MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

[sherriberry]

thanks, i understand what you are saying completely...

i was hoping someone would chime in with harsh reality of what they have accomplished in the past with a similar setup.

I will try shorter cycles, and obviously if i do have any fuzzing, ill let you know about it.

In the meantime, if i dont, im okay with that too... like you said, it can still grow some big trees.

Plant size is much dependent on root size... and root size is obviously about chamber size.

How tall were your chambers?

 

[tree farmer]

thanks, i understand what you are saying completely...

i was hoping someone would chime in with harsh reality of what they have accomplished in the past with a similar setup.

I will try shorter cycles, and obviously if i do have any fuzzing, ill let you know about it.

In the meantime, if i dont, im okay with that too... like you said, it can still grow some big trees.

Plant size is much dependent on root size... and root size is obviously about chamber size.

How tall were your chambers?

20 inches is the distance from one side of the round tub to the other and 18inches tall. heres a pic of an old one i had as a spare that now holds some extra plumbing parts.

i had a ten inch netpot on a plexiglass top with 4 of of the dripirrigation sprayers. had 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 drain but it was overkill. 3/4 would have been fine. the drip irrigation sprayers were threaded into some 1 inch hose with a thick wall that surrounded the netpot. same as my hp now only the HP is only 1/4 inch and uses fittings and different nozzels but the placement is the same.

 

[sherriberry]

so im late into flower, and my leaves have green veins, but are pale between veins, and new leaves are coming in super pale, and just falling off pretty much.

im thinking more cal mag?

im in those stupid stinkbud fence posts, with the 60-80 micron sprayers

i dont use any folair feeding or epsom salts of any kind

ph is 5.8

My buds arent big at all... but if you remember i had a serious drought, and im happy just to have my plants alive. (power outage and pump shut off for 8 hours)

buds finally started gaining weight again, but im worried im just running out of time, ... or can i just keep waiting and letting the plants go?

any thoughts?

 

[sherriberry]

The mains power (or whatever voltage the solenoids, pumps will use) is connected to the relays "common" contacts.
When the coil is not powered up the commons connect to the normally closed (n/c) contacts.
When the coil is powered the commons connect to the normally open (n/o) contacts.

You connect the solenoid or pump to either the n/o or nc contacts depending on whether you want them to run when the coil is powered or not powered.

The pic attached (mains to battery switching) has the com, n/o and n/c contacts marked. The coil is powered.

k, so my little relays that you linked showed up today (the 120vac ones)

to switch to reverse polarity, so when there is current, the solenoid gets no current and vise versa...

so looking at the top of this little relay...

it has 8 poles, that are all numbered.

7 and 8 are at the bottom, and are the only 2 that are vertical tabs.

All the others are horizontal (1-6)

So, im assuming 7 and 8 are the two that i connect to the timer (one black and one white, pos and neg)

and then i assume 1-6 are where i would attach the other ones that go to the solenoid... but im not sure which 2 to hook it up to.

Thanks guys

ps, how often do these things wear out? i bought 3 just incase they do, and then got 4 of the 12v ones for the float sensors coming as well.

Thanks


update..

i see it has a little diagram on the side... i shows 7 and 8 connected by a lateral line.

Then 1 3 and 5 are a circuit, and 2 4 and 6 are a circut.

It looks like 1 and 5 are normally closed, and then if im reading this right, i assume the switch flips over to the 3 side, and connects the circuit to 3 when the power is on between 7 and 8...

does that sound right? Thanks

 

[tree farmer]

so im late into flower, and my leaves have green veins, but are pale between veins, and new leaves are coming in super pale, and just falling off pretty much.

im thinking more cal mag?

im in those stupid stinkbud fence posts, with the 60-80 micron sprayers

i dont use any folair feeding or epsom salts of any kind

ph is 5.8

My buds arent big at all... but if you remember i had a serious drought, and im happy just to have my plants alive. (power outage and pump shut off for 8 hours)

buds finally started gaining weight again, but im worried im just running out of time, ... or can i just keep waiting and letting the plants go?

any thoughts?

what nutes you using? what ppm you at? if you have a ph and ppm meter check the drain ph and ppm and see how it compares to whats going in. are you cycling the mist or running constant. if constant then checking the drain ph and ppm wont be of any help but if not you can figure alot out from those numbers. it could be the ppm level is to low or the nutes you are currently using are to low with nitrogen. id try and correct it cause it will affect your yield unless your way way into flower. and if you dont figure it out you wont know how to correct it next time if it happens.

im finding out that for HP aero it would be pretty hard to run a recirculating system unless you were using a strain you already had developed the proper ec and mist cycles for because the DTW is so valuable in determining what is going on in HP because the ec levels and nute ratios are pretty sensitive.

