God did not Create the Universe, says Hawking

Vento

Well-Known Member

WE ARE NOT ALONE !

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/30/alien_world_gliese_581g/




Stargazing boffins say they have discovered evidence of a potentially habitable world orbiting a star just 20 light-years from Earth. They add that the circumstances of the discovery suggest that the galaxy may be "teeming with potentially habitable planets".
Artist's conception showing the inner four planets of the Gliese 581 system. GJ 581g, potentially habitable, is in the foreground.

The star in question is Gliese 581 in the constellation Libra, whose planets have been in the scientific news for some years now. In particular, boffins have tended to focus on the planet Gliese 581d, which has around seven times the mass of Earth. It lies at such a distance from its dim, red M-class sun as to make it pretty cold, but some scientists say that if conditions on the surface are right liquid water could perhaps exist there.

Now, however, a team of boffins from the Lick-Carnegie Exoplanet Survey have brought a new method into play: that of measuring tiny movements of the star in response to gravitational pulls upon it by its orbiting planets. Compiling 11 years' worth of radial velocity measurements of Gliese 581, the scientists say they have found two new planets, Gliese 581 f and g. It is Gliese 581g, massing about three times what Earth does, that is of interest:

The estimated equilibrium temperature of GJ 581g is 228 K, placing it squarely in the middle of the habitable zone of the star and offering a very compelling case for a potentially habitable planet around a very nearby star.

The given temperature of 228 Kelvin equates to 45 degrees below zero on the everyday Celsius scale, but the Carnegie scientists believe that surface temperatures would average between -31°C and -12°C. As it is very close to its parent star, the planet is liable to be tidally locked - with one face constantly turned to its primary, as the Moon is to Earth here in our solar system. This would lead to blazing heat on the bright side and freezing chill on the dark, and bands of intermediate temperature in between.

Though much more massive than Earth, Gliese 581g is also assessed as being perhaps half again as big. Thus its surface gravity would be anywhere from 1.1 to 1.7 g - good for holding an atmosphere, and quite feasible for humans to walk about in.

The Carnegie team says that the mere fact of Gliese 581g being found almost as soon as the new radial-velocity boffinry tool was put into use suggests that "eta_Earth", the fraction of stars which have potentially-habitable planets, is likely to be large - "on the order of a few tens of percent". They add:

If the local stellar neighborhood is a representative sample of the galaxy as a whole, our Milky Way could be teeming with potentially habitable planets.
 

brandon.

Well-Known Member

Wrong.

Theory does not mean "guess" in science. There are also different degrees of "theory". For instance we have a pretty good idea about the theory of evolution, it is pretty much the accepted theory of how we evolved from primitive life forms to human beings. Same thing with the big bang theory. Both those theories have mountains of evidence to back them up.
Absolutely, "!=" means does not equal. I don't know how to type the equal sign with a slash through it.
 

Johnny Retro

Well-Known Member
How could somthing be created from nothing? its somthing i ponder every fuckin day. What was the start of this? What energy was created that continued to build and build this universe. If only we could have all the answers.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
How could somthing be created from nothing? its somthing i ponder every fuckin day. What was the start of this? What energy was created that continued to build and build this universe. If only we could have all the answers.

Idk, does "nothing" really ever exist? Think about that... doesn't the very name and definition of what the "nothing" is make it "something"? In that sense, nothing IS something.

But for believers to say "God did it" is a cop out. It doesn't explain anything, it's a useless statement. The big bang and Hawkings ideas are so much more plausible than any religious dogma, the problem is emotion clouds peoples judgment and that I'm afraid we will never escape.
 

shishkaboy

Well-Known Member
...Serious man, again with this?

Learn what "theory" means in science.

If you come up with a scientific idea, that's all it is, an idea, a hypothesis, you then continue on using the scientific method, test some shit out, if it doesn't work, you start over with another hypothesis, but if it does, you finally graduate to theory. A theory in science doesn't mean the same as some regular person saying "I have a theory about _______". Theories are backed up by evidence and data.

And no, yours and my guess is not as good as a scientists. That is what they study, they spend their time working on, they get paid to do. You and I just bullshit on youtube and RIU... When it comes to shit like that, why kid yourself?

Similarly, you wouldn't go to a mechanic to get your plumbing fixed and you wouldn't go to a plumber to get your bread baked... see what I'm sayin'? They don't call them "experts" for no reason. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone whose claiming to be an expert in something is one, but for you to straight up discredit science or scientists for coming up with theories that contradict something you might believe in while presenting evidence to back them up is disingenuous.

