20 Ways ObamaCare Will Take Away Our Freedoms

CrackerJax

New Member
Read on and find out some of the unbelievably idioitic things which are in the health welfare bill.... get your wallets out.... your costs are only going ONE way.... up.


20 Ways ObamaCare Will Take Away Our Freedoms

By David Hogberg Posted 03/25/2010 05:37 PM ET


If some reports are to be believed, the Democrats will pass the Senate health care bill with some reconciliation changes later today. Thus, it is worthwhile to take a comprehensive look at the freedoms we will lose.
Of course, the bill is supposed to provide us with security. But it will result in skyrocketing insurance costs and physicians leaving the field in droves, making it harder to afford and find medical care. We may be about to live Benjamin Franklin's adage, "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."
The sections described below are taken from HR 3590 as agreed to by the Senate and from the reconciliation bill as displayed by the Rules Committee.
1. You are young and don't want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the "privilege." (Section 1501)
2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You'll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor. That's because insurance companies will no longer be able to underwrite on the basis of a person's health status. (Section 2701).
3. You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer such policies, even if that is what customers prefer. (Section 2711).
4. Think you'd like a policy that is cheaper because it doesn't cover preventive care or requires cost-sharing for such care? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer them with cost-sharing, even if that's what the customer wants. (Section 2712).
5. You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn't allow your employees' slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough. (Section 2714).
6. You must buy a policy that covers ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.
You're a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric services. You're a woman who can't have children? Tough, your policy must cover maternity services. You're a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.) (Section 1302).
7. Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best you can do is a "Bronze plan," which has benefits that provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough. (Section 1302 (d)(1)(A))
8. You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you'd like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families? Tough. (Section 1302 (c) (2) (A).
9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 50 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513).
10. You are an employer who offers health flexible spending arrangements and your employees want to deduct more than $2,500 from their salaries for it? Sorry, can't do that. (Section 9005 (i)).
11. If you are a physician and you don't want the government looking over your shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use, provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be just for informational purposes. It's not like the government will ever use it to intervene in your practice and patients' care. Of course not. (Section 3003 (i))
12. If you are a physician and you want to own your own hospital, you must be an owner and have a "Medicare provider agreement" by Feb. 1, 2010. (Dec. 31, 2010 in the reconciliation changes.) If you didn't have those by then, you are out of luck. (Section 6001 (i) (1) (A)).
13. If you are a physician owner and you want to expand your hospital? Well, you can't (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B). Unless, it is located in a county where, over the last five years, population growth has been 150% of what it has been in the state (Section 6601 (i) (3) ( E)). And then you cannot increase your capacity by more than 200% (Section 6001 (i) (3) (C)).
14. You are a health insurer and you want to raise premiums to meet costs? Well, if that increase is deemed "unreasonable" by the Secretary of Health and Human Services it will be subject to review and can be denied. (Section 1003)
15. The government will extract a fee of $2.3 billion annually from the pharmaceutical industry. If you are a pharmaceutical company what you will pay depends on the ratio of the number of brand-name drugs you sell to the total number of brand-name drugs sold in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the brand-name drugs in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2.3 billion, or $230,000,000. (Under reconciliation, it starts at $2.55 billion, jumps to $3 billion in 2012, then to $3.5 billion in 2017 and $4.2 billion in 2018, before settling at $2.8 billion in 2019 (Section 1404)). Think you, as a pharmaceutical executive, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 9008 (b)).

16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the medical devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2 billion, or $200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for R&D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)).
The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405).
17. The government will extract a fee of $6.7 billion annually from insurance companies. If you are an insurer, what you will pay depends on your share of net premiums plus 200% of your administrative costs. So, if your net premiums and administrative costs are equal to 10% of the total, you will pay 10% of $6.7 billion, or $670,000,000. In the reconciliation bill, the fee will start at $8 billion in 2014, $11.3 billion in 2015, $1.9 billion in 2017, and $14.3 billion in 2018 (Section 1406).Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better spend that money? Tough.(Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and B).)
18. If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough.(Section 9014).
19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9015).
That amount will rise to a 3.8% tax if reconciliation passes. It will also apply to investment income, estates, and trusts. You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Like you need to ask. (Section 1402).
20. If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure. Think you know how to spend that money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9017).
 

Man o' the green

Active Member
The specifics are quite interesting, I had not heard all of them before, only some, and you can be sure there are many missing, such as the tacked-on student loan takeover.