 

[sherriberry]

first off i figured out the relay, so thats cool

my ppm's are around 1500, but 300 of that is the tap water

it could be low ppm's

i just changed my water yesterday for the first time in a long time.

i wasnt running much cal mag plus at all...

so, i think its iron or cal or mag... because when i read the descriptions, iron fits my problem best.

anyway... before i changed the water, i let the ppms rise on it (as they do because the plants drink more water than they do nutes, so i replace buckets of water, and dont need to add nutes to keep the ppm's the same)

i know i need a good ro water system... im getting one for my next setup

other thing im wondering is what c02 deficiency looks like?

im prob gonna get co2 on my next run as well

i will try and measure my waste water coming back to the res to figure out whats going on.

What kinds of tests can i do? if ph is lower, whats that mean, and if its higher whats that mean?

I have a feeling ppm will have to be higher since plants are drinking water, and ppms in my res go up pretty quick in a few days.

I think more than anythign it was the drought that really hurt me because plants were doing great prior to it... so i bet just between root damage, etc, and i did back off on the ppms for a while because i didnt want to burn the plants any further than they already were.

i have more than ample amounts of cal mag in there now... so we will see what that does.

 

[sherriberry]

im running AN 3 part btw. just the micro and the bloom, and also big bud.

not the sensi, just the plain jane stuff

im now doing 5 parts micro, 4 parts bloom and 4 parts big bud and prob around 3 parts cal mag plus and 2 parts liquid karma, and 3 parts diamond nector. And thats everything i use.

i was hoping fatman would chime in on powder nutes, and making them from scratch... or sending me some samples to try. I think hes vanished.

 

[Atomizer]

k, so my little relays that you linked showed up today (the 120vac ones)

to switch to reverse polarity, so when there is current, the solenoid gets no current and vise versa...

so looking at the top of this little relay...

it has 8 poles, that are all numbered.

7 and 8 are at the bottom, and are the only 2 that are vertical tabs.

All the others are horizontal (1-6)

So, im assuming 7 and 8 are the two that i connect to the timer (one black and one white, pos and neg)

and then i assume 1-6 are where i would attach the other ones that go to the solenoid... but im not sure which 2 to hook it up to.

Thanks guys

ps, how often do these things wear out? i bought 3 just incase they do, and then got 4 of the 12v ones for the float sensors coming as well.

Thanks


update..

i see it has a little diagram on the side... i shows 7 and 8 connected by a lateral line.

Then 1 3 and 5 are a circuit, and 2 4 and 6 are a circut.

It looks like 1 and 5 are normally closed, and then if im reading this right, i assume the switch flips over to the 3 side, and connects the circuit to 3 when the power is on between 7 and 8...

does that sound right? Thanks

Relays last a fair while, the ones i use are rated >200,000 cycles at full load, the mechanical life is >10 million cycles. You can usually track down the relays spec sheet from the info on the relay (make/model).
The easiest way to identify/confirm the pins is to use a continuity tester/multi-meter.
Sounds like 7&8 are the coil, 1&2 are the commons, 5&6 are normally closed and 3&4 are normally open.

 

[fatman7574]

im running AN 3 part btw. just the micro and the bloom, and also big bud.

not the sensi, just the plain jane stuff

im now doing 5 parts micro, 4 parts bloom and 4 parts big bud and prob around 3 parts cal mag plus and 2 parts liquid karma, and 3 parts diamond nector. And thats everything i use.

i was hoping fatman would chime in on powder nutes, and making them from scratch... or sending me some samples to try. I think hes vanished.

Still around just not posting to the nutrient thread anymore as I am tired of dealing with that antiquated soil grower Uncle Ben. Actually I do not think he really even grows anymore but just talks like it. His stories change so much who knows. But, what ever.

 

[sherriberry]

Still around just not posting to the nutrient thread anymore as I am tired of dealing with that antiquated soil grower Uncle Ben. Actually I do not think he really even grows anymore but just talks like it. His stories change so much who knows. But, what ever.

im serious about this fatman... im to the point where ive got everythign else figured out finally INCLUDING RELAYS

I know, im sweet

Anyway... i seriously want to start mixing up my own nutes, but dont want to mess up... i cant afford to.

Im doing my best to try to understand your jibberish, its a foreign language right now... but im starting to grasp a lot of it.

Im just scared to go to the store and start buying this stuff...

because if i buy the wrong shit, im screwed.

I mean, is it illegal to ship powdered nutes?

Are all the nutes you use in powder form originally?

Im not kidding, i will send you cash, if you can ship me the labled nutes, in quantities I can manage and afford to test around with...

and since AN does a 50383049% markup... as you say, jsut cut that markup in half or in 1/4th, and make a few bucks, and then i can start to toy with this shit on a more precise level as you guys do.