Show me proof of any god. You said whatever caused the big bang created the universe... well, what "created" the thing that "created" the big bang? Hmmm smarty pants?
All i know is all my life there have certain questions that i wanted answer. And for a long time i have been researching and learning about these very subjects this movie will make u question everything if u dont already Would u take the red pill or the blue pill if u were Neo from The Matrix?
http://vimeo.com/13726978 its fuckin scary dude dont kill the messenger
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
How could somthing be created from nothing? its somthing i ponder every fuckin day. What was the start of this? What energy was created that continued to build and build this universe. If only we could have all the answers.
Who says anything was ever created from nothing? It is entirely possible that the universe is eternal and has always existed. Remember, the BB was only the beginning of the expanding universe, the start of inflation. Not one single physicist has ever declared that the universe just popped into existence.
 

chow

Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as "nothing".Yoy cant sit and do "nothing" as you are sitting,and sitting is doing something,you are breathing etc etc and all these things are doing "something".Even in physics,there is no such thing as "nothing".even in the vacume of space there are still billions of particals colliding with eachother ie doing "something".
 

Mr.KushMan

Well-Known Member
Well if there is no nothing, then all space is always completely filled. This would point toward much more stuff than we can quantify, like the dark matter and energy. However to propose that because if someone is doing nothing, they are still doing something, is the same as the physical composition of reality is pretty absurd, this is a question of physics not linguistics.

That being said I am pretty sure that nothing can exist, but not within our flat universe. ;)

Peace
 

thewinghunter

Active Member
after all he didnt say god didnt create universe he said god wasnt necesarry to create it... very different, papers are soo dumb.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Well if there is no nothing, then all space is always completely filled. This would point toward much more stuff than we can quantify, like the dark matter and energy. However to propose that because if someone is doing nothing, they are still doing something, is the same as the physical composition of reality is pretty absurd, this is a question of physics not linguistics.

That being said I am pretty sure that nothing can exist, but not within our flat universe. ;)

Peace

it's not "filled" it just is. it does expand and contract though. ;)
 

IregAt420

Active Member
Heres my rebuttal to most theories ive been smashed with. THESE ARE ALL MY OPINION AND IM NOT THRASHING(even if I do seem a bit harsh) ANYONE ELSES OPINION. Yours is yours and I will not condemn it.:bigjoint:


Evolution: Come from Apes? I dont see any "people" coming from the sticks sayin "I'm the generation!!!!!" I made it! Sorry, I believe every skeleton that is dubbed proof of our evolution into men is fake. I could possibly become really good with photoshop and slow morph a fox skeleton into my skeleton.

BB: Millions of years? - personally, looking back I see our technological gain being expansive the past 200-300? years? And we have been here for millions? Fire:cooks meat. Stone: cuts meat/defends from animals.etc..its could take a thousand or so years, but dont you think if we had millions of years of history we would be teleporting/ perfect government stance?
--Wheres some evidence of people/things from that long ago? I also dont believe the Grand Canyon took millions of years...Noahs flood could have done that.

Here, let me say this. Whats more sustainable....Nature or Man? Well, from my point of view Nature doesnt govern itself, your either top of food chain or you have some bad ass camo/defensive mech. A big part of our whole human population (including myself most likely) couldnt survive on our own.

I dont know...thats my little rant. :bigjoint:
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Well if there is no nothing, then all space is always completely filled. This would point toward much more stuff than we can quantify, like the dark matter and energy.

Peace
That is not exactly correct. Even in absolute vacuum, at the quantum level, there is the constant popping in and out of existence by virtual particles creating what is called the quantum foam. The net energy can still be zero so there is no more stuff to quantify. Dark matter is something different altogether, it is affected by gravity but not by electromagnetic forces like regular matter. And dark energy, that is a repulsive force that is driving the expansion of the universe.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Heres my rebuttal to most theories ive been smashed with. THESE ARE ALL MY OPINION AND IM NOT THRASHING(even if I do seem a bit harsh) ANYONE ELSES OPINION. Yours is yours and I will not condemn it.:bigjoint:
So you've been 'smashed' by theories?
You might be surprised but scientific theories aren't opinions, they are a model of nature that have been demonstrated time and time again to be pretty good and they get continually better as new theories refine older ones.
Evolution: Come from Apes? I dont see any "people" coming from the sticks sayin "I'm the generation!!!!!" I made it! Sorry, I believe every skeleton that is dubbed proof of our evolution into men is fake. I could possibly become really good with photoshop and slow morph a fox skeleton into my skeleton.