The following is a comment on freedom in general, but applies to the healthcare issue as well. ( probably more so with HC, due to the size and scope of the power grab )

Every tax levied and regulation is an assault on one's freedom to choose what to do with their earned property, and there are a lot of these, both now and necessarily coming in the near future
The loss of freedoms for all ( some explained above ) is for the purpose of creating new "rights" for some.
The inequality of taxation and distribution. The rich don't have as many freedoms as the poor. And it only gets worse over time. They may have more wealth, but it is useless without freedom. This simply divides us into groups once again, trampling on our right of equal protection. Perpetuating the "us" and "them" mentality which plays so well to the masses by the political parties. ( particularly progressives ) The more money you make, the less freedom you have.
And the worst part, the further enslavement of the taxpayer that the majority does not want, and the enslavement of those who take the entitlement. Both sides loose freedom.

The constitution be damned,

One can only maintain their inalienable rights through freedom. Rights 'given' by taking away freedom is slavery.
 

medicineman

New Member
I think the 20 negatives are probably a bit biased. I'm not going to do the research to prove them wrong, but, They are surely observed from the far rights perspective. The health care bill is certainly far from perfect, and I myself really don't care for many items in the bill. It is basically a giveaway to the insurance industry, with 30-45 million new customers. Let's see if by the time the Bill is fully implemented it hasn't been stripped of the good points, like no refusal of treatment for pre-existing conditions. no cap on spending for illnesses, etc. I'm betting that before it is law, all those on the right will have stripped all the benefits for patients right out of the bill and the insurance companies will get windfall profits. Anyone want to bet??? Buy stock in medical insurance now, if you can afford it, most can't.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Of course you won't do the research.... by the way....exactly where the sp[ecific language is located is right in front of you.

Too hard? :lol:



Yes, these are only SOME of them..... and as I have said before....now tons of folks who don't NEED insurance...will be forced to pay for it.... like college students.... which is a bit rich...since they fell for this charade the hardest.... not unexpected since they have zero experience in such adult matters, and believe anything which is presented shiny and new looking.
 

medicineman

New Member
Of course you won't do the research.... by the way....exactly where the sp[ecific language is located is right in front of you.

Too hard? :lol:



Yes, these are only SOME of them..... and as I have said before....now tons of folks who don't NEED insurance...will be forced to pay for it.... like college students.... which is a bit rich...since they fell for this charade the hardest.... not unexpected since they have zero experience in such adult matters, and believe anything which is presented shiny and new looking.
Yeah, you forget, you are way smarter than me, at least you think so. You are of the mind that money makes the person, the more one has, the smarter and better they are. This is not the only way to judge people, and unfortunately you have not the wisdom to percieve this. By me not wanting to refute your premis line by line, you have judged me incompetent. Well then, your opinion is duly noted, now go fuck yourself.
 

medicineman

New Member
Of course you won't do the research.... by the way....exactly where the sp[ecific language is located is right in front of you.

Too hard? :lol:



Yes, these are only SOME of them..... and as I have said before....now tons of folks who don't NEED insurance...will be forced to pay for it.... like college students.... which is a bit rich...since they fell for this charade the hardest.... not unexpected since they have zero experience in such adult matters, and believe anything which is presented shiny and new looking.
Yeah, you forget, you are way smarter than me, at least you think so. You are of the mind that money makes the person, the more one has, the smarter and better they are. This is not the only way to judge people, and unfortunately you have not the wisdom to percieve this. By me not wanting to refute your premis line by line, you have judged me incompetent. Well then, your opinion is duly noted.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
It's right in front of you.... how much simpler do you need it to be?

Seriously.... I think I found your problem...at least one of them.

Make an effort....you'd be surprised at the difference it makes in your life.
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
It's right in front of you.... how much simpler do you need it to be?

Seriously.... I think I found your problem...at least one of them.

Make an effort....you'd be surprised at the difference it makes in your life.

How does it make you feel that you spend day and night advocating against the sick and dying? A real piece of work you are.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
How's it feel to be completely misinformed about health welfare.... the rising of costs and lowering of quality.

All will happen.... a real piece of work you are.

And that post is 100% accurate ... which is why you don't address it directly.... which means you DON'T CARE
 

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
How's it feel to be completely misinformed about health welfare.... the rising of costs and lowering of quality.

All will happen.... a real piece of work you are.

