Voting Against Prop 19 means :

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vertise

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-..._b_735846.html

Prop 19 Would Help -- Not Hurt -- Medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana Patients[/URL]

Are they misinformed or deliberately lying? I don't know anymore.
A group of medical marijuana dispensaries organized as the California Cannabis Association has come out against Prop 19, California's "Tax and Regulate Cannabis" initiative to legalize marijuana.
The coalition claims that Prop 19's provisions giving local jurisdictions the power to regulate cannabis sales, including the right to choose whether to allow commercial or other outlets, would enable them to prohibit the sale of medical marijuana to patients, something that under California they currently can't do. In the words of Cascade Wellness Center head Amir Daliri, quoted in the Associated Press, "The people who would be most affected are the sick, the elderly - patients who cannot grow their own and cannot travel to pick up a prescription."

The claim is completely false. As attorney J. David Nick explained in a widely disseminated legal analysis exhorting people to get on board and support the initiative, section 2B of the Prop 19 text explicitly guards against that:
Section 2B presents the controlling and relevant purposes for understanding what Prop. 19 can and cannot do. This section EXPRESSLY excludes the reach of Prop. 19 from the CUA and MMP. Sections 2B (7 & :cool: specifically state that the purpose of this initiative is to give municipalities total and complete control over the commercial sales of marijuana "EXCEPT as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9."​
Even without that protection, Nick further explains, it would be virtually impossible for the courts to interpret Prop 19 as allowing cities or counties to gut the state medical marijuana law, because of the rules of statutory construction:
Although extrinsic materials (such as legislative committee memos or voter pamphlet arguments) may not be resorted to when the legislative language is clear, courts may never ignore the purpose of the legislation. Every interpretation a court gives a statute must be consistent with the purpose of the legislation. This is why statutes have long "preambles" which explicitly state the purposes of the legislation.​
Unfortunately, the press has largely given the group a pass. In the press mentions I could find of the story, LA Weekly, Capital Public Radio, KTVU and the aforementioned AP piece, campaign spokeswoman Dale Sky Jones is quoted making the opposite claim, that the initiative actually would clarify and improve protections for medical marijuana patients. But that important information appears toward the end of the articles, and the casual reader is left with the impression simply that different activists are saying different things, not necessarily knowing what to believe. I think the media professionals covering this should have taken the extra few moments needed to glance at the initiative text, or better yet spoken with a qualified attorney or legal analyst about it. They then could have verified that the campaign quotes were right and the opposition's wrong, and reflected that in their reporting.
Fortunately, only some medical marijuana people are so shortsighted as to oppose this historic and important measure. Harborside Health Center in Oakland, and the Berkeley Patients Group are among the top quality groups lending their support to Prop 19. But it's still worth asking, why are some other medical marijuana providers opposing it?
Famed Canadian Marc Emery, from his US prison cell offered the obvious explanation: money. I've been charitable about this in saying that there's a little more to it than that. The medical marijuana providers have by and large created a good and wholesome environment, bringing dollars in for sure, but providing high-quality, compassionate services for their clientele. They've risked a lot to do it -- Daliri's center is among those to suffer raids on their operations -- and they don't want to see the world they've brought into being fall into nothingness in the face of the hugely increased competition that legalization of marijuana for anyone will surely bring. I happen to think that legalization will bring more opportunities for everyone in the industry, including the current medical marijuana providers, but I could be wrong. Maybe they will be put out of business.
But that's not a reason to allow the continued mass law enforcement campaigns against marijuana users and sellers to continue -- more than 61,000 people were arrested for marijuana possession in California in 2009 alone. And these people were smart enough to start and maintain successful businesses, therefore they're smart enough to accurately understand the Prop 19 legislation, if they want to, so I say enough is enough. Whether they are doing it deliberately, or out of deliberate ignorance, they should stop spreading misinformation about Prop 19. Shame on the California Cannabis Association. And YES on PROP 19!
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
many lawyers, doctor's, even dispensaries, have stated that prop 215 will not be affected. It is illegal to prevent someone from receiving proper amounts of medication when given a doctors recommendation. The size of your garden will NOT be affected by the 25 foot minimum regulation. If your doctors recommends more you can grow more EVEN under prop 19. It has zero affect on medicinal marijuana.
YES! Although we cannot say for certain how 19 will play out on the ground, 215 and 420 are still valid, and anyone with 100 bucks can still get a rec. Unless you are a die-hard proponent of minimizing gov't & big biz, vote YES on 19. Cali communities have the right to decide if they want to encourage Cannabis or tax the shit out of it. Up here, nor cal, I'm not worried about it.
 