Obviously, i believe you know how to grow healthy plants...

anyway, let me know, peace

 

[GrayRoanek]

Hello to everyone. Love this journal. Fatman you're my idol. Tree farmer, way to go, never satisfied are you. BTW, those roots were AWESOME when you got the right feeding cycle.

Been reading up on bubbleponics and aeroponics and will read the NASA papers sometime soon.

I have tons of questions and observations. But first I have a few products that might interest you.

Pump: /http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-5064-550-demand-pump-49-gpm-12-fpt-115v-ac-w-cord.aspx?affiliateid=10053

Media: http://www.suretogrow.com/hydroponic-products

Nozzles: http://www.mistcooling.com/misting_nozzles.htm
I've seen nozzles with filters like these but metal.
http://www.greenhillmfg.com/htdocs/foginlin.htm

One observation. Fatman said the plants will tell you what they want. At one point, TF was
feeding EC 900 and his waste was EC 300. Doesn't this mean he should up the nutes? I
have heard HP aero feeding upto 4000! (Not sure I believe after this journal).

A quick question for Fatman. Where do you buy your nutrients, from chemical suppliers or
argricultural suppliers? If you won't dilvuge your special formulas, perhaps you could direct us to a good book or website.

Lastly, I'm interested in ultrasonic foggers as a simpler aero method. Yes, I know most
foggers put out a 'dry' fog. The're using a very high frequency ~1.5 Mhz generating ~5u
droplets. Lower Hz will create larger droplets. Sonic foggers and muffin fans to distribute the fog replace HP pumps, accumalators, selenoids, etc. I've searching for the
required transducers, probably find them from China.

P.S. Sheriberry, better have the air compressor on a UPS or those roots will rot. And plenty
of airstones.

 

[tree farmer]

Hello to everyone. Love this journal. Fatman you're my idol. Tree farmer, way to go, never satisfied are you. BTW, those roots were AWESOME when you got the right feeding cycle.

Been reading up on bubbleponics and aeroponics and will read the NASA papers sometime soon.

I have tons of questions and observations. But first I have a few products that might interest you.

Pump: /http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-5064-550-demand-pump-49-gpm-12-fpt-115v-ac-w-cord.aspx?affiliateid=10053

Media: http://www.suretogrow.com/hydroponic-products

Nozzles: http://www.mistcooling.com/misting_nozzles.htm
I've seen nozzles with filters like these but metal.
http://www.greenhillmfg.com/htdocs/foginlin.htm

One observation. Fatman said the plants will tell you what they want. At one point, TF was
feeding EC 900 and his waste was EC 300. Doesn't this mean he should up the nutes? I
have heard HP aero feeding upto 4000! (Not sure I believe after this journal).

A quick question for Fatman. Where do you buy your nutrients, from chemical suppliers or
argricultural suppliers? If you won't dilvuge your special formulas, perhaps you could direct us to a good book or website.

Lastly, I'm interested in ultrasonic foggers as a simpler aero method. Yes, I know most
foggers put out a 'dry' fog. The're using a very high frequency ~1.5 Mhz generating ~5u
droplets. Lower Hz will create larger droplets. Sonic foggers and muffin fans to distribute the fog replace HP pumps, accumalators, selenoids, etc. I've searching for the
required transducers, probably find them from China.

P.S. Sheriberry, better have the air compressor on a UPS or those roots will rot. And plenty
of airstones.

ive seen those pumps they are pretty similar to the one i have on my RO system. i didnt see the pressure rating though. ive been wanting to take mine from the ro system and try it on the HP system to see if it could pump my accumulator up to 100psi and how long it would take but havent got to it yet. they sure are quiet though compared to the shurflo.

ive seen the video on that media also and it looks like some nice stuff just not sure how much moisture it would hold. im really liking the bioballs for the netpot but the experment of them on the chamber floor is not all i hoped for. the silk screen lifted bottom is better i think.

Im still working on those ec levels to see what works best but these ladies are taking alot more ec than the last ones so i may have been underfeeding last time. im monitoring the runoff closer now to try and get a grasp on what the input ec should be but its a work in progress. almost everything i have read says HP aero takes less nutes. do you have a link to anything where they were feeding that high. id be interested in seeing it as i always try and keep an open mind.

lot of people have tried the foggers without much success but maybe you have a different angle and can make it work. the only way to know is try. ive learned more from all my mistakes than i have from all the reading ive done. nothing like trying something and then figuring out how to make it work. i wish alot of times someone had the answer so i wouldnt have to do trial and error but youll find out when doing something different your on your own. glad you stopped by. good luck and let us know how the ultrasonics works out.

 

[sherriberry]

the pump he linked has a chart if you click the technical data link below the description once you are too the page. It looked like it went to 70psi, not shabby.

as far as air stones, yes, i jsut bought a big ass air pump today that came with a 12 port manifold and each port has a nice little valve, and its made of metal... so there will be 1, if not 2 air stones per tub.