And that post is 100% accurate ... which is why you don't address it directly.... which means you DON'T CARE

Because I refuse to get into a debate with someone who believes 35 years is a fair sentence for possessing 4 ounces of weed. You are irrelevant.
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't debate those 20 points with CJ either. The debate is pointless. My experience debating these issues has been unrewarding. Typically, the logic, relevance and/or validity of each point would be debated to the point of personal opinion. And after that, it becomes a war of insults.
 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
Twenty points with an extreme right wing spin given for effect. What a piece of journalistic genius. My response for most of them. Thats one way of looking at it. But it makes you look like a whining right wing faggot.
 

dukeofbaja

New Member
...And that post is 100% accurate ...
....says the man who claimed 100% accuracy after I refuted a study he posted claiming that 45% of doctors would quit or retire if health care reform passed, and has refused to cite the other studies he claimed backed up the original. Where are those other studies? You claim they exist, burden of proof is you to produce them.

No need though. Time will tell that you are FULL OF SHIT on that claim, as well as a myriad of others. It is your fault for posting this shit before you look into the methodology behind it.

I will get to a 20 point refutation/counter-spinning when I am more coherent.
 

purplekitty7772008

Well-Known Member
Here is a list of all the representatives and congressmen/women who voted your freedoms away.


Democrats Voting 'Aye'

