This Is Why I Believe.

[djruiner]

Its not about fear man. The whole book is about Gods love for us and how we betrayed His trust. And every since then he has done great things so that we can have a relationship with him. You must understand that God is the opposite of of evil. The definition of evil is the absence of God. Evil disgusts God and he must wipe our sins away before he can have us in his presents. Look at it from his point of view. He gave us everything, and all we do is spit in his face. But yet he still sent his only Son.

what has god done for me?nothing that i know for a fact was him...so what..when anything good happens..its god...what about when the bad stuff happens...where is he then...why is it people say god was watching over me...only when bad things happen...where was he before the kid died...where was he before the car wreck?its only after something really bad happens do we say god had anything to do with it..and WE betrayed his trust...jesus died for OUR sins...im pretty sure i wasnt around then...nothing was done in my name...i look around and see a really fucked up world...if this is the best god as got..im not impressed.and ive went to church..sat there quietly and listened...and tried to "feel" the love and and all that..and got nothing...i dont feel him there looking out for me...caring for me..and i tired...i really tried..but nothing..so am i supposed to fake it?to make people happy...to follow the crowd?if its all about us loving him and following him..tell him to make a house call or two..because its not working anymore.the day he shows up on cnn...says im still here..and gives me a thumbs up...ill gladly follow him and his ways.untill then..or untill i 'feel" his presence...i refuse to follow.why did people first start to follow the bible..not because they felt it in their heart...they was fed fear...do this and dont do that or this will happen..after you get a mass of primitive people to buy into it and follow along...it spreads like wildfire.they needed to control the primitive people...but people wasnt going to change their life and what they do for nothing...hmmm how can we make them get in line...lets make them think the worst thing they can imagine will happen if they dont follow...after you scare enough people...then they start to follow...and now its a mere social issue...certain families and bloodlines HAVE to follow what their parents did..and their parents did...and so on.why do all the leaders in politics talk about religion so much...its more "socially acceptable" to be a church goer...........and since im still awake..ive got another topic...if you read your bible...they talk about what happens to the souls of certain people...say a baby dies..its soul goes to heaven...why..because it never heard the name of god..therefore get an instant pass to heaven...same as tribes living in the jungles..they are saved for not ever hearing the word of god...so then...why all the churchs...why all the books..all the tv shows....if a few decades ago we just stopped talking about god,church,the bible...wouldnt we also gain instant access to heaven...seeing as the reason you follow is to get into heaven...if we never talk about god or the bible..wouldnt we all get access?why do you think missionaries go to other countries..bibles in tote..to take them to tribes in the woods and jungles...they figured out the loophole and are trying to correct it..."hey folks..you all was living good happy lives..but guess what..we got this book..do all these things..or your going to burn..forever...now..had we not came and told you of this book..you would never had to worry...but we want to "save" you...even though you was already saved."
just as the bible has its properly worded loopholes..we have ours

 

[mindphuk]

Your good at fogging the mirror. But I just wipe that crap away. I think there is more than enough here to prove my point. The Bible speaks for itself if you look with an open mind. Oh yeah he the Bible goes on to tell how the rest will be fulfilled. Take your time research them.

I see, so the book that is trying to convince you that he is the lord and messiah tells you the prophecies were fulfilled? How convenient.

Nice of you to ignore and not address a single thing I said in my post like the absolute misuse of translations.

How about you address the prophecies I mentioned before you drag in your litany of the prophecies that your holy book claims were fulfilled? Why aren't any of those in your list?

So let me get this straight, you believe that kings and pharaohs were born of virgins but not Jesus. How does that work?

Try again. I was pointing out how back in those days people readily believed that kings were born to virgins, as it was one of the things that made them special. Do you not think that the writer of Matthew didn't know about this widespread idea and thought that it would give legitimacy to his lord and savior? Why do you think Mark is silent on this? Why would he leave out something so important? Why was it left out of the other gospels like John and Gospel of the Hebrews?
You are falling for 2000 year old propaganda.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Crackerboy, don't you think the whole idea of original sin, heaven/hell, Jesus having to be killed to "wipe our slate clean" (which I never understood), etc. is a little bit complicated and doesn't really make as much sense as one would think an omnipotent being would design existence?

Why not just have everyone created without sin, filled with an unyielding amount of love for God built in already, which would render the "free will" argument moot from the beginning. We'd still have free will and be able to choose what we want to do, except not loving God wouldn't be a choice we could make as we wouldn't be aware of what not loving something means, especially in regards to God.

