Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

[Matt Rize]

i'm referring to my soil. i've added dolomite lime recently, and i figure the ACV will drop the pH, and the dolomite will stabilize it. i've never had pH problems and this is really lame.

pH issues are the worst, and why i originally turned to the Bio Terra Plus.

To correct I generally overcorrect my a pH by a magnitude of 3. meaning, if your soil is at 6.8, and you want to get it to 6.5, then pH your water to 5.9 (the difference times 3)

of course, you can only take that so far without injuring your roots system.

 

[upthearsenal]

pH issues are the worst, and why i originally turned to the Bio Terra Plus.

To correct I generally overcorrect my a pH by a magnitude of 3. meaning, if your soil is at 6.8, and you want to get it to 6.5, then pH your water to 5.9 (the difference times 3)

of course, you can only take that so far without injuring your roots system.

what exactly do you correct it with?

 

[Matt Rize]

what exactly do you correct it with?

I've been adjusting my nutrients to have whatever pH I want without using UP/DOWN. Good nutes should bring the pH to 6.4 if you mix to label and use a double filter. Bio Canna does that and I've noticed some other high quality products do that too. Some supplements, like hygrozyme, can really drop your pH if you mix to label. I'm not sure what you are using but if you do a test you can compare how each product affects pH compared to your plain water. And if you let them sit for a few hours you can see if the pH goes back to tap pH, or whatever is going in solution over time.

You know, a little extra humic acid, or fulvic, or whatever you got that will drop the pH while keeping it organy.

 

[upthearsenal]

I've been adjusting my nutrients to have whatever pH I want without using UP/DOWN. Good nutes should bring the pH to 6.4 if you mix to label and use a double filter. Bio Canna does that and I've noticed some other high quality products do that too. Some supplements, like hygrozyme, can really drop your pH if you mix to label. I'm not sure what you are using but if you do a test you can compare how each product affects pH compared to your plain water. And if you let them sit for a few hours you can see if the pH goes back to tap pH, or whatever is going in solution over time.

You know, a little extra humic acid, or fulvic, or whatever you got that will drop the pH while keeping it organy.

muchas gracias, i can't wait to get my stuff for a new soil mix. this Pure Earth i'm using is almost decent, holds a bit too much water for being called an "aeration formula"

 

[upthearsenal]

anyone work with Earth Juice natural up & down? or any other natural product like that

 

[Matt Rize]

anyone work with Earth Juice natural up & down? or any other natural product like that

Used the earth juice crystal down forever, then tried GH liquid down. Both worked well.

 

[upthearsenal]

have you seen the super soil recipe on here? remove/replace a couple ingredients...

 

[Matt Rize]

have you seen the super soil recipe on here? remove/replace a couple ingredients...

Yeah, of course. I've been on here forever, just joined recently. Sub is the man, I convinced the dispensary to start carrying his beans.

Post edit: For those that don't know about the super soil:
"8 large bags of high quality organic potting soil with coco and Mycorrhizae
25-50 lbs. of organic worm castings
5 lbs. of Blood meal 12-0-0
5 lbs. Bat guano 0-5-0
5 lbs. Fish Bone Meal 3-16-0
¾ cup Epsom salt
1 cup Sweet lime (Dolomite)
½ cup Azomite ( Trace element)
2 Tbs. powdered Humic acid
*** If using an RO system add in 1/2 cup powdered Cal/mag " from his thread two clicks away.

I would like to point out that he is not using bulk peat/perlite/bark products from the nursery, but IN FACT using store bought pre-made potting soils that are a blend of soil and soil-less media that has been designed for organic Cannabis, just like me. But his has perlite... Of course, the major difference is that he adds his food from the start, I add mine as needed in solution.

 

[Matt Rize]

FROM GFOYLE: "feeding regimen
Hey man, Could you help me with my proposed regimen for my next grow?

Whether you are familiar with the ingredients or not, any input is valued.
I hope to plant in biobizz all mix with some perlite/worm castings/dolomite and myco mixed in
I would like to try some vegan nutes, but I don't feel comfortable ordering canna. I can buy Pura vida, do you have any experience with that? I was hoping to use the grow/bloom with liquid karma and molasses.

I also really hope to have a set up that I don't need to alter the ph of the water. I understand organic nutes lower the ph of the water naturally (after some mol+LK mine is around 7) and having humates in the soil keeps it from rising after watering. Any other tips?

Thank you!"

anyone got some input? I haven't used the pura vida.

Your soil mix sounds ready to rock. A little more diversity being added to the structure/nutrient value with perlite/casting/myco is good.

I have recently heard good things about the pura vida, but have not tried it. Do a test with it by mixing some in water and seeing how it affects pH over the course of 24 hours. This will help you understand what is going on with your nute solution and pH. Molasses will feed the microbes and supply micronutrients, can't hurt.

If you are on the east coast, 7 pH might work out due to the acidic nature of the water. But if you are on the west coast, or anywhere else with alkaline water, 7 pH will prove to be too high over time.

 

[Fluxcap]

Hey Matt, you seam to know your stuff. Let me tell you what I'm working and get your input.