mrFancyPlants

Well-Known Member
Dude, is that spanglish? I have no idea what you're saying. You can't speak english yet you expect us to trust your understanding of the prop. Stop being a tool. Relax, and let the big fist of cannabusiness s-l-o-w-l-y slide out of your rectum.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
yeah yeah yeah, the fact of the matter is that most people already made thier decision whether to vote yes or no and trying to tell someone to change thier mind is like milking a dry cow.

But you sure do sound like a professional,and Harborside was against prop 19 when it first came out but the could not resist richard lees deep pockets either.They are already getting taxed for profits so if prop 19 passes all they got to do is put up a sign that says "welcome 21 and older".

Richard lee and any other million dollor supporter of prop 19 realy dont care about mj, all they're trying to do is sew up the industry to make even more millions of dollors by simply eliminating the compotition and getting the government on thier side with promises of huge tax revanue.At the same time they promise the average mj smoker 30 dollo oz in hope to get thier vote,but if a oz coast 30 dollors the 1.4billion dollor anual tax revanue promised to the govenment will never get reached. So someone is going to get bone in the ass,either the government with a huge downfall in preposed tax revanue(very unlikely) or the paying customer wich will still pay well over a 30 dollors an oz.Plus the fat-cats on capital hill have already preposed a 50 dollor per oz. tax if prop 19 passes.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
Dude, is that spanglish? I have no idea what you're saying. You can't speak english yet you expect us to trust your understanding of the prop. Stop being a tool. Relax, and let the big fist of cannabusiness s-l-o-w-l-y slide out of your rectum.

Damn, i guess the reason why you don't understand is cause you are infact to dumb to.
Oh so mister professional has to result to talking shit.
I had some respect for you tell you stated talking shit and say racest remarks.I mean dont people who cant speak perfect english have a right thier own opinion. Or do I have to be a white American educated man to have an opinion?
 

vertise

Well-Known Member
Lol now i see i thought he was talking about something with in page 13. Hard to tell without a quote. Maybe i jumped the gun, but his clown avatar gets my blood boiling. Sorry bout that.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
what I dont understand is why people get so offended and threatened just because someone is not going to vote in thier favor.I mean did you realy think that all and every person that smoke mj would rise united to legalize mj when the day came.Well sir some of us do have higher standers than others and my right to vote No is just that, mine.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
Lol now i see i thought he was talking about something with in page 13. Hard to tell without a quote. Maybe i jumped the gun, but his clown avatar gets my blood boiling. Sorry bout that.
Thank you .I will try and make myself more clear next time
 

vertise

Well-Known Member
was actually apologizing to the clown avatar because i thought he was talking to me. But what a kind response from a no voter to a yes voter. bravo. Vote yes.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
LOL you are funny. I had that idiot clow head ignored.Now I understand what happend.
Personaly I do think that prop 19 is going to pass but I just dont like it so we will see how it turns out.


More people will vote yes then there is living on earth.
 

The Ruiner

Well-Known Member
19=Obama.