Bam! Done. I have no power at all and I just devised a system that would hook more followers if true than Christianity.

Some god Yahweh is...

 

[crackerboy]

what has god done for me?
He gave you life and consciousness. Self awareness.

WE betrayed his trust...jesus died for OUR sins...im pretty sure i wasnt around then...nothing was done in my name...
So are you saying that you don't sin? Everyone sins. So he died for all mans sin including yours.

i look around and see a really fucked up world...if this is the best god as got..im not impressed.
No this world is result of separation from God. He gave us free will and we use it for evil. That is human nature. There you go again blaming God for mans corruptness.

and ive went to church..sat there quietly and listened...and tried to "feel" the love and and all that..and got nothing...i dont feel him there looking out for me...caring for me..and i tired...i really tried..but nothing..so am i supposed to fake it?to make people happy...to follow the crowd?if its all about us loving him and following him

There is a book called Sit Walk Stand that you should read. Its really short but explains a lot about this situation. Also a false teacher can also lead you down the wrong road

i refuse to follow.

Thats part of your problem above.

why did people first start to follow the bible..not because they felt it in their heart...they was fed fear...do this and dont do that or this will happen..

No they started after being led out of slavery. How could God be a fair if he did not have a sense of right or wrong? He gave laws so that we don't do wicked things. What kind of God would give laws and not enforce them. You should have some fear of the consequences. It's not even that he punishes you. He just does not allow you into his Kingdom.

if you read your bible...they talk about what happens to the souls of certain people...say a baby dies..its soul goes to heaven...why..because it never heard the name of god.

A baby starts with a clean slate. It does not understand the simple concepts of their decisions.

why do you think missionaries go to other countries..bibles in tote..to take them to tribes in the woods and jungles.



j

Because they where told to go and make disciples.

 

[crackerboy]

what has god done for me?nothing that i know for a fact was him...so what..when anything good happens..its god...what about when the bad stuff happens...where is he then...why is it people say god was watching over me...only when bad things happen...where was he before the kid died...where was he before the car wreck?its only after something really bad happens do we say god had anything to do with it..and WE betrayed his trust...jesus died for OUR sins...im pretty sure i wasnt around then...nothing was done in my name...i look around and see a really fucked up world...if this is the best god as got..im not impressed.and ive went to church..sat there quietly and listened...and tried to "feel" the love and and all that..and got nothing...i dont feel him there looking out for me...caring for me..and i tired...i really tried..but nothing..so am i supposed to fake it?to make people happy...to follow the crowd?if its all about us loving him and following him..tell him to make a house call or two..because its not working anymore.the day he shows up on cnn...says im still here..and gives me a thumbs up...ill gladly follow him and his ways.untill then..or untill i 'feel" his presence...i refuse to follow.why did people first start to follow the bible..not because they felt it in their heart...they was fed fear...do this and dont do that or this will happen..after you get a mass of primitive people to buy into it and follow along...it spreads like wildfire.they needed to control the primitive people...but people wasnt going to change their life and what they do for nothing...hmmm how can we make them get in line...lets make them think the worst thing they can imagine will happen if they dont follow...after you scare enough people...then they start to follow...and now its a mere social issue...certain families and bloodlines HAVE to follow what their parents did..and their parents did...and so on.why do all the leaders in politics talk about religion so much...its more "socially acceptable" to be a church goer...........and since im still awake..ive got another topic...if you read your bible...they talk about what happens to the souls of certain people...say a baby dies..its soul goes to heaven...why..because it never heard the name of god..therefore get an instant pass to heaven...same as tribes living in the jungles..they are saved for not ever hearing the word of god...so then...why all the churchs...why all the books..all the tv shows....if a few decades ago we just stopped talking about god,church,the bible...wouldnt we also gain instant access to heaven...seeing as the reason you follow is to get into heaven...if we never talk about god or the bible..wouldnt we all get access?why do you think missionaries go to other countries..bibles in tote..to take them to tribes in the woods and jungles...they figured out the loophole and are trying to correct it..."hey folks..you all was living good happy lives..but guess what..we got this book..do all these things..or your going to burn..forever...now..had we not came and told you of this book..you would never had to worry...but we want to "save" you...even though you was already saved."
just as the bible has its properly worded loopholes..we have ours

I see, so the book that is trying to convince you that he is the lord and messiah tells you the prophecies were fulfilled? How convenient.

Nice of you to ignore and not address a single thing I said in my post like the absolute misuse of translations.