First my soil

I mixed a bag each of Ocean forest, light warrior, and Happy Frog, with 15Lbs of earth worm casting, 3 cups of lime, 6-7 oz of Humboldt's Myco Madness, one cup Peace of mind tomato & vegetable 7-4-5 and few handfuls of perlite.

I'm hoping this soil will carry me through veg and most of flower, do you think this is the case? I ask because I'm bad at noticing deficiencies until they are about to spread to the whole plant.

I also have a box of the entire General Organics line. I know how to use the Grow and bloom nutes as well as the Calmag but I'm not sure about all of the other bottles.

One bottle, diamond black is supposedly a soil conditioner containing Leonardite, Then there's a bottle of Bio-Weed which is made from sea weed and supposedly helps plants recover from stress, there are also few more bottles made from other things like squid and rock phosphate. One is to help the mycorhazie.


Do I really need any of these products? I don't want to risk burning my plants but is seams like all of the bottles work together so I don't want to leave out a key part.

I tried to build a soil that would nourish the endomycorrhazie, but if I can help them even more with all of the extra bottles I'll give it a try, whats your opinion?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Matt Rize]

Hey Matt, you seam to know your stuff. Let me tell you what I'm working and get your input.

First my soil

I mixed a bag each of Ocean forest, light warrior, and Happy Frog, with 15Lbs of earth worm casting, 3 cups of lime, 6-7 oz of Humboldt's Myco Madness, one cup Peace of mind tomato & vegetable 7-4-5 and few handfuls of perlite.

I'm hoping this soil will carry me through veg and most of flower, do you think this is the case? I ask because I'm bad at noticing deficiencies until they are about to spread to the whole plant.
I also have a box of the entire General Organics line. I know how to use the Grow and bloom nutes as well as the Calmag but I'm not sure about all of the other bottles.
One bottle, diamond black is supposedly a soil conditioner containing Leonardite, Then there's a bottle of Bio-Weed which is made from sea weed and supposedly helps plants recover from stress, there are also few more bottles made from other things like squid and rock phosphate. One is to help the mycorhazie.
Do I really need any of these products? I don't want to risk burning my plants but is seams like all of the bottles work together so I don't want to leave out a key part.
I tried to build a soil that would nourish the endomycorrhazie, but if I can help them even more with all of the extra bottles I'll give it a try, whats your opinion?
Thanks for your help.

Well, the good thing is that organics are harder to burn with, and you ARE good at seeing deficiencies already but just need the confidence.
Your soil mix sounds good for minimal feeding. Why would you mix so many media? I personally like to do that to, just curious.

The Diamond Black is actually something I use a lot of. I consider it a liquid version of awesome soil, that I add to my mostly soil-less media (your media is a mix of soil-less and soil base). You can use that (0-0-1) without burning, and you don't have to feed full strength on any of these products unless they need the food.

And I've been a huge fan of seaweed products for a long time, they are a major portion of the PLANT BASED ORGANIC INDOOR SOIL-LESS system that I'm working on. (.2-0-.3) is also a rating that practically cannot burn.

The root boost is something that also, cannot hurt. I use lots of that kind of product early, and then just a little throughout. (1-1-1) can't really burn.

Don't be shy with the flower booster, (.5-.1-1) is also something that can't really burn if used on top of slow release. Just make sure to do a real flush (2 weeks plus) to get rid of all the food and get some good chlorosis (yellowing).

Deficient herb tastes the best...what can I say...my whole set up is based around being able to cut the food out at the end and forcing the plants to live off of their stores of chlorophyll.

+ rep me if you like the answer, hope I helped. peas.

You should be good on food through veg and early flower. And if you use a tea now and then to refresh your microbes, should be gravy if your water is quality. Don't be shy with the flower food, your slow release is mostly Nitrogen. Deficiencies start either at the top or bottom, if anything doesn't look quite right, then it is not. Watch your pH both water and soil.

 

[Matt Rize]

Yes, I have finally got both my flowers and bubble hash submitted for analysis. While submitting my samples I got to check out some of subcool's ganja. By which I mean GROWN BY THE SUB AND MZ JILL THEMSELVES! Greenhouse style! Very interesting assortment of flavors, I can't remember which one smelled like cream soda, but that was really cool. Uh...still my indoor veganic Blackberry Kush looks and smells better, but I may be biased and I spent way more to grow way less. Update on the results asap. Peas.

 

[JRTokin]

Hi matt, hows it going? Just wanted to ask if you could recommend me a good organic soil line and nutrients for my next grow.

I dont want anything too rich, just a good quality organic compost with a view to making teas etc. Im new to the organics world but having tried (and failed) a soiless grow in canna coco would like to attempt this in soil with some nice home brewed teas.

Ive heard good things about the canna organics line, is it possible to use canna terra bio plus with teas etc and get good results or would you recommend sticking with the canna line of bio nutes for ease? Also was looking to add some organisms to the soil, could you recommend any?