Same hype, propaganda and misinformation, shit-tons of promises that already stand to be broken, and a lot of deflection and bullshit responses by attorneys that have a vested interest in the passage of 19 who admit in their "open letters" that MMJ patients will be forced (and taxed) to a 5x5 while trying to sell it as a good thing. And on top of it all, it opens the door for a bigger shit-ton of taxes on something that is already taxed, and wont even name dollar amounts because they know NOBODY would vote for it. That letter from that Nick-fucker is hilarious: he basically covers his own ass in the very intro so if 19 passes and is nothing like its being made out to be he can just sit back and say "look I said right here everything we are saying outside of the bill is meaningless and you are dumb for believing it." In fact, that guy goes so far as to say that not only can courts reject even the literal wording of the bill, they cannot consider literature from supporting organizations. SO EVERYTHING THAT ANYONE SAYS OUTSIDE THE BILL IS BULLSHIT AND DOES NOT MATTER!!! The courts must "remember the spirit" of the bill, which is to TAX and REGULATE cannabis. There are no exemptions for MMJ patient growers, you will be forced to a 5x5 unless you are part of a collective (which in the letter he considers as "inconvenient"). The only exemptions in the bill for MMJ patients is in regards to possession/consumption/purchasing.... not growing, and you definitely wont be safe from the taxes. Furthermore, In the paragraph saying which CA laws are to be unaffected, the CUA and MMP are not there. He covers this by only focusing on the fact that they didnt include it in the "limitations" portion either. Really a sweetheart of a deal.

I can hear all of the little kiddies now "where's your proof?!? blah blah blah!!! we are mad! how dare you!" Read the letter. Or...

I am working on a formal response to his letter...Hopefully will have it done by Monday. Then you can all go to town on your call-outs and I will gladly respond when able. But if you have nothing and just want me to do the research for you, its not happening.
 

mrFancyPlants

Well-Known Member
was actually apologizing to the clown avatar because i thought he was talking to me. But what a kind response from a no voter to a yes voter. bravo. Vote yes.
Sorry about that - I forgot that just replying without a quote doesn't provide a link back to the message that was replied to.

Yes on 19!

The reason people are so pissed at the naysayers is that this is the first real opportunity for reforming marijuana laws and ending 80 years of failed international drug policy. A 'no' vote is like voting to continue slavery. It's frustrating that people who are new to the issue see some crank on youtube and start spreading their lies - bullshit interpretations like thinking prop 19 limits the freedoms granted under prop 215. It's funny to see people elevate a youtube crank above NORML, Students for Sensible Drug Policy, the Drug Policy Alliance, Marc Emery, Ed Rosenthal and countless others. I understand potheads like conspiracy theories but come on. Just the fact that nearly every politician in California is against prop 19 should tell you something.
 

Needofweed

Active Member
who are you to say anyone is new to this issue?Nobody that who.

who ever said that prop 19 is our only chance and only way for the legalization of cannabis is a liar.



PROPOSED WORDING AS OF 05/13/2010:
California Cannabis Hemp & Health Initiative 2012


California Cannabis Hemp & Health Initiative 2012​

AN ACT TO AMEND THE HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE OF CALIFORNIA:


I. Add Section 11362.6 to the Health and Safety Code of California, any laws or policies to the contrary notwithstanding:​

1. No person, individual, or corporate entity shall be arrested or prosecuted, be denied any right or privilege, nor be subject to any criminal or civil penalties for the possession, cultivation, transportation, distribution, or consumption of cannabis hemp marijuana, including:​

(a) Cannabis hemp industrial products.
(b) Cannabis hemp medicinal preparations.
(c) Cannabis hemp nutritional products.
(c) Cannabis hemp religious and spiritual products.
(d) Cannabis hemp recreational and euphoric use and products.
2. Definition of terms:

(a) The terms "cannabis hemp" and “cannabis hemp marijuana” mean the natural, non-genetically modified plant hemp, cannabis, marihuana, marijuana, cannabis sativa L, cannabis Americana, cannabis chinensis, cannabis indica, cannabis ruderalis, cannabis sativa, or any variety of cannabis, including any derivative, concentrate, extract, flower, leaf, particle, preparation, resin, root, salt, seed, stalk, stem, or any product thereof.
(b) The term "cannabis hemp industrial products" means all products made from cannabis hemp that are not designed or intended for human consumption, including, but not limited to: clothing, building materials, paper, fiber, fuel, lubricants, plastics, paint, seed for cultivation, animal feed, veterinary medicine, oil, or any other product that is not designed for internal human consumption; as well as cannabis hemp plants used for crop rotation, erosion control, pest control, weed control, or any other horticultural or environmental purposes, for example, the reversal of the Greenhouse Effect and toxic soil reclamation.
(c) The term "cannabis hemp medicinal preparations" means all products made from cannabis hemp that are designed, intended, or used for human consumption for the treatment of any human disease or condition, for pain relief, or for any healing purpose, including but not limited to the treatment or relief of: Alzheimer's and pre-Alzheimer's disease, stroke, arthritis, asthma, cramps, epilepsy, glaucoma, migraine, multiple sclerosis, nausea, premenstrual syndrome, side effects of cancer chemotherapy, fibromyalgia, sickle cell anemia, spasticity, spinal injury, stress, easement of post-traumatic stress disorder, Tourette syndrome, attention deficit disorder, immunodeficiency, wasting syndrome from AIDS or anorexia; use as an antibiotic, antibacterial, anti-viral, or anti-emetic; as a healing agent, or as an adjunct to any medical or herbal treatment. Mental conditions not limited to bipolar, depression, attention deficit disorder, or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, shall be conditions considered for medical use.
(d) The term "cannabis hemp nutritional products" means cannabis hemp for consumption by humans and animals as food, including but not limited to: seed, seed protein, seed oil, essential fatty acids, seed cake, dietary fiber, or any preparation or extract thereof.
(e) The term "cannabis hemp euphoric products" means cannabis hemp intended for personal recreational or religious use, other than cannabis hemp industrial products, cannabis hemp medicinal preparations, or cannabis hemp nutritional products.
(f) The term "personal use" means the internal consumption of cannabis hemp by people 21 years of age or older for any relaxational, meditative, religious, spiritual, recreational, or other purpose other than sale.
(g) The term "commercial production" means the production of cannabis hemp products for sale or profit under the conditions of these provisions.
3. Industrial cannabis hemp farmers, manufacturers, processors, and distributors shall not be subject to any special zoning requirement, licensing fee, or tax that is excessive, discriminatory, or prohibitive.
4. Cannabis hemp medicinal preparations are hereby restored to the list of available medicines in California. Licensed physicians shall not be penalized for, nor restricted from, prescribing or recommending cannabis hemp for medical purposes to any patient, regardless of age. No tax shall be applied to prescribed cannabis hemp medicinal preparations. Medical research shall be encouraged. No recommending physician shall be subject to any professional licensing review or hearing as a result of recommending or approving medical use of cannabis hemp marijuana.​

5. Personal use of cannabis hemp euphoric products.

(a) No permit, license, or tax shall be required for the non-commercial cultivation, transportation, distribution, or consumption of cannabis hemp.
(b) Testing for inactive and/or inert residual cannabis metabolites shall not be required for employment or insurance, nor be considered in determining employment, other impairment, or intoxication.
(c) When a person falls within the conditions of these exceptions, the offense laws do not apply and only the exception laws apply.
6. Use of cannabis hemp products for religious or spiritual purposes shall be considered an inalienable right; and shall be protected by the full force of the State and Federal Constitutions.
7. Commerce in cannabis hemp euphoric products shall be limited to adults, 21 years of age and older, and shall be regulated in a manner analogous to California's wine industry model. For the purpose of distinguishing personal from commercial production, 99 flowering female plants and 12 pounds of dried, cured cannabis hemp flowers, bud, not leaf, produced per adult, 21 years of age and older, per year shall be considered as being for personal use.
8. The manufacture, marketing, distribution, or sales between adults of equipment or accessories designed to assist in the planting, cultivation, harvesting, curing, processing, packaging, storage, analysis, consumption, or transportation of cannabis hemp plants, industrial cannabis hemp products, cannabis hemp medicinal preparations, cannabis hemp nutritional products, cannabis hemp euphoric products, or any cannabis hemp product shall not be prohibited.
9. No California law enforcement personnel or funds shall be used to assist or aid and abet in the enforcement of Federal cannabis hemp marijuana laws involving acts which are hereby no longer illegal in the State of California.
10. Any person who threatens the enjoyment of these provisions is guilty of a misdemeanor. The maximum penalties and fines of a misdemeanor may be imposed.
II. Repeal, delete, and expunge any and all existing statutory laws that conflict with the provisions of this initiative.