How about you address the prophecies I mentioned before you drag in your litany of the prophecies that your holy book claims were fulfilled? Why aren't any of those in your list?
Try again. I was pointing out how back in those days people readily believed that kings were born to virgins, as it was one of the things that made them special. Do you not think that the writer of Matthew didn't know about this widespread idea and thought that it would give legitimacy to his lord and savior? Why do you think Mark is silent on this? Why would he leave out something so important? Why was it left out of the other gospels like John and Gospel of the Hebrews?
You are falling for 2000 year old propaganda.

I am pretty sure I addressed enough about the prophecies. Jesus did not try to mimic the kings and wealthy. That's why he chose to be born in a manger not in a palace. And look you want to try and use the Bible to prove that it is wrong. So don't get mad when I use it to prove it true. You can't have it both ways.

 

[crackerboy]

Crackerboy, don't you think the whole idea of original sin, heaven/hell, Jesus having to be killed to "wipe our slate clean" (which I never understood), etc. is a little bit complicated and doesn't really make as much sense as one would think an omnipotent being would design existence?

Why not just have everyone created without sin, filled with an unyielding amount of love for God built in already, which would render the "free will" argument moot from the beginning. We'd still have free will and be able to choose what we want to do, except not loving God wouldn't be a choice we could make as we wouldn't be aware of what not loving something means, especially in regards to God.

Bam! Done. I have no power at all and I just devised a system that would hook more followers if true than Christianity.

Some god Yahweh is...

Wow this post really demonstrates your lack of understanding of the scriptures. If your forced to love God than its not Love get it. Its not a relationship if you are forced to be with someone.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Wow this post really demonstrates your lack of understanding of the scriptures. If your forced to love God than its not Love get it. Its not a relationship if you are forced to be with someone.

If only YOU got it man, damn...

 

[djruiner]

what has god done for me?
He gave you life and consciousness. Self awareness.
no,drunken parents and a broken condom gave me life

WE betrayed his trust...jesus died for OUR sins...im pretty sure i wasnt around then...nothing was done in my name...
So are you saying that you don't sin? Everyone sins. So he died for all mans sin including yours.
well..since god made nearly everything a sin...guess i do..but i dont live in fear of what might happen from my sins...but i thought god was about forgiveness...wait..thats only if i blindly follow and put money in a lil metal trey every sunday

i look around and see a really fucked up world...if this is the best god as got..im not impressed.
No this world is result of separation from God. He gave us free will and we use it for evil. That is human nature. There you go again blaming God for mans corruptness.
so....gives us free will..then punishes us for using it..he is setting you up for failure.thats kinda fucked up.seems like god is doing nothing more then trying to build his ego..why not take away free will..so he has his followers...and then he dont have to punish us for using something he gave us

and ive went to church..sat there quietly and listened...and tried to "feel" the love and and all that..and got nothing...i dont feel him there looking out for me...caring for me..and i tired...i really tried..but nothing..so am i supposed to fake it?to make people happy...to follow the crowd?if its all about us loving him and following him

There is a book called Sit Walk Stand that you should read. Its really short but explains a lot about this situation. Also a false teacher can also lead you down the wrong road
sure...read this book..that will make me feel it..been to a few churches...same result...no book will change that.each preacher is a false teacher...and why is it to truly be part of the church..theres so much shit i got to read and learn...why...the more info you have the easier it is to distort the truth...hide behind the pages as i call it

i refuse to follow.

Thats part of your problem above.

why is it a problem...does my not following hurt you,your faith,your church...no...but its a good idea to try to make those that dont follow feel bad for it..."cause if we cant make you follow out of fear,we will look down on you for it"
why did people first start to follow the bible..not because they felt it in their heart...they was fed fear...do this and dont do that or this will happen..

No they started after being led out of slavery. How could God be a fair if he did not have a sense of right or wrong? He gave laws so that we don't do wicked things. What kind of God would give laws and not enforce them. You should have some fear of the consequences. It's not even that he punishes you. He just does not allow you into his Kingdom. once again...how do you even know these are facts..basing it on what the bible says...flaw number 1.and god giving us laws is pointless..him knowing that man would make their own laws...laws of the land is also the laws of the church

if you read your bible...they talk about what happens to the souls of certain people...say a baby dies..its soul goes to heaven...why..because it never heard the name of god.

A baby starts with a clean slate. It does not understand the simple concepts of their decisions.that my point...but i do love how you dont quote the whole thing..just part of my statements.....we all start with a clean slate..and lose that clean slate when we hear about the word and teachings of the lord...well...shut the fuck up and we keep our clean slate...but wait..if we dont have churches...how can we make money...oops...missionaries...go..now..we cant have this

why do you think missionaries go to other countries..bibles in tote..to take them to tribes in the woods and jungles.