Thanks

JR

 

[cerberus]

You should be good on food through veg and early flower. And if you use a tea now and then to refresh your microbes, should be gravy if your water is quality. Don't be shy with the flower food, your slow release is mostly Nitrogen. Deficiencies start either at the top or bottom, if anything doesn't look quite right, then it is not. Watch your pH both water and soil.

how do you make such an assumption and not even have a veg time? if he isvegging for three months will it be the same? how big are his buckets? what kind of light is he using? (more power = more metabolism for the plant = more food consuption)
sorry man, I like to read your stuff. but unless you have previuous knowledge about his grow alot of that info is off the cuff with little to shore it up.. how often does he water, does he water untill water drips out the bottom or just a taste? does he do flushing? is he going to flush?

way more questions could have been asked before a definitive answer would be appropriate..

again man, I don't mean to dog on ya, but I see horrible info passed on to people all the time and it gets quelched by responsible and knowledgable people (like yourself) setting the example..

 

[Matt Rize]

again man, I don't mean to dog on ya, but I see horrible info passed on to people all the time and it gets quelched by responsible and knowledgable people (like yourself) setting the example..

Well cerb, I used the word "should" from the start because I don't know a damn thing about his grow other than what he gave me. You could help the guy out, instead of pointing out my lacking... nothing in my response was horrible... not like I told him to grow chemy hydro.

Please do go back and notice the "should"s and "if"s that are peppered throughout my response.

This thread is supposed to be about VEGAN ORGANICS anyways, lol. Keep the questions coming guys, I will do all I can to help get you started on the organics path.

 

[Matt Rize]

Hi matt, hows it going? Just wanted to ask if you could recommend me a good organic soil line and nutrients for my next grow.

I dont want anything too rich, just a good quality organic compost with a view to making teas etc. Im new to the organics world but having tried (and failed) a soiless grow in canna coco would like to attempt this in soil with some nice home brewed teas.

Ive heard good things about the canna organics line, is it possible to use canna terra bio plus with teas etc and get good results or would you recommend sticking with the canna line of bio nutes for ease? Also was looking to add some organisms to the soil, could you recommend any?
Thanks
JR

The Bio Terra Plus is actually a soil-less media, with zero pre-charge and slow release food. Adding teas to the BTPlus without adding food won't do much unless you've mixed in slow release food. But, this media works beautifully with the Bio Canna nutes. Like, WOW quality. In BTPLUS you will have to give food with every watering, and teas will help your rhizosphere.

If you are new to organics, I would suggest one of two routes:
A) grow in subcools super soil, or some version of that. the issue with super soil is that it takes time to "cook" before it is ready to be used. this will allow you to just add teas.

B) go Bio Canna all the way: BioTerra Plus, Flores, Vega, BioBoost. Plus, get a cal/mag supplement, either way you go. You will have to feed a lot, but the quality will blow your mind, and the ability to flush will be like none other.

 

[JRTokin]

Thanks for the heads up,
Im thinking of going down the supersoil line with teas. Will the subcools be ok to plant seedlings in or is it too rich? Also when do you start giving teas etc? Or is it just a case of watering through veg?

 

[Fluxcap]

Well if it clears it up, I'm vegging clones in 6 inch pots, untill they are ready to transplant( I go by the roots, not the size of the foliage) Then I'm repotting in to 2.75 gallon pots giving the plants a few days to recover and switching to 12/12. I should have pointed out I'm trying to give the roots plenty of soil so I don't have to fertilize as much.

Your original post helped me, sorry if this is the wrong thread for my questions.

Also I mixed all of the soils because they all brought some thing different. The happy frog and light warrior both have mycorrhiza, while the ocean forest has some good food. Once I mixed them the texture was pretty nice as apposed to any one bag on its own, and just needed a little perlite.

 

[Matt Rize]

Thanks for the heads up,
Im thinking of going down the supersoil line with teas. Will the subcools be ok to plant seedlings in or is it too rich? Also when do you start giving teas etc? Or is it just a case of watering through veg?

Check out sub's thread, on the first post he says that his mix is not for direct planting of clones/seeds. And that it is more of a soil conditioner to be mixed and transplanted into with established plants. I've never used his recipe.

I give teas from start to finish. In the Bountea system you give the plants an inoculant (called Root Web) early, then more teas with food as needed.

 

[Matt Rize]

Well if it clears it up, I'm vegging clones in 6 inch pots, untill they are ready to transplant( I go by the roots, not the size of the foliage) Then I'm repotting in to 2.75 gallon pots giving the plants a few days to recover and switching to 12/12. I should have pointed out I'm trying to give the roots plenty of soil so I don't have to fertilize as much.

Your original post helped me, sorry if this is the wrong thread for my questions.

Also I mixed all of the soils because they all brought some thing different. The happy frog and light warrior both have mycorrhiza, while the ocean forest has some good food. Once I mixed them the texture was pretty nice as apposed to any one bag on its own, and just needed a little perlite.

I assumed something of this manner... cerb: three month veg? really? come on now.
Hey, no worries about where you posted, glad to help.

Mixing medias: agreed for all the reasons you have listed.