BB: Millions of years? - personally, looking back I see our technological gain being expansive the past 200-300? years? And we have been here for millions? Fire:cooks meat. Stone: cuts meat/defends from animals.etc..its could take a thousand or so years, but dont you think if we had millions of years of history we would be teleporting/ perfect government stance?
--Wheres some evidence of people/things from that long ago? I also dont believe the Grand Canyon took millions of years...Noahs flood could have done that.

Here, let me say this. Whats more sustainable....Nature or Man? Well, from my point of view Nature doesnt govern itself, your either top of food chain or you have some bad ass camo/defensive mech. A big part of our whole human population (including myself most likely) couldnt survive on our own.

I dont know...thats my little rant. :bigjoint:
Why pick on these two little theories? Why not also create a straw man against germ theory or chemistry, or nuclear physics? You know, that whacked out idea about particles too small to see and breaking them apart will create a huge explosion? Oh, wait, I bet you do disagree with the nuclear physicists when they tell you how old the earth is by radiocarbon dating, then I suppose you become the expert then.

Since you get your science education from comic books, maybe picking up a real science textbook might teach you something, like the fact that no one in science says modern humans have been around for millions of years, more like 100-150,000 years and of course writing took until about 10,000 and 6,000 BCE depending on whether you are talking about proto-writing like pictographs and such or true writing. From here, advances in technology can more easily be identified and the speed at which we developed technologically seems to make sense considering the difficulty that it takes to break away from superstition. In fact scientific advances may have been able to come faster had the Church not suppressed the likes of Galileo, Giordano Bruno up to Darwin who put off publishing Origin of Species, possibly due to fear of reprisals and in fact when it was published it received numerous attacks from religious groups all of the world.

http://cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/White/
 

chow

Well-Known Member
That is not exactly correct. Even in absolute vacuum, at the quantum level, there is the constant popping in and out of existence by virtual particles creating what is called the quantum foam. The net energy can still be zero so there is no more stuff to quantify. Dark matter is something different altogether, it is affected by gravity but not by electromagnetic forces like regular matter. And dark energy, that is a repulsive force that is driving the expansion of the universe.
I like this fella..
 

IregAt420

Active Member
well, i know not to express my opinion because I dont know enough big words and my beliefs arent on the same IQ level of mindphuk..

Since you get your science education from comic books <---did I deserve that? You could have just said I was wrong...but then you dont sleep good do you?
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
well, i know not to express my opinion because I dont know enough big words and my beliefs arent on the same IQ level of mindphuk..

Since you get your science education from comic books <---did I deserve that? You could have just said I was wrong...but then you dont sleep good do you?
As I said, acceptance of scientific theories is not an opinion and therefore dismissing these theories without first actually understanding them is likewise not an opinion. Saying something is an opinion does not exempt you from harsh criticism when you are so, so wrong.
As for the comic book remark, that is pretty mild jab at your expense considering how poor your understanding of evolution and paleontology truly is. If you don't like the criticism, then maybe you should take my advice and actually try to learn something about the subjects you so easily dismiss. You come off sounding like a fool when you claim to have a contrary 'opinion' to the experts in the field on a subject that you clearly don't understand.
 

Johnny Retro

Well-Known Member
Who says anything was ever created from nothing? It is entirely possible that the universe is eternal and has always existed. Remember, the BB was only the beginning of the expanding universe, the start of inflation. Not one single physicist has ever declared that the universe just popped into existence.
Yes, but it started somewhere.
What was that somwhere?
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Yes, but it started somewhere.
What was that somwhere?
If it is eternal, then by definition it did not start somewhere. But the actual answer is that we just don't know yet. We only have evidence of what occurred in the first few ticks of Planck time and after. We can only speculate currently on what happened earlier including how long the small, hot, dense universe existed prior to expansion or what caused it to form in the first place if it was not eternal.
 

LightningMcGreen

Active Member
Hey mindphuk, maybe you can help me understand somethin....watched a video posted by researchkitten, an hour long lecture from a Lawrence Krauss, who stated the universe was flat...

Now I know when used in a scientific sense, words like "theory", "nothing", "energy", take a different meaning than what most people define them as...

So my question is...when I think "flat", I think of a 2 dimensional object, like paper (or at least nearly, though it has marginal depth)...so how is this possible, when we live in 3D universe? (or 4, whether you count time)

Possibly a stupid question, but won't know until I ask lol
 
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