doc111
Well-Known Member
That's kinda how I feel about it as well.Wow, I don't even know where to start.
"you and your family, and your friends all stand to benefit from the changes to our government Obama 'pretended' to support."
This is not true, at all, the indoctrination you've fallen victim to is sad.
dukeofbaja
New Member
Let's all put on our tin foil hats for a while.
doc111
Well-Known Member
My dog ate mine.
BigTitLvr
Well-Known Member
Wow, I don't even know where to start.
"you and your family, and your friends all stand to benefit from the changes to our government Obama 'pretended' to support."
This is not true, at all, the indoctrination you've fallen victim to is sad.
That's not a refute or an argument.
Besides, you're like a Christian, selecting half-quotes out of a science publication to 'prove' your point. Let's post the entire sentence to understand the truth of these words:
Unless you can afford any price for full service, the vast majority of America needs protection from price hikes and discriminatory practices that result in refusal of health care procedures.unless you really are one of those super-wealthy elite; you and your family, and your friends all stand to benefit from the changes to our government Obama 'pretended' to support.
American's now need medical coverage because the Health Insurance Industry has RAISED the price of a physician's care BEYOND what it would be if everyone paid cash. They started the vicious cycle and they keep it going. And someone outside of the industry MUST regulate them!
It is NO different then any other monopoly. The government has the duty to protect its civilians from dangers INSIDE and OUTSIDE our borders.
Jesus, are you people dense? No one wants the government to run these businesses. Government regulation is not even a perfect solution, but there MUST be laws written to protect the people, which we can use later to hold them accountable to human rights violations. (I guess you wont view it as a human rights violation until they deny YOU or YOUR CHILD care, will you?)
Did you like what the banks did to this country when they were able to remove government regulations? You idiots are a gluten for punishment, I guess.
I
Illegal Smile
Guest
If you can't be denied coverage for prior conditions, why would you buy the insurance until right when you needed it? Just like many of women go on public assistance every year to cover childbirth costs and then go back off. They would just pay the fine and be uninsured. And what would be the result of that? Insurance companies (incl the government) would have a very small risk pool and payment pool. So everyone would only have insurance for a few months after an illness or accident, but the premium would be $20k a month.
BigTitLvr
Well-Known Member
Who knows what people will actually do to try to get around this terrible legislation. Wealthy folks break the law to pay lower taxes, too- further exasperating the deficit. Right now there is no public option so the worst fears FAUX News has drilled into you wont even be considered yet.
All this crap is he trying to pass will do is prevent institutionalized murder.
doc111
Well-Known Member
Calling people who disagree with you position "idiots" is always the best way to get them to see your view.That's not a refute or an argument.
Besides, you're like a Christian, selecting half-quotes out of a science publication to 'prove' your point. Let's post the entire sentence to understand the truth of these words:
Unless you can afford any price for full service, the vast majority of America needs protection from price hikes and discriminatory practices that result in refusal of health care procedures.
American's now need medical coverage because the Health Insurance Industry has RAISED the price of a physician's care BEYOND what it would be if everyone paid cash. They started the vicious cycle and they keep it going. And someone outside of the industry MUST regulate them!
It is NO different then any other monopoly. The government has the duty to protect its civilians from dangers INSIDE and OUTSIDE our borders.
Jesus, are you people dense? No one wants the government to run these businesses. Government regulation is not even a perfect solution, but there MUST be laws written to protect the people, which we can use later to hold them accountable to human rights violations. (I guess you wont view it as a human rights violation until they deny YOU or YOUR CHILD care, will you?)
Did you like what the banks did to this country when they were able to remove government regulations? You idiots are a gluten for punishment, I guess.
BigTitLvr
Well-Known Member
I agree. I was too harsh. I just got a little excited.Calling people who disagree with you position "idiots" is always the best way to get them to see your view.
But fighting for wealthy CEOs to continue to get rich at the expense of American lives is both idiotic and un-American.
Unless anyone in the site really IS a wealthy CEO, I'm shocked at the amount of people here supporting the current wealth-draining and life-ending policies they employ.
YOUR tune will change once they deny YOU.
I
Illegal Smile
Guest
Since this thread was supposed to be about the house vote, back to topic: Massa's vote will go down as a no either way. They have to hold a special election this spring to fill the seat. The issue will be settled by then. Plus, the seat was considered a target for republicans even before the Massa stuff came up. In spite of saying now he was a no vote, I think he would have gone yes and I'm sure Pelosi thought so.
Antidisestablishmentarian
Well-Known Member
Health insurance companies are not too greedy. They have a extremely low profit margins.
http://healthcare.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Njk4NmQ3YmI1N2QzMWFjMzFiY2ZlMmVjNGUxZTNiMGM=
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/performers/industries/profits/http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/health-insurance-industry-ranks-86-by.html
http://healthcare.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Njk4NmQ3YmI1N2QzMWFjMzFiY2ZlMmVjNGUxZTNiMGM=
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2009/performers/industries/profits/http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/health-insurance-industry-ranks-86-by.html
BigTitLvr
Well-Known Member
Average 3.7% profit margin? Ouch! Now I understand why to cut losses and raise profit they deny a doctor's recommended care to their own paying customers.
