Organics ARE chemicals

Kphlash said:
you are combining 2 things i said in separate thoughts. Steroids are synthetic, they should not be used in a humans except in certain specific circumstances. Just like it is not the best thing to put synthetics into your plants. The Insulin thing goes more with my problem of kelp extracts and such- and too much nitrogen will kill your plants too.

Your last comment also supports why organics is better than synthetics. we only know the nutrients plants need from minimalist testing. Deprive it of a specific nute and see what happens- theres how many elements and compounds out there? and the plants seem to suck it all up, so how do you know you are not depriving it of essential bacterial or microorganisms with your bottled synthetic nutes? im still not sure if i have everything when i make my active soils, and i put a lot of effort into that. We have even started buying some soil from the corn and fruit farmers around CO to use as a base. It needs to get tested and stuff, so it tends to be more expensive than the stuff we have been making, but i have seen some improved flavor in same clones from these batches. and as often as we get soils and meds tested we are starting to get deals.

Ya Prof Rize, been following you on here a bit, just never really started posting till i got real high the other day and couldnt stfu at work. so i figured id jump into some conversations here. Ya my problem with veganics is the soil construction. I am working on just watering the plants and letting them grow, but i havent found or made a soil where i havent had to add nutes to the water. any ideas, or we stuck with making teas and all that fun stuff
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Not all steroids are synthetic. Your body actually makes several different steroids. The point I was trying to make (unsuccessfully I guess) was that the steroids themselves are not dangerous. It's how they are used and the doseage that becomes a problem over prolonged use. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are synthetic or natural. Naturally produced steroids can be just as dangerous as synthetic steroids if misused. This holds true for nearly every substance. That's the only point I was trying to make. :leaf:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_hormone

Used properly, chemical nutes are not necessarily unsafe and plants don't suck everything up. :wall:
 
Kphlash said:
Ya Prof Rize, been following you on here a bit, just never really started posting till i got real high the other day and couldnt stfu at work. so i figured id jump into some conversations here. Ya my problem with veganics is the soil construction. I am working on just watering the plants and letting them grow, but i havent found or made a soil where i havent had to add nutes to the water. any ideas, or we stuck with making teas and all that fun stuff
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Replied here: https://www.rollitup.org/organics/364864-vegan-organics-professor-matt-veganics-32.html
 
doc111 said:
Neither organic production nor organic chemistry would define either of those elements as organic.bongsmilie
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Thanks. You would think they would possess at the very least a basic college level understanding of the elements before posting.

Organic in chemistry is a completely different concept than organic in gardening. Lets get that straight right here.

Organic in chemistry refers to molecules and compounds that contain Carbon. Period.

Organic in gardening is a complex idea that OMRI has attempted to define as "95% organic according to OMRI standards"

But in reality, organic in gardening means natural products from natural sources.
 
Matt Rize said:
Thanks. You would think they would possess at the very least a basic college level understanding of the elements before posting.

Organic in chemistry is a completely different concept than organic in gardening. Lets get that straight right here.

Organic in chemistry refers to molecules and compounds that contain Carbon. Period.

Organic in gardening is a complex idea that OMRI has attempted to define as "95% organic according to OMRI standards"

But in reality, organic in gardening means natural products from natural sources.
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That's why I put both definitions up so there was no confusion. lol! No matter how you define "organic", arsenic and uranium don't fit any definition of "organic". BTW, carbonates are one of the exceptions to the "organic" molecule rule.;-)
 
doc111 said:
That's why I put both definitions up so there was no confusion. lol! No matter how you define "organic", arsenic and uranium don't fit any definition of "organic". BTW, carbonates are one of the exceptions to the "organic" molecule rule.;-)
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touche, there are always exceptions, i should not have been so simple in my explanation. thanks again. a professor and a doctor ;)
 
Matt Rize said:
touche, there is always exceptions, i should not have been so simple in my explanation. thanks again. a professor and a doctor ;)
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I'm just giving you shit bro. lol! God's Balls does bring up a really good point that I was trying to illustrate. Arsenic and Uranium are both relatively dangerous naturally occurring elements. Although to further go into the rabbit hole, most biochemists accept that arsenic is actually needed in miniscule quantities. Who'd a' thunk?:-?
 
