riddleme, darkdestruction420, FDD and other heavyweights on New. central, we got ???

[robert 14617]

my ADD doesn't allow me to read such long Q: or the ability to sit down and answer,.....Oh hey look a bunny , what was your Q?

 

[whiteflour]

are there little seed elves that go around and turn wild beans over?

how come mine sprout when i plant them upside down?


and now the insults fly at me. and people want my help.

Influence of Seed Orientation on Bean Seedling Emergence1

S. A. Bowers and C. W. Hayden2
Observation from an unrelated field bean experiment indicated that certain seed orientations might reduce emergence. Consequently, studies were initiated to determine if orientation variations occur in planting and if these variations influence emergence.
Orientation of bean seeds, dropped into both "V" and flat-bottom furrows, were classified and tabulated. In "V" furrows almost all orientations were possible; 36% assumed the "lay-flat" orientation. In the flat-bottom furrow 85% of the beans were in the "lay-flat" position. The influence of 11 different seed orientations on emergence was evaluated in greenhouse studies. With crusted soils seeds planted "hypocotyl end down" produced significantly less emerged seedlings (1% level) and a lower emergence rate. Orientation effects were observed to a lesser degree in noncrusted soils.
The adverse influence of "hypocotyl end down" orientations was attributed to seed rotation within the soil. For controlled plantings the "lay-flat" orientation is recommended due to both its high frequency of occurrence and high emergence.

Key Words: Soil crust • Seed rotation

1 Contribution from the Northwest Branch, Soil and Water Conservation Research Division, Agricultural Research Service, USDA; Idaho Agricultural Experiment Station cooperating. 2 Soil Scientist, Water Quality Management Laboratory, Durant, Oklahoma 74701 (formerly located at Snake River Conservation Research Center); and Agricultural Research Technician (Soils), Snake River Conservation Research Center, Kimberly, Idaho.
Received for publication March 8, 1972.

 

[whiteflour]

just wanted to chime in and also point out that i have never, ever EVER thought that seed orientation mattered at all. you must keep in mind it is a seed, and nature has evolved it in such a way that it is likely to root and grow when even sitting on TOP of the soil and stays moist (i.e. falling in moist moss, or in some moist mulch, etc). light and warmth tell the seed which way to orient itself, and i doubt the millions of years of evolution only got it to the point 'ok we got this down, our seeds will sprout.... so long as it land on THIS SIDE ONLY!!".

and whiteflour, this is like the 5th post by you that ive seen that was just flat out absurd and rude. do you EVER have anything nice to say? i mean, trust me, i have my arguments on this site just as anyone else (check out the sun water thread), but really, calm down and get high, your too tense.

You have to consider the seed is shaped like an Egg for a reason. If it was meant to stand on its head mother nature would have given it a kickstand.

EDIT:
Also light and warmth have no factor whatsoever in determining the direction of root growth. This is controlled entirely by gravity. This is known as the gravitopic effect and has been studied since the 18th century.

 

[Islander5000]

Now that the smoke has cleared....

Newbieharvester, awesome post. Riddle and Jaw, credit is due for the quality info.

 

[KlosetKing]

You have to consider the seed is shaped like an Egg for a reason. If it was meant to stand on its head mother nature would have given it a kickstand.

EDIT:
Also light and warmth have no factor whatsoever in determining the direction of root growth. This controlled entirely by gravity. This is know as the gravitopic effect and has been studied since the 18th century.

this may be true, but in my, albeit limited, experience, when i drop a seed in soil, it doesnt sit on end. in fact it would take effort and conscience thought to perform such a feat.

 

[whiteflour]

this may be true, but in my, albeit limited, experience, when i drop a seed in soil, it doesnt sit on end. in fact it would take effort and conscience thought to perform such a feat.