Rep. Gary Ackerman [D, NY-5]
Rep. Robert Andrews [D, NJ-1]
Rep. Joe Baca [D, CA-43]
Rep. Brian Baird [D, WA-3]
Rep. Tammy Baldwin [D, WI-2]
Rep. Melissa Bean [D, IL-8]
Rep. Xavier Becerra [D, CA-31]
Rep. Shelley Berkley [D, NV-1]
Rep. Howard Berman [D, CA-28]
Rep. Sanford Bishop [D, GA-2]
Rep. Timothy Bishop [D, NY-1]
Rep. Earl Blumenauer [D, OR-3]
Rep. John Boccieri [D, OH-16]
Rep. Leonard Boswell [D, IA-3]
Rep. Allen Boyd [D, FL-2]
Rep. Robert Brady [D, PA-1]
Rep. Bruce Braley [D, IA-1]
Rep. Corrine Brown [D, FL-3]
Rep. George Butterfield [D, NC-1]
Rep. Lois Capps [D, CA-23]
Rep. Michael Capuano [D, MA-8]
Rep. Dennis Cardoza [D, CA-18]
Rep. Russ Carnahan [D, MO-3]
Rep. Christopher Carney [D, PA-10]
Rep. André Carson [D, IN-7]
Rep. Kathy Castor [D, FL-11]
Rep. Judy Chu [D, CA-32]
Rep. Yvette Clarke [D, NY-11]
Rep. William Clay [D, MO-1]
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver [D, MO-5]
Rep. James Clyburn [D, SC-6]
Rep. Steve Cohen [D, TN-9]
Rep. Gerald Connolly [D, VA-11]
Rep. John Conyers [D, MI-14]
Rep. Jim Cooper [D, TN-5]
Rep. Jim Costa [D, CA-20]
Rep. Jerry Costello [D, IL-12]
Rep. Joe Courtney [D, CT-2]
Rep. Joseph Crowley [D, NY-7]
Rep. Henry Cuellar [D, TX-28]
Rep. Elijah Cummings [D, MD-7]
Rep. Kathleen Dahlkemper [D, PA-3]
Rep. Danny Davis [D, IL-7]
Rep. Susan Davis [D, CA-53]
Rep. Peter DeFazio [D, OR-4]
Rep. Diana DeGette [D, CO-1]
Rep. William Delahunt [D, MA-10]
Rep. Rosa DeLauro [D, CT-3]
Rep. Norman Dicks [D, WA-6]
Rep. John Dingell [D, MI-15]
Rep. Lloyd Doggett [D, TX-25]
Rep. Joe Donnelly [D, IN-2]
Rep. Michael Doyle [D, PA-14]
Rep. Steve Driehaus [D, OH-1]
Rep. Donna Edwards [D, MD-4]
Rep. Keith Ellison [D, MN-5]
Rep. Brad Ellsworth [D, IN-8]
Rep. Eliot Engel [D, NY-17]
Rep. Anna Eshoo [D, CA-14]
Rep. Bob Etheridge [D, NC-2]
Rep. Sam Farr [D, CA-17]
Rep. Chaka Fattah [D, PA-2]
Rep. Bob Filner [D, CA-51]
Rep. Bill Foster [D, IL-14]
Rep. Barney Frank [D, MA-4]
Rep. Marcia Fudge [D, OH-11]
Rep. John Garamendi [D, CA-10]
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords [D, AZ-8]
Rep. Charles Gonzalez [D, TX-20]
Rep. Barton Gordon [D, TN-6]
Rep. Alan Grayson [D, FL-8]
Rep. Raymond Green [D, TX-29]
Rep. Al Green [D, TX-9]
Rep. Raul Grijalva [D, AZ-7]
Rep. Luis Gutiérrez [D, IL-4]
Rep. John Hall [D, NY-19]
Rep. Deborah Halvorson [D, IL-11]
Rep. Phil Hare [D, IL-17]
Rep. Jane Harman [D, CA-36]
Rep. Alcee Hastings [D, FL-23]
Rep. Martin Heinrich [D, NM-1]
Rep. Brian Higgins [D, NY-27]
Rep. Baron Hill [D, IN-9]
Rep. James Himes [D, CT-4]
Rep. Maurice Hinchey [D, NY-22]
Rep. Rubén Hinojosa [D, TX-15]
Rep. Mazie Hirono [D, HI-2]
Rep. Paul Hodes [D, NH-2]
Rep. Rush Holt [D, NJ-12]
Rep. Michael Honda [D, CA-15]
Rep. Steny Hoyer [D, MD-5]
Rep. Jay Inslee [D, WA-1]
Rep. Steve Israel [D, NY-2]
Rep. Jesse Jackson [D, IL-2]
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee [D, TX-18]
Rep. Henry Johnson [D, GA-4]
Rep. Eddie Johnson [D, TX-30]
Rep. Steve Kagen [D, WI-8]
Rep. Paul Kanjorski [D, PA-11]
Rep. Marcy Kaptur [D, OH-9]
Rep. Patrick Kennedy [D, RI-1]
Rep. Dale Kildee [D, MI-5]
Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick [D, MI-13]
Rep. Mary Jo Kilroy [D, OH-15]
Rep. Ronald Kind [D, WI-3]
Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick [D, AZ-1]
Rep. Ron Klein [D, FL-22]
Rep. Suzanne Kosmas [D, FL-24]
Rep. Dennis Kucinich [D, OH-10]