The reason the majority support a single payer system is that health insurers ought to operating as not-for-profits, or coops. Their motivations should be driven by whats best for their member's health, NOT whats best for their pocketbooks.
Human life is more valuable then profits. Who does not agree?
If they wished to save even more money AND lives, perhaps lowering their CEO's 10 million-dollar-a-year salary and those of all his underlings would help.
FlyLikeAnEagle
Well-Known Member
Profit is factored in AFTER the tens of millions in salaries and bonuses, tens of millions spent in advertising, the tens of millions spent on defending and paying out lawsuits from screwing people, and the tens of millions paying shareholders.
BigTitLvr
Well-Known Member
DAMN! I totally forgot about that trick! Now that finally squares this report with the previous I read that said the big Insurance Companies were fighting Obama's requirement that they must not have more than a 15% profit margin.
Sure, paying 85% of your premium to the providers sounds like a lot. But remember, to pull it off they have REAL DEATH PANELS working right in their own buildings deciding who is treated and who is not: who lives and dies. And they want approval to push their pay-outs to only 80%.
I
Illegal Smile
Guest
We have the liberals here openly saying that profit is bad and socialized medicine is good. If only we could get the liberals in Washington to be as open and honest, this would be quickly settled.
BigTitLvr
Well-Known Member
Faux News tactic 101- "bring out the 'S' word". Capitalism is good for nearly all industry, but not health care because: Human life is more valuable than profits.
You mistake me: I am not a liberal or socialist. I am a conservative. But you have been brainwashed to believe a conservative is only a republican. This is typical of Neo-Cons: if you don't like the implications- simply change the definition of a word!
Conservative believe in small government. But certainly part of the role of government is to regulate industries which would infringe on the rights of its citizens- like health insurance company death panels.
It NOT out of the sync with conservatives to request that Doctors provide the heath care, and a government office is the record keeper; their ONLY role - in a truly conservative government.
doc111
Well-Known Member
I have a few points which I would like to address about your post.
1.) I am not a CEO but I do own my own business. I personally don't "support" the system as it currently is. It has many flaws which I believe need to be fixed. At the same time I don't really understand all this disdain for CEO's or people of wealth. Our system was supposed to be one where anybody who worked hard could become wealthy. Now we are demonizing these people whom have, for the most part, worked hard to get where they are (You don't usually get to be CEO by being a slouch).
2.) I believe the current system is failing the common man. Many see the "evil corporations" as the problem. Many see the govt. as the problem. I think the truth lies somewhere in between. I tend to believe that the govt. is more of a problem than the corporations. Corporations are doing what it is they do: make as much profit for their shareholders and employees as they possibly can. Govt. should be seeing to it that the corportations aren't doing bad shit. Unfortunately we see corruption and greed running rampant on Wall Street and Washington D.C. If we could eliminate lobbyists and special interest groups in Washington, I believe it would go a long way to putting the reigns of govt. back in the hands of the people where they belong instead of in the hands of corrupt politicians and special interest. Of course none of this is going to happen because there is too much money to be made by making govt. as large and oppressive as possible until we are essentially slaves.
BigTitLvr
Well-Known Member
See my last response directly before your post.I have a few points which I would like to address about your post.
1.) I am not a CEO but I do own my own business. I personally don't "support" the system as it currently is. It has many flaws which I believe need to be fixed. At the same time I don't really understand all this disdain for CEO's or people of wealth. Our system was supposed to be one where anybody who worked hard could become wealthy. Now we are demonizing these people whom have, for the most part, worked hard to get where they are (You don't usually get to be CEO by being a slouch).
2.) I believe the current system is failing the common man. Many see the "evil corporations" as the problem. Many see the govt. as the problem. I think the truth lies somewhere in between. I tend to believe that the govt. is more of a problem than the corporations. Corporations are doing what it is they do: make as much profit for their shareholders and employees as they possibly can. Govt. should be seeing to it that the corportations aren't doing bad shit. Unfortunately we see corruption and greed running rampant on Wall Street and Washington D.C. If we could eliminate lobbyists and special interest groups in Washington, I believe it would go a long way to putting the reigns of govt. back in the hands of the people where they belong instead of in the hands of corrupt politicians and special interest. Of course none of this is going to happen because there is too much money to be made by making govt. as large and oppressive as possible until we are essentially slaves.
doc111
Well-Known Member
How does healthcare reform affect special interest? It doesn't. That's the fucking problem right there! Obamacare isn't going to do much except grow govt. so large................I don't even like to think about it.