Had you read my article you would see that just digging a hole has a 15% margin of error, at the least. Considering people on this site quite often dirct others to sow seeds with the point down, it's probably more like a 85% chance of error. I just showed you why this was not recommended, and fully explained the reasoning behind it, as well I presented you with scientific facts and research. Your more than welcome to ignore those facts or research the topic in more detail yourself.

I'm simply offering advice based on my experience, and if you'd like to question it I can refer you to solid agricultural sources on the subject. Personally I'll take information from the USDA over half these shadetree gardeners anyday, and the best part is knowing my tax dollars paid for that expert knowledge.

 

[jawbrodt]

^Why doesn't somebody just germinate a couple seeds, observe which area of the shell that the grow tip first pokes through, then assume that positioning the seed with the grow tip downwards, then assume that it's the optimum way to plant it?


Problem solved.lol


(I haven't germed any in so long, that I can't remember anymore.lol)

 

[jawbrodt]

Now that the smoke has cleared....

Newbieharvester, awesome post. Riddle and Jaw, credit is due for the quality info.

Thank you for that pat on the back, much appreciated. I was rambling a little, but did try to include some of the things that I thought were important/useful to know, although there are many 'areas of growing' that can be done different ways, and still work great. Always use what works best for you, and use your own logic to sift through all the available info/options, then make your own decisions and apply them to your own setup.(especially with ferts/feeding, because there are many variables) Hmm...I'm feeling a little chatty tonight, maybe I'll go re-read my original, and see what else I can add.lol

 

[whiteflour]

^Why doesn't somebody just germinate a couple seeds, observe which area of the shell that the grow tip first pokes through, then assume that positioning the seed with the grow tip downwards, then assume that it's the optimum way to plant it?


Problem solved.lol


(I haven't germed any in so long, that I can't remember anymore.lol)

I've germinated hundreds of seeds and I am thoroughly convinced planting with the tip up is best. At least let them lay naturally or horizontal, but planting with the tip down is clearly wrong.

 

[EvolAlex]

Since newbies gone. Riddle and jaw did a great job answering the questions. But i honestly read through this whole thread hoping to get fdds views on the topics. No offense riddle and jaw. Fdd if its not a problem i think you should answer the questions and then sticky the thread. Better yet start a new thread and answer these quick questions and throw it on a sticky. If not its cool. I would chip in but i havnt even got my first harvest under my belt.i

 

[jawbrodt]

Since newbies gone. Riddle and jaw did a great job answering the questions. But i honestly read through this whole thread hoping to get fdds views on the topics. No offense riddle and jaw. Fdd if its not a problem i think you should answer the questions and then sticky the thread. Better yet start a new thread and answer these quick questions and throw it on a sticky. If not its cool. I would chip in but i havnt even got my first harvest under my belt.i

Anything specific you're looking to hear explained differently, more thoroughly, etc...or any of the questions that we focused on a different area than you were hoping for? I ate an addie earlier,(once every month or two) and my brain is on overdrive, a little twisted from some smoke,lol and ready to blab. It's alot easier with specifics, so let me know and I'll see what I can do. Even if I don't give ya the answers you were looking for, it should be entertaining, at the least.

 

[fdd2blk]

I've germinated hundreds of seeds and I am thoroughly convinced planting with the tip up is best. At least let them lay naturally or horizontal, but planting with the tip down is clearly wrong.

my tap root pokes out of the tips of my seeds. the tap root grows downward while the casing with the "head" in it grows upward. i would think if anything, you'd want the tip pointed down. not that i ever bother.



it's amazing all my seeds grow. i must get really lucky.

 

[KlosetKing]

Had you read my article you would see that just digging a hole has a 15% margin of error, at the least. Considering people on this site quite often dirct others to sow seeds with the point down, it's probably more like a 85% chance of error. I just showed you why this was not recommended, and fully explained the reasoning behind it, as well I presented you with scientific facts and research. Your more than welcome to ignore those facts or research the topic in more detail yourself.