Rep. James Langevin [D, RI-2]
Rep. Rick Larsen [D, WA-2]
Rep. John Larson [D, CT-1]
Rep. Barbara Lee [D, CA-9]
Rep. Sander Levin [D, MI-12]
Rep. John Lewis [D, GA-5]
Rep. David Loebsack [D, IA-2]
Rep. Zoe Lofgren [D, CA-16]
Rep. Nita Lowey [D, NY-18]
Rep. Ben Luján [D, NM-3]
Rep. Daniel Maffei [D, NY-25]
Rep. Carolyn Maloney [D, NY-14]
Rep. Betsy Markey [D, CO-4]
Rep. Edward Markey [D, MA-7]
Rep. Doris Matsui [D, CA-5]
Rep. Carolyn McCarthy [D, NY-4]
Rep. Betty McCollum [D, MN-4]
Rep. James McDermott [D, WA-7]
Rep. James McGovern [D, MA-3]
Rep. Jerry McNerney [D, CA-11]
Rep. Kendrick Meek [D, FL-17]
Rep. Gregory Meeks [D, NY-6]
Rep. Michael Michaud [D, ME-2]
Rep. Bradley Miller [D, NC-13]
Rep. George Miller [D, CA-7]
Rep. Harry Mitchell [D, AZ-5]
Rep. Alan Mollohan [D, WV-1]
Rep. Gwen Moore [D, WI-4]
Rep. Dennis Moore [D, KS-3]
Rep. James Moran [D, VA-8]
Rep. Patrick Murphy [D, PA-8]
Rep. Scott Murphy [D, NY-20]
Rep. Christopher Murphy [D, CT-5]
Rep. Jerrold Nadler [D, NY-8]
Rep. Grace Napolitano [D, CA-38]
Rep. Richard Neal [D, MA-2]
Rep. James Oberstar [D, MN-8]
Rep. David Obey [D, WI-7]
Rep. John Olver [D, MA-1]
Rep. Solomon Ortiz [D, TX-27]
Rep. William Owens [D, NY-23]
Rep. Frank Pallone [D, NJ-6]
Rep. William Pascrell [D, NJ-8]
Rep. Edward Pastor [D, AZ-4]
Rep. Donald Payne [D, NJ-10]
Rep. Nancy Pelosi [D, CA-8]
Rep. Ed Perlmutter [D, CO-7]
Rep. Thomas Perriello [D, VA-5]
Rep. Gary Peters [D, MI-9]
Rep. Chellie Pingree [D, ME-1]
Rep. Jared Polis [D, CO-2]
Rep. Earl Pomeroy [D, ND-0]
Rep. David Price [D, NC-4]
Rep. Mike Quigley [D, IL-5]
Rep. Nick Rahall [D, WV-3]
Rep. Charles Rangel [D, NY-15]
Rep. Silvestre Reyes [D, TX-16]
Rep. Laura Richardson [D, CA-37]
Rep. Ciro Rodriguez [D, TX-23]
Rep. Steven Rothman [D, NJ-9]
Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard [D, CA-34]
Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger [D, MD-2]
Rep. Bobby Rush [D, IL-1]
Rep. Timothy Ryan [D, OH-17]
Rep. John Salazar [D, CO-3]
Rep. Loretta Sanchez [D, CA-47]
Rep. Linda Sánchez [D, CA-39]
Rep. John Sarbanes [D, MD-3]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D, IL-9]
Rep. Mark Schauer [D, MI-7]
Rep. Adam Schiff [D, CA-29]
Rep. Kurt Schrader [D, OR-5]
Rep. Allyson Schwartz [D, PA-13]
Rep. Robert Scott [D, VA-3]
Rep. David Scott [D, GA-13]
Rep. José Serrano [D, NY-16]
Rep. Joe Sestak [D, PA-7]
Rep. Carol Shea-Porter [D, NH-1]
Rep. Brad Sherman [D, CA-27]
Rep. Albio Sires [D, NJ-13]
Rep. Louise Slaughter [D, NY-28]
Rep. Adam Smith [D, WA-9]
Rep. Victor Snyder [D, AR-2]
Rep. Jackie Speier [D, CA-12]
Rep. John Spratt [D, SC-5]
Rep. Fortney Stark [D, CA-13]
Rep. Bart Stupak [D, MI-1]
Rep. Betty Sutton [D, OH-13]
Rep. Michael Thompson [D, CA-1]
Rep. Bennie Thompson [D, MS-2]
Rep. John Tierney [D, MA-6]
Rep. Dina Titus [D, NV-3]
Rep. Paul Tonko [D, NY-21]
Rep. Edolphus Towns [D, NY-10]
Rep. Niki Tsongas [D, MA-5]
Rep. Christopher Van Hollen [D, MD-8]
Rep. Nydia Velázquez [D, NY-12]
Rep. Peter Visclosky [D, IN-1]
Rep. Timothy Walz [D, MN-1]
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D, FL-20]
Rep. Maxine Waters [D, CA-35]
Rep. Diane Watson [D, CA-33]
Rep. Melvin Watt [D, NC-12]
Rep. Henry Waxman [D, CA-30]
Rep. Anthony Weiner [D, NY-9]
Rep. Peter Welch [D, VT-0]
Rep. Charles Wilson [D, OH-6]
Rep. Lynn Woolsey [D, CA-6]
Rep. David Wu [D, OR-1]
Rep. John Yarmuth [D, KY-3]


