attitude that we have always been at war, so we should always be at at war.

What was that Einstein quote again?

Lemme guess, Cheney said that to throw people off. That's how "complicated" this agenda is, they say exactly what they're going to do, before they do it.

I think you see the light Doc, but you think that in order to be righteous, we need to kill people in the name of what or who? God? Does God condone killing people?

So what are you or anybody else on here doing to change shit in Washington? The world? My congressman knows me by first name. I write more angry letters and e-mails than anybody I know. I've shown up at his office and talked with him and his staff numerous times. And in order to make things better one must look at themselves first. I don't accept the status quo but I'm not going to go shoot up a federal building because I'm unhappy about our foreign policy. And I don't condone the killing of anyone (I thought I already stated this).

 

[medicineman]

The congress is bought and paid for. The white house are puppets. The puppet masters like war, it's profitable for them. What are the other 300 million people to do about this? It is amazing that the American people have been so brainwashed that they allow their government to act the way they do. It's way more than just about taxes and MJ being illegal. What makes it feasable is the wannabees. Those that aspire to be an Elite, they are the ones that keep the capitalistic BS going. If the greedy pricks would step back and look at the big picture, maybe this country could really be the leader in the "free" world again. This however will never happen in my opinion. We are doomed just like all those empires before that ended because of debt and greed. Keep your guns well oiled and at the ready.

 

[PadawanBater]

So what are you or anybody else on here doing to change shit in Washington? The world? My congressman knows me by first name. I write more angry letters and e-mails than anybody I know. I've shown up at his office and talked with him and his staff numerous times. And in order to make things better one must look at themselves first. I don't accept the status quo but I'm not going to go shoot up a federal building because I'm unhappy about our foreign policy. And I don't condone the killing of anyone (I thought I already stated this).

That pointless shit is futile. Just like I said before. Your congressman is one guy, even if he was the most honest motherfucker on the hill he's still just one guy. This system is too complex for things like letters or emails to mean a goddamn thing. That's the way they want it. Just like the checks and balances within legit gov. there is a system of checks and balances that keep the honest politicians from ever rising to any position of actual power. Point in case, Ron Paul.

Education is key. It'll probably take 5 or 10 more generations to accomplish anything substantial, which doesn't give you or me shit to look forward to, except something to strive for. But if you're not in the fight to begin with, and just roll over and take the situation as it is because well, that's just the way it is, then I don't know what to tell you...

 

[doc111]

The congress is bought and paid for. The white house are puppets. The puppet masters like war, it's profitable for them. What are the other 300 million people to do about this? It is amazing that the American people have been so brainwashed that they allow their government to act the way they do. It's way more than just about taxes and MJ being illegal. What makes it feasable is the wannabees. Those that aspire to be an Elite, they are the ones that keep the capitalistic BS going. If the greedy pricks would step back and look at the big picture, maybe this country could really be the leader in the "free" world again. This however will never happen in my opinion. We are doomed just like all those empires before that ended because of debt and greed. Keep your guns well oiled and at the ready.

And I will pose this same question to you medman. What are you doing about it? If you trully believe this then it is your obligation as a patriot to act...............and I mean besides oiling your guns.

 

[doc111]

That pointless shit is futile. Just like I said before. Your congressman is one guy, even if he was the most honest motherfucker on the hill he's still just one guy. This system is too complex for things like letters or emails to mean a goddamn thing. That's the way they want it. Just like the checks and balances within legit gov. there is a system of checks and balances that keep the honest politicians from ever rising to any position of actual power. Point in case, Ron Paul.

Education is key. It'll probably take 5 or 10 more generations to accomplish anything substantial, which doesn't give you or me shit to look forward to, except something to strive for. But if you're not in the fight to begin with, and just roll over and take the situation as it is because well, that's just the way it is, then I don't know what to tell you...

See that's what I'm told my problem has always been. When I see something wrong I speak up. I don't accept shit the way it is. I want change. We were promised change with this current president and I'm not seeing it. He's a political sock puppet just like the rest of them.