Because they where told to go and make disciples.so then it really isnt about helping people..its about making them drones to blindly follow the bible...force it down their throat even tho they barely understand what we are telling them...but had we not even went to them..they would have been saved...no lets not do that...lets make them do it the hard way

thought i would respond this way also..instead of responding to my comment as a whole you want to break it down sentence by sentence...i can do the same

 

[crackerboy]

no,drunken parents and a broken condom gave me life
God gave them the ability to conceive.

well..since god made nearly everything a sin...guess i do..but i dont live in fear of what might happen from my sins...but i thought god was about forgiveness...wait..thats only if i blindly follow and put money in a lil metal trey every sunday
No not everything is a sin. You are arguing about what sin is when you don't even understand what God declared to be sin.

so....gives us free will..then punishes us for using it..he is setting you up for failure.thats kinda fucked up.seems like god is doing nothing more then trying to build his ego..why not take away free will..so he has his followers...and then he dont have to punish us for using something he gave us
He only punishes you for using that free will to do evil. I am sure you would like to just go around doing whatever you want with no repercussions. But that is not how the world works. Don't be mad that you must pay for your wrong doing.
sure...read this book..that will make me feel it..been to a few churches...same result...no book will change that.each preacher is a false teacher...and why is it to truly be part of the church..theres so much shit i got to read and learn...why...the more info you have the easier it is to distort the truth...hide behind the pages as i call it
No sometimes you need another perspective to get a clear understanding.

why is it a problem...does my not following hurt you,your faith,your church...no...but its a good idea to try to make those that dont follow feel bad for it..."cause if we cant make you follow out of fear,we will look down on you for it"
No it does not bother me at all. I was saying the reason you might have been having problems is because you refuse to believe.

once again...how do you even know these are facts..basing it on what the bible says...flaw number 1.and god giving us laws is pointless..him knowing that man would make their own laws...laws of the land is also the laws of the church
Look just because you don't understand it does not make it wrong. If God did not give laws to follow than the world would be total kayos.

my statements.....we all start with a clean slate..and lose that clean slate when we hear about the word and teachings of the lord...well...shut the fuck up and we keep our clean slate...but wait..if we dont have churches...how can we make money...oops...missionaries...go..now..we cant have this
No you don't loose that clean slate when you hear the word. You loose that clean slate when you know the difference between right and wrong and still choose to do wrong.

so then it really isnt about helping people..its about making them drones to blindly follow the bible...force it down their throat even tho they barely understand what we are telling them...but had we not even went to them..they would have been saved...no lets not do that...lets make them do it the hard way
The goal is to spread the good news of Jesus. Not to force anything. To make disciples is to teach people to learn to live like Jesus. Read about the character of Jesus and you will see why that is a good thing. You just keep trying to make it sound as if someone is forcing you to do something. No ones forcing you to do anything. We are just trying to inform you that God wants better things for you.

 

[djruiner]

let me make this short and simple
bullshit
bullshit
bullshit
bullshit
people use the bible like its a book of facts....what happened to all this magical shit they speak of?why isnt god communicating with anyone anymore...let us all remember that even when he does communicate...its at the top of a mountain...where no one else is around.in this modern society can you not see the game being played here...back in primitive times this shit would fly..but not now...so many things have been proven to be untrue as it come to religion...of the few things you can hold to be true cant be proven.religion was nothing more then a smart political move..and its worked for many many years.now people are beginning to more and more stray from religion.they are seeing that somethings dont add up.and i say to those that havent figured it out yet...great...follow..most points of the bible are good and relevant...be a good person..lead a good life..help your neighbor...i get that..and can follow that.but there is so much bullshit intertwined into that makes it all hard to swallow.its good to have "faith"...thats not where the problem is.its all the lies and manipulations involved...dont believe that....look at how many people have been killed in the name of your god...and dont play the evil actions of man card...the churches have murdered millions of people through out time in the name of your god...so not only is it..follow these rules or go to hell...its turned to follow these rules...or we kill you...now tell me how all life is sacred again?...........bullshit

 

[djruiner]

who is the real bad guy here?

 

[mindphuk]

I am pretty sure I addressed enough about the prophecies.

You didn't actually address jack shit. Responding to my questions and details about the inherent problems calling Jesus the messiah prophesied in the OT with mere a cut and paste job with some supposed list can't be considered addressing my points since you left the majority of my posts unanswered. Did you actually read through my posts? It doesn't appear that you did.