If any of these people are in your district, wherever you are, go to a town hall
meeting and let them have an earful!!!
 

Dragline

Well-Known Member
Here is a list of all the representatives and congressmen/women who voted your freedoms away.


Democrats Voting 'Aye'


If any of these people are in your district, wherever you are, go to a town hall meeting and let them have an earful!!!
If I meet any of them I will thank them for not falling prey to the right wing lies and fear mongering. What "freedoms" did you lose anyway? Oh yeah, the one where you can not have health insurance so you can pass the costs of a possible medical emergency on to responsible Americans who plan for such possibilities. Which by the way you can thank REPUBLICANS for the idea as it was apparently not unconstitutional when Republicans introduced it in the 90's nor does Mitt Romney and Scott Brown when they both supported it for the state of Massachusetts.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Wow ....A whole thread with pretty much everyone disagreeing with Cracker...Why does he tell me I'm the only one...??? Poor guy ...Hey Cracker do you suffer delusional disorder ????you showing all the signs..

1. Thinks Londonfog is other people on RIU

2. Thinks Obama is out to get him.

3.Wants to be President so he can fly to the moon to get moon dust.

Dude WTF you growing... puff puff pass not puff puff keep....no your limit...:bigjoint:
 

akgrown

Well-Known Member
Most people maybe dont realize this but this bill does not really go into affect until april 2014 or something and by that time we will have a new president unless Obama does something to get re-elected which hopefully wont happen. When we do get a new president providing it is someone against halth care the big ol VETO stamp will come out and boom no more health care. Ok I know its not gonna happen exactly like that but I have high hopes that it does
 

abe23

Active Member
Most people maybe dont realize this but this bill does not really go into affect until april 2014 or something and by that time we will have a new president unless Obama does something to get re-elected which hopefully wont happen. When we do get a new president providing it is someone against halth care the big ol VETO stamp will come out and boom no more health care. Ok I know its not gonna happen exactly like that but I have high hopes that it does
Word. Then all those whiney little cancer kids and their deadbeat parents can go suck a fat one. I'm not paying for your chemo, bitches! Go die somewhere else. :finger:
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
of course CJ completely forgets to admit that ALL businesses in the US will begin to receive tax credits for offering Health Care to their employees.

basically, small businesses can choose not to offer health care, and pay 750 dollars in fines. or they can incur a higher expense to provide health care, which are going to be offset come tax season..... many MANY MANYY small businesses will be able to offer health care with almost 100% in federal tax credits for their expenses.

large employers will also receive tax credits for offering health care to their employees. most of them do already, it's sort of mainstream in the US to offer health care as a benefit if you're a respectble employer, so all this does is make them eligible for tax credits.... booo hooooooooooo.....


hmmm.... i guess it's true, it's all in the details.....
 

CrackerJax

New Member
I wouldn't debate those 20 points with CJ either. The debate is pointless. My experience debating these issues has been unrewarding. Typically, the logic, relevance and/or validity of each point would be debated to the point of personal opinion. And after that, it becomes a war of insults.
There is nothing to debate.... those are the facts....and only some of them..... it gets worse...much worse.

Here is a list of all the representatives and congressmen/women who voted your freedoms away.


Democrats Voting 'Aye'