I'm simply offering advice based on my experience, and if you'd like to question it I can refer you to solid agricultural sources on the subject. Personally I'll take information from the USDA over half these shadetree gardeners anyday, and the best part is knowing my tax dollars paid for that expert knowledge.

iam sorry if it sounded like i was saying your science is null, that was not my intent. what i was implying is that if i poke a whole with my finger in moist soil, drop a germinated seed in, it will almost guaranteed land on its side (maybe its just the shape of my finger making a consistant shape of hole?). i leave it at that. i have no intention of touching the seed longer than i need to, fiddling with it, propping it up or whatever, and i have never had a problem, with a seed of any sort (jalapeno, tomato, cannabis). again, not saying you don't have science to back your statement up, nor saying that i am ignoring it. just saying it sounds like its more thought than it really needs, and i have never had a seed that was successfully germinated not make it out of the soil (though i have had infections 'runt' them later on as seedlings, halting all growth for what seemed permanently).

 

[whiteflour]

my tap root pokes out of the tips of my seeds. the tap root grows downward while the casing with the "head" in it grows upward. i would think if anything, you'd want the tip pointed down. not that i ever bother.

Except the raticle does not grow down and the cotyledons do not grow up as you say. It must form the hypocotol arch first in order to break the soil. Either way around it root tip up or down this is going to happen, planting with tip down takes longer, and has a higher chance of failure. So yes apparently you've been lucky, or haven't realized how much more successful you could be.

 

[doc111]

Since newbies gone. Riddle and jaw did a great job answering the questions. But i honestly read through this whole thread hoping to get fdds views on the topics. No offense riddle and jaw. Fdd if its not a problem i think you should answer the questions and then sticky the thread. Better yet start a new thread and answer these quick questions and throw it on a sticky. If not its cool. I would chip in but i havnt even got my first harvest under my belt.i

Why do people keep saying that these types of threads should be stickied? There really isn't that much great info (no offense to the "experts") in this thread, just mostly bickering and arguing. Those types of threads don't usually get stickied. There are already several stickies dealing with often answered questions and how to grow marijuana geared toward the newbie. If every thread like this got stickied then the really good threads would go unnoticed. I'm no mod but I bet this thread doesn't get stickied.

 

[LadyKimi]

Why do people keep saying that these types of threads should be stickied? There really isn't that much great info (no offense to the "experts") in this thread, just mostly bickering and arguing. Those types of threads don't usually get stickied. There are already several stickies dealing with often answered questions and how to grow marijuana geared toward the newbie. If every thread like this got stickied then the really good threads would go unnoticed. I'm no mod but I bet this thread doesn't get stickied.

I agree, this is what I tried to explain to Newbie when he first went off... If the "experts" want to take the time to answer all of these Q's again thats awesome, but considering the fact that they have all been answered 1000 times I can see why it is not a priority to them...

I have actually found the seed argument quite informative! Being a total newbie I had just accepted the often proclaimed planting method. I'm not saying I woll change anything I do but I will research it....

kimi

 

[fdd2blk]

hint #2:

people who worry about which way is up on a seed have a loooooong way yet to go.











a sticky.


lololololololololol

 

[whiteflour]

Hint #2: People that think the world is flat will always be proven wrong.

 

[robert 14617]

With crusted soils seeds planted "hypocotyl end down" produced significantly less emerged seedlings (1% level) and a lower emergence rate. Orientation effects were observed to a lesser degree in noncrusted soils.

so 1% that would be 1 in 100 in crusted soil even less in loose soil we use in container gardening , i'm not going to lose any sleep over orientation

 

[fdd2blk]

Hint #2: People that think the world is flat will always be proven wrong.

i don't know how a 95% success rate is wrong, but i'll take it.


i have seeds starting right now. i took those pics last night. the tap root is point out of the tip of the seed and it is pointing down. it's in a jiffy plug with the side torn so i can observe it. shall i continue to take pics?