1. Enactment of this initiative shall include: amnesty, immediate release from prison, jail, parole, and probation, and clearing, expungement, and deletion of all criminal records for all persons currently charged with, or convicted of any non-violent cannabis hemp marijuana offenses included in this initiative which are hereby no longer illegal in the State of California. People who fall within this category that triggered an original sentence are included within this provision.
2. Within 60 days of the passage of this Act, the Attorney General shall develop and distribute a one-page application, providing for the destruction of all cannabis hemp marijuana criminal records in California for any such offense covered by this Act. Such forms shall be distributed to district and city attorneys and made available at all police departments in the State to persons hereby affected. Upon filing such form with any Superior Court and a payment of a fee of $10.00, the Court shall liberally construe these provisions to benefit the defendant in furtherance of the amnesty and dismissal provision of this section. Upon the Court's ruling under this provision the arrest record shall be set aside and be destroyed. Such persons may then truthfully state that they have never been arrested or convicted of any cannabis hemp marijuana related offense which is hereby no longer illegal in the State of California. This shall be deemed to be a finding of factual innocence under California Penal Code Section 851.8 et seq.
III. The legislature is authorized upon thorough investigation, to enact legislation using reasonable standards to:

1. License concessionary establishments to distribute cannabis hemp euphoric products in a manner analogous to California's wine industry model. Sufficient community outlets shall be licensed to provide reasonable commercial access to persons of legal age, so as to discourage and prevent the misuse of, and illicit traffic in, such products. Any license or permit fee required by the State for commercial production, distribution or use shall not exceed $1,000.00.
2. Place an excise tax on commercial sale of cannabis hemp euphoric products, analogous to California's wine industry model, so long as no excise tax or combination of excise taxes shall exceed $10.00 per ounce.
3. Determine an acceptable and uniform standard of impairment based on performance testing, to restrict persons impaired by cannabis hemp euphoric products from operating a motor vehicle or heavy machinery, or otherwise engaging in conduct that may affect public safety.
4. Regulate the personal use of cannabis hemp euphoric products in enclosed and/or restricted public places.
IV. Pursuant to the Ninth and Tenth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, the people of California hereby repudiate and challenge Federal cannabis hemp marijuana prohibitions that conflict with this act.
V. Severability: If any provision of this Act, or the application of any such provision to any person or circumstance, shall be held invalid by any court, the remainder of this Act, to the extent it can be given effect, or the application of such provisions to persons or circumstances other than those as to which it is held invalid, shall not be affected thereby, and to this end the provisions of this Act are severable.
VI. Construction: If any rival or conflicting initiative regulating any matter addressed by this act receives the higher affirmative vote, then all non-conflicting parts shall become operative.
VII. Purpose of Act: This Act is an exercise of the police powers of the State for the protection of the safety, welfare, health, and peace of the people and the environment of the State, to protect the industrial and medicinal uses of cannabis hemp, to eliminate the unlicensed and unlawful cultivation, selling, and dispensing of cannabis hemp; and to encourage temperance in the consumption of cannabis hemp euphoric products. It is hereby declared that the subject matter of this Act involves, in the highest degree, the ecological, economic, social, and moral well-being and safety of the State and of all its people. All provisions of this Act shall be liberally construed for the accomplishment of these purposes: to respect human rights, to promote tolerance, and to end cannabis hemp prohibition.
Eddy Lepp

George Clayton Johnson

Michael S. Jolson

http://youthfederation.com/cchhi2012.html
 

vertise

Well-Known Member
Yes they seem to love love love conspiracy theories and anything that "the man" is involved in....:wall:
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
who are you to say anyone is new to this issue?Nobody that who.

who ever said that prop 19 is our only chance and only way for the legalization of cannabis is a liar.
PROPOSED WORDING AS OF 05/13/2010:
California Cannabis Hemp & Health Initiative 2012
Homie, we all can fully support the Jack H initiative, seriously best initiative ever. But in reality it is ZERO CHANCE of ever going anywhere because it is too perfect. 19 is full of horrible compromises, but this is why it will pass, and that is the sad state of politics.
 

vertise

Well-Known Member
cchh has no chance. Non smokers along with most groups will not support it. Its a dream but a unreachable one.
 
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