 

[medicineman]

And I will pose this same question to you medman. What are you doing about it? If you trully believe this then it is your obligation as a patriot to act...............and I mean besides oiling your guns.

I do all the usual, phone, email, snailmail. Nothing comes of it. I get a formletter telling me everything will be alright. At 69, I'm a little old to start a revolution, but if I see one that has a chance of not being wiped out in the first 12 hours, I may take my AK, a few hundred rounds, my bullet resistant vest, a couple of handguns, and join. I see you are buddies with your Congressman. Is he getting you more business through the buddy system. That's what it is really about, eh, getting something and contributing to their campaigns. If you are a staunch conservative, and you appear to be, then you are naturally a crook. Thats my opinion. What you guys call success, I call taking advantage of the system for your own gain, crooks.

 

[PadawanBater]

I do all the usual, phone, email, snailmail. Nothing comes of it. I get a formletter telling me everything will be alright. At 69, I'm a little old to start a revolution, but if I see one that has a chance of not being wiped out in the first 12 hours, I may take my AK, a few hundred rounds, my bullet resistant vest, a couple of handguns, and join. I see you are buddies with your Congressman. Is he getting you more business through the buddy system. That's what it is really about, eh, getting something and contributing to their campaigns. If you are a staunch conservative, and you appear to be, then you are naturally a crook. Thats my opinion. What you guys call success, I call taking advantage of the system for your own gain, crooks.

Aww man, don't jump the gun like that. Doc actually seems like in my opinion the most reasonable conservative (if he even is that) on the boards. Like we need more Vi's or Rick's running their mouths around here...

Good perspectives doc, even though we disagree.

 

[doc111]

I do all the usual, phone, email, snailmail. Nothing comes of it. I get a formletter telling me everything will be alright. At 69, I'm a little old to start a revolution, but if I see one that has a chance of not being wiped out in the first 12 hours, I may take my AK, a few hundred rounds, my bullet resistant vest, a couple of handguns, and join. I see you are buddies with your Congressman. Is he getting you more business through the buddy system. That's what it is really about, eh, getting something and contributing to their campaigns. If you are a staunch conservative, and you appear to be, then you are naturally a crook. Thats my opinion. What you guys call success, I call taking advantage of the system for your own gain, crooks.

First off you shouldn't assume (I'll spare you the cliche of what happens when yo do that). I am an independent who is more likely to vote libertarian than anything else so you're wrong. See, I want to see the size of govt. shrink, not get bigger. I already lament the loss of our freedom to put any substance that I feel the need to in my body. I don't want to lose any more freedoms so I don't vote for either of the 2 parties anymore and haven't for years. You don't know me so stop making the inflammatory generalizations. It really weakens your credibility.

 

[doc111]

Aww man, don't jump the gun like that. Doc actually seems like in my opinion the most reasonable conservative (if he even is that) on the boards. Like we need more Vi's or Rick's running their mouths around here...

Good perspectives doc, even though we disagree.

Thank you Padwan. I simply enjoy playing devil's advocate and letting people see the other side for a change.

 

[jeff f]

Like I said before, and jeff must have missed the fuck out of, there are equally as terrible regimes, people, warlords, criminals all over the world who are doing much worse shit than the Taliban, yet not a fuckin' PEEP from any American official... Nothing to protect with the red white and blue on it in those countries, so fuck the populations, they couldn't give a damn less.

who? where? list them and i will tell ya what we are doing or should do. in other words, i accept your challenge.

 

[jeff f]

Look up the countries that don't have their currency controlled by the World Bank. Hmm, seems to match our list of enemies doesn't it?

It's all about money and power. Like I said, if it wasn't, we would be in Darfur right now. How many people have died in that genocide?

and bro, I appreciate your service and this isn't a bash on fellow service men/women. (Ooh Rah!) This is a bash on the governments that are using our boys and girls like cattle.
/salute

what do you do for a living?