Rep. Gary Ackerman [D, NY-5]
Rep. Robert Andrews [D, NJ-1]
Rep. Joe Baca [D, CA-43]
Rep. Brian Baird [D, WA-3]
Rep. Tammy Baldwin [D, WI-2]
Rep. Melissa Bean [D, IL-8]
Rep. Xavier Becerra [D, CA-31]
Rep. Shelley Berkley [D, NV-1]
Rep. Howard Berman [D, CA-28]
Rep. Sanford Bishop [D, GA-2]
Rep. Timothy Bishop [D, NY-1]
Rep. Earl Blumenauer [D, OR-3]
Rep. John Boccieri [D, OH-16]
Rep. Leonard Boswell [D, IA-3]
Rep. Allen Boyd [D, FL-2]
Rep. Robert Brady [D, PA-1]
Rep. Bruce Braley [D, IA-1]
Rep. Corrine Brown [D, FL-3]
Rep. George Butterfield [D, NC-1]
Rep. Lois Capps [D, CA-23]
Rep. Michael Capuano [D, MA-8]
Rep. Dennis Cardoza [D, CA-18]
Rep. Russ Carnahan [D, MO-3]
Rep. Christopher Carney [D, PA-10]
Rep. André Carson [D, IN-7]
Rep. Kathy Castor [D, FL-11]
Rep. Judy Chu [D, CA-32]
Rep. Yvette Clarke [D, NY-11]
Rep. William Clay [D, MO-1]
Rep. Emanuel Cleaver [D, MO-5]
Rep. James Clyburn [D, SC-6]
Rep. Steve Cohen [D, TN-9]
Rep. Gerald Connolly [D, VA-11]
Rep. John Conyers [D, MI-14]
Rep. Jim Cooper [D, TN-5]
Rep. Jim Costa [D, CA-20]
Rep. Jerry Costello [D, IL-12]
Rep. Joe Courtney [D, CT-2]
Rep. Joseph Crowley [D, NY-7]
Rep. Henry Cuellar [D, TX-28]
Rep. Elijah Cummings [D, MD-7]
Rep. Kathleen Dahlkemper [D, PA-3]
Rep. Danny Davis [D, IL-7]
Rep. Susan Davis [D, CA-53]
Rep. Peter DeFazio [D, OR-4]
Rep. Diana DeGette [D, CO-1]
Rep. William Delahunt [D, MA-10]
Rep. Rosa DeLauro [D, CT-3]
Rep. Norman Dicks [D, WA-6]
Rep. John Dingell [D, MI-15]
Rep. Lloyd Doggett [D, TX-25]
Rep. Joe Donnelly [D, IN-2]
Rep. Michael Doyle [D, PA-14]
Rep. Steve Driehaus [D, OH-1]
Rep. Donna Edwards [D, MD-4]
Rep. Keith Ellison [D, MN-5]
Rep. Brad Ellsworth [D, IN-8]
Rep. Eliot Engel [D, NY-17]
Rep. Anna Eshoo [D, CA-14]
Rep. Bob Etheridge [D, NC-2]
Rep. Sam Farr [D, CA-17]
Rep. Chaka Fattah [D, PA-2]
Rep. Bob Filner [D, CA-51]
Rep. Bill Foster [D, IL-14]
Rep. Barney Frank [D, MA-4]
Rep. Marcia Fudge [D, OH-11]
Rep. John Garamendi [D, CA-10]
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords [D, AZ-8]
Rep. Charles Gonzalez [D, TX-20]
Rep. Barton Gordon [D, TN-6]
Rep. Alan Grayson [D, FL-8]
Rep. Raymond Green [D, TX-29]
Rep. Al Green [D, TX-9]
Rep. Raul Grijalva [D, AZ-7]
Rep. Luis Gutiérrez [D, IL-4]
Rep. John Hall [D, NY-19]
Rep. Deborah Halvorson [D, IL-11]
Rep. Phil Hare [D, IL-17]
Rep. Jane Harman [D, CA-36]
Rep. Alcee Hastings [D, FL-23]
Rep. Martin Heinrich [D, NM-1]
Rep. Brian Higgins [D, NY-27]
Rep. Baron Hill [D, IN-9]
Rep. James Himes [D, CT-4]
Rep. Maurice Hinchey [D, NY-22]
Rep. Rubén Hinojosa [D, TX-15]
Rep. Mazie Hirono [D, HI-2]
Rep. Paul Hodes [D, NH-2]
Rep. Rush Holt [D, NJ-12]
Rep. Michael Honda [D, CA-15]
Rep. Steny Hoyer [D, MD-5]
Rep. Jay Inslee [D, WA-1]
Rep. Steve Israel [D, NY-2]
Rep. Jesse Jackson [D, IL-2]
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee [D, TX-18]
Rep. Henry Johnson [D, GA-4]
Rep. Eddie Johnson [D, TX-30]
Rep. Steve Kagen [D, WI-8]
Rep. Paul Kanjorski [D, PA-11]
Rep. Marcy Kaptur [D, OH-9]
Rep. Patrick Kennedy [D, RI-1]
Rep. Dale Kildee [D, MI-5]
Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick [D, MI-13]
Rep. Mary Jo Kilroy [D, OH-15]
Rep. Ronald Kind [D, WI-3]
Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick [D, AZ-1]
Rep. Ron Klein [D, FL-22]
Rep. Suzanne Kosmas [D, FL-24]
Rep. Dennis Kucinich [D, OH-10]
Rep. James Langevin [D, RI-2]
Rep. Rick Larsen [D, WA-2]
Rep. John Larson [D, CT-1]
Rep. Barbara Lee [D, CA-9]
Rep. Sander Levin [D, MI-12]
Rep. John Lewis [D, GA-5]
Rep. David Loebsack [D, IA-2]
Rep. Zoe Lofgren [D, CA-16]
Rep. Nita Lowey [D, NY-18]
Rep. Ben Luján [D, NM-3]
Rep. Daniel Maffei [D, NY-25]
Rep. Carolyn Maloney [D, NY-14]
Rep. Betsy Markey [D, CO-4]
Rep. Edward Markey [D, MA-7]
Rep. Doris Matsui [D, CA-5]