God's Balls said:
Yep. You think I would. But I didn't, so there.
That's what I was playing with, the idea that uranium/arsenic both occur naturally. Sorry to ruin your lesson plan.
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And to continue your lesson. In the Cannabis gardening world "organic" has multiple meanings. Old school organics refers to growing in a soil with natural amendments, using teas to unlock the soil food web. New school organics refers to soil-less and hydro organics, which boils down to certified organic products. This refers to peat, coco, and/or bark based media, with or without natural amendments, bottled/packaged plant/animal derived food, and teas.
 
Matt Rize said:
And to continue your lesson. In the Cannabis gardening world "organic" has multiple meanings. Old school organics refers to growing in a soil with natural amendments, using teas to unlock the soil food web. New school organics refers to soil-less and hydro organics, which boils down to certified organic products. This refers to peat, coco, and/or bark based media, with or without natural amendments, bottled/packaged plant/animal derived food, and teas.
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For sure, for sure. At the dispensary I hear alot of questions about just how "organic" the meds really are. But you figure, some hydro nutes fly the organic flag--yet are labeled so on just a small corner of the packaging. (PureBlendPro) So stands to reason there's also alot of kids working "organic" that don't even realize it. On the other hand, my pal goes down to the bait shop and gets dead minnows for free. Tosses them right in the soil.
 
doc111 said:
No they are not! :roll:

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/organic


http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry?id=35211

Neither organic production nor organic chemistry would define either of those elements as organic.bongsmilie
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WTF?

All you do is quote Wikipedia and Yahoo!

These sites you use as reference are in NO WAY the definitive answer.

Hopefully one of these days you will come up with your own ideas and thought process, until then...

How do you like them apples?
 
Apparently my try at a simple analogy was taken too literally. Lets go to the food version, they (natural or synthetic derived) additives, growth hormones, saline solutions, etc. they shoot into chicken, spray on crops etc. is the stuff they have finally linked to so many birth defects and general health problems. So my whole argument is how can people not see that additives and synthetics being added to your smokable fruit is no different than spray or shooting it into your food. Not to say i wont use them on occasion, but i eat processed food on occasion too, i just feel like shit afterward, i'm assuming my plants do too, compared to an all natural, healthy diet.

This is all potato/pota'to crap from a troll coming into an organic section and starting shit. It is all semantics, but when it all comes down to it, nothing synthetic has ever been as good as something natural. Period. If it was never in soil outdoors, or is not produced naturally by organisms in the soil, i dont think it should go into the soil indoors.

Now we can get into the differences from soils around the world and the compounds and all that, like id love to see some Hawaiian lava ash in my soil, or see what lion or hyena shit does to the soil in africa compared to the animals and fruit here. Thats always been my biggest wonder and variable-with the million different compounds from all the soils around the world, which is the best combo? Plant material, decomposed flesh n bone, fruit and bug decomp, the silt from bottom of lake or river beds (egypt did it with the nile). All these things are much more complex than we have had time to figure out, and lets face it, we cannot even try to say that we have successfully manipulated the outdoor environment indoors, otherwise id have a jungle in my house like i do outside.
 
DownOnWax said:
WTF?

All you do is quote Wikipedia and Yahoo!

These sites you use as reference are in NO WAY the definitive answer.

Hopefully one of these days you will come up with your own ideas and thought process, until then...

How do you like them apples?
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Right!!!!!! It's Mr. "Sodium".:roll:

Since you have trouble retaining or comprehending, I'll say it again, I always fact check any link I put up. If I don't get at least one corroborating (It's a big word, I know) source, I won't put the link up. If you can show me one thing wrong with any of my links I will gladly take it down. I put up links from credible sources (which I have personally fact checked) to back up what I say. If that's a bad thing then so be it. I have a master's degree in chemistry so I think I know what I'm talking about here, but unlike some folks who just spout bullshit, I actually back up what I say. Keep on trolling. :-P
 
Dude, you don't check shit!

You quote Bullshit sites and say it over and over until you believe it's true.

You tried to tell me that "Sodium has NOTHING to do with salt"

OK then why is the chemical compound of Salt: SODIUM Chloride????

Fact checking a bullshit sites with another Bullshit site does NOT make you right
 
And NO...

WIKIPEDIA IS NOT a credible source of information.

And I am not trolling because I was on this thread before you were.

And you have a Masters Degree in chemistry and all you can do is quote Wikipedia? PLEASE
 
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