Im debating between air stones or trying those rubber air hoses that are lazer cut, since they sell ones that are long, like the length of the tubs im using.

alright, so i got my relays... and the 12v ones came today... so now... what should i use for a battery? and do i need to attach a trickle charger to that battery somehow?

All this battery is going to be for is for the float level sensors, so not a lot of juice needed, i wouldnt think?

 

[Atomizer]

To save you messing around with a battery and charger you can buy a small "regulated" ac-dc adapter, 120v ac input/12v dc output @ 300mA is plenty.

A 70psi pump will put limits on the drawdown volume and working pressure range. With a 5 gal tank you`d get just over half a gal with 70psi to 60psi. If you can live with a lower pressure cut-in point, just over a gallon with 50psi to 70psi.

 

[sherriberry]

To save you messing around with a battery and charger you can buy a small "regulated" ac-dc adapter, 120v ac input/12v dc output @ 300mA is plenty.

A 70psi pump will put limits on the drawdown volume and working pressure range. With a 5 gal tank you`d get just over half a gal with 70psi to 60psi. If you can live with a lower pressure cut-in point, just over a gallon with 50psi to 70psi.

just go to radio shaq and get one or??? thanks boss

 

[tree farmer]

just go to radio shaq and get one or??? thanks boss

you can get them cheap from the same place you got the relays.
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-1251/12-VDC-500-MA-REGULATED-POWER-SUPPLY/-/1.html
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/PS-1236/12VDC-300MA-SWITCHING-POWER-SUPPLY/-/1.html
they have all different types. some regulated some not. ive got boxes of them from that company of all different voltages and amps. there just to cheap not to have a bunch around for when i need one. alot of times old wall transformers that power other electricial devices can be used. check that junk drawer with all the old wall plug in transformers might find something.

 

[GrayRoanek]

I'm bad. After a quick search I foound the Methodical, scientific approach to nutrients and nutrient formulations forum.
Marijuana Growing > The Grow Room > General Marijuana Growing > Nutrients
https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/295437-methodical-scientific-approach-nutrients-nutrient-1.html

In which Fatman discusses and critiques current commercial nutes. He also provides his nutrient recipes. ALL PRAISE TO FATMAN!!
Seems like someone should produce Fatman nutes and sell them for a reasonable price [Giving a hefty cut to the Prof].

Has anyone thought about using the mist for foliar feeding. After charging the root space, a fan and some flapper valves would feed the leaves and aerate the root chamber. This is a direct infusion of water and nutes to the leaves. Probably during dark periods.

One other thought. We assume 20/4 and 12/12 lighting cycles synch with solar days. What happens if you accelerate the rhythm? For veg, four cycles of 5/1. For flowering I assume a long 12 hour dark period is necessary. I'll check the web.

 

[Atomizer]

The regulated 500mA in TF`s link would do the trick nicely. A regulated supply is better than unregulated as it will maintain the 12v output voltage regardless of the load. The 12v relay you have draws about 33mA so that supply could run upto 15

 

[sherriberry]

Thats the reason for having a 12v dc coil relay, the other is the floatswitch is in the water and 12v dc won`t kill you
The floatswitch uses 12v dc to energise the relay coil and the relay coil then switches relay contacts with the mains voltage. The pump/floatswitch circuit uses a DPDT relay with a 12v dc coil and the cycle timer/solenoid circuit uses a DPDT relay with a 120v ac coil.

I looked on TF`s relay website and this relay (DPDT 12vdc coil, 8amp@240v) should do the job,
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/RLY-530/12VDC-DPDT-RELAY/1.html
Its designed for pcb mounting so you`ll need to solder some wires onto the pins but thats no biggy.

this quote is from a while ago...

but i just hooked up the float level relay today and it works!

here is what im wondering tho...

the sump pump im using already has a float switch that is one of those big balls just attached to a power cord...

problem is i cant figure out a way to keep it low enough so that a low amount of water makes it trigger... if that makes sense...

and its not precise. Thats why i just bought a different float sensor and im doing it that way.

I am guessing that the float sensor the sump pump uses is 120vac

reason im asking is if its NOT, then i could cut off its big bulky ball, and wire that directly to the level sensor i bought.

If i dont do it that way, i just plan on keeping that ball mounted in a perminent uptright position so it give the pump power, the realy is what dictates when it comes on and off.

ps... those pins on that relay... are like needles... i dont even understand how they can carry the currents it says its rated for at 8amp 120v ac... is insane.. im scared the elecricity is going to ark from one connection to another, or one pin to another for that matter

 

[sherriberry]

also, the reason i cant use the float sensor on the pump is because i cant figure out a way to "paperweight" it to the bottom of the tub... if you guys can think of something heavy that doenst hurt the nute water, AND that i could mount a clip so that i can attach the clip to the cord the ball is attached to.