Rep. Carolyn McCarthy [D, NY-4]
Rep. Betty McCollum [D, MN-4]
Rep. James McDermott [D, WA-7]
Rep. James McGovern [D, MA-3]
Rep. Jerry McNerney [D, CA-11]
Rep. Kendrick Meek [D, FL-17]
Rep. Gregory Meeks [D, NY-6]
Rep. Michael Michaud [D, ME-2]
Rep. Bradley Miller [D, NC-13]
Rep. George Miller [D, CA-7]
Rep. Harry Mitchell [D, AZ-5]
Rep. Alan Mollohan [D, WV-1]
Rep. Gwen Moore [D, WI-4]
Rep. Dennis Moore [D, KS-3]
Rep. James Moran [D, VA-8]
Rep. Patrick Murphy [D, PA-8]
Rep. Scott Murphy [D, NY-20]
Rep. Christopher Murphy [D, CT-5]
Rep. Jerrold Nadler [D, NY-8]
Rep. Grace Napolitano [D, CA-38]
Rep. Richard Neal [D, MA-2]
Rep. James Oberstar [D, MN-8]
Rep. David Obey [D, WI-7]
Rep. John Olver [D, MA-1]
Rep. Solomon Ortiz [D, TX-27]
Rep. William Owens [D, NY-23]
Rep. Frank Pallone [D, NJ-6]
Rep. William Pascrell [D, NJ-8]
Rep. Edward Pastor [D, AZ-4]
Rep. Donald Payne [D, NJ-10]
Rep. Nancy Pelosi [D, CA-8]
Rep. Ed Perlmutter [D, CO-7]
Rep. Thomas Perriello [D, VA-5]
Rep. Gary Peters [D, MI-9]
Rep. Chellie Pingree [D, ME-1]
Rep. Jared Polis [D, CO-2]
Rep. Earl Pomeroy [D, ND-0]
Rep. David Price [D, NC-4]
Rep. Mike Quigley [D, IL-5]
Rep. Nick Rahall [D, WV-3]
Rep. Charles Rangel [D, NY-15]
Rep. Silvestre Reyes [D, TX-16]
Rep. Laura Richardson [D, CA-37]
Rep. Ciro Rodriguez [D, TX-23]
Rep. Steven Rothman [D, NJ-9]
Rep. Lucille Roybal-Allard [D, CA-34]
Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger [D, MD-2]
Rep. Bobby Rush [D, IL-1]
Rep. Timothy Ryan [D, OH-17]
Rep. John Salazar [D, CO-3]
Rep. Loretta Sanchez [D, CA-47]
Rep. Linda Sánchez [D, CA-39]
Rep. John Sarbanes [D, MD-3]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D, IL-9]
Rep. Mark Schauer [D, MI-7]
Rep. Adam Schiff [D, CA-29]
Rep. Kurt Schrader [D, OR-5]
Rep. Allyson Schwartz [D, PA-13]
Rep. Robert Scott [D, VA-3]
Rep. David Scott [D, GA-13]
Rep. José Serrano [D, NY-16]
Rep. Joe Sestak [D, PA-7]
Rep. Carol Shea-Porter [D, NH-1]
Rep. Brad Sherman [D, CA-27]
Rep. Albio Sires [D, NJ-13]
Rep. Louise Slaughter [D, NY-28]
Rep. Adam Smith [D, WA-9]
Rep. Victor Snyder [D, AR-2]
Rep. Jackie Speier [D, CA-12]
Rep. John Spratt [D, SC-5]
Rep. Fortney Stark [D, CA-13]
Rep. Bart Stupak [D, MI-1]
Rep. Betty Sutton [D, OH-13]
Rep. Michael Thompson [D, CA-1]
Rep. Bennie Thompson [D, MS-2]
Rep. John Tierney [D, MA-6]
Rep. Dina Titus [D, NV-3]
Rep. Paul Tonko [D, NY-21]
Rep. Edolphus Towns [D, NY-10]
Rep. Niki Tsongas [D, MA-5]
Rep. Christopher Van Hollen [D, MD-8]
Rep. Nydia Velázquez [D, NY-12]
Rep. Peter Visclosky [D, IN-1]
Rep. Timothy Walz [D, MN-1]
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D, FL-20]
Rep. Maxine Waters [D, CA-35]
Rep. Diane Watson [D, CA-33]
Rep. Melvin Watt [D, NC-12]
Rep. Henry Waxman [D, CA-30]
Rep. Anthony Weiner [D, NY-9]
Rep. Peter Welch [D, VT-0]
Rep. Charles Wilson [D, OH-6]
Rep. Lynn Woolsey [D, CA-6]
Rep. David Wu [D, OR-1]
Rep. John Yarmuth [D, KY-3]


If any of these people are in your district, wherever you are, go to a town hall
meeting and let them have an earful!!!
TY PK .... every one of these ppl should get voted out of office. Every one ....



Most people maybe dont realize this but this bill does not really go into affect until april 2014 or something and by that time we will have a new president unless Obama does something to get re-elected which hopefully wont happen. When we do get a new president providing it is someone against halth care the big ol VETO stamp will come out and boom no more health care. Ok I know its not gonna happen exactly like that but I have high hopes that it does
Yes, but we all get to PAY for 4 years FIRST!!!! Obama democracy? NOT!!

Destined to go down as the worst President ever..... now that is a legacy.
 
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