Jesus did not try to mimic the kings and wealthy. That's why he chose to be born in a manger not in a palace.

What the fuck are you talking about? Who said anything about mimicking kings or the rich? Do you understand what the word 'messiah' means? I already went over this in an earlier thread but anointing was something done to a king. People didn't just take some olive oil, rub on on some guy and call him the next King of Israel. A king was considered chosen by god. A king became a king because of what he accomplished. Jesus didn't accomplish the things that god told the Jews the next king would accomplish such as rebuilding The Temple. Why is this a hard concept for you? Why doesn't it bother you at all that Jesus accomplished nothing in that list a prophecies I posted? My list of prophecies include the end of war, peace on earth, no more death in the world; while your list includes such gripping accomplishments as speaking in parables, hated and mocked, drank vinegar, upset about the killing of babies and other such deeds. Oh my, how could anyone be able to do such things...
You also neglected to address the fact that Christians claim things in the OT as prophecies about Jesus that were never messianic prophecies to begin with. I mentioned Isaiah 7:14 but what about this "Prophecy: Seed of a woman /Old Testament Reference: Genesis 3:14-15" How can you with a straight face, claim that Genesis 3:14-15 has ANYTHING to do with the coming messiah? You know the OT was the book written for the Jews. I would think they know a thing or two about which passages in their holy book referenced the coming king and which ones did not. God telling the talking snake what his punishment is had nothing to do with Jesus. Most of your list is like that. Pulling disjointed, unconnected passages and attempt to apply them to Jesus so that it can be claimed he fulfilled a prophecy. It is such a dishonest attempt to make things fit after the fact, a few hours of research and reading on your own should expose it for what it really is but you are too blinded by your preconceptions and need to have the truth fit your ideal, unless you drop those biases and look at everything with a skeptical eye, you will continue to be fooled.

At least other Christians I have had similar debates were honest enough to admit they didn't know what the Jewish prophecies were and be willing to learn something about the religion that Jesus followed. You show absolutely no humility in addition to your lack of critical thinking.

And look you want to try and use the Bible to prove that it is wrong. So don't get mad when I use it to prove it true. You can't have it both ways.

Bullshit. This is one of the stupider things you have claimed. You are the one trying to have it both ways and you cannot. You cannot use the bible to prove the bible is true. Read up on something called circular reasoning.
It is logically consistent to point out problems with a supposedly true story shedding doubt on its veracity. It is not logical to use the story itself to prove itself true, EVER!!! This is what we do all of the time in the real world in every other aspect of our lives. It's called skepticism and you seem to only disregard it when it punches holes in your pet beliefs.

 

[djruiner]

You cannot use the bible to prove the bible is true

now theres some truth for ya

 

[crackerboy]

who is the real bad guy here?

Oh yeah and where did that data come from?

 

[djruiner]

Oh yeah and where did that data come from?

umm..the bible...granted i know its not the most reliable source...but take a gander...all thats in there

 

[karri0n]

You've been sitting here arguing from a Christian perspective the whole time..

Was it the post about the merits of Satan and that it seems like Yahweh is more harmful than him, when I stated that I was pagan, or that I revere all gods that led you to this conclusion? It's apparent that you don't have enough understanding of the subject matter to be part of this discussion.

Yes. Fail.

If I decided to get married at all that is. I wouldn't let personal beliefs get in the way of that. I would think she's wrong, but if I loved her, that wouldn't matter to me.

On the other hand, my last prospect at a relationship with a girl something similar happened, except the girl was devoutly religious and her words were "that's one of my red flags for you" [being an atheist]. So what's that tell you?

You missed the point completely. You wouldn't even be in a relationship with ther person very long if you didn't share some common interests. Someone devoutly faithful isn't someone that you would be interested in.

The difference being I'm not going to kill you for holding different beliefs, I don't think that's the moral thing to do, I also don't think someone should be tortured for eternity for holding different beliefs than me. That seems pretty much like the opposite of moral humane treatment...

Which was the point.

I stated my stance on fundamentalism, I don't think that aspect is correct either. On the other hand, I don't know of many christians readily slaughtering heretics these days. Maybe in Africa. That doesn't change the fact that you're still taking the same "Us vs. Them" stance.

"Can be valid"...

Explain what you mean.

How can objective truths be subjectively interpreted by two different people to be true?

Ex. If you have a red ball in the middle of the room, and two people deciding what color it is, one picks blue and one picks red, they can't both be true. Just because one of them may believe it's blue doesn't make it blue. The objective truth is that the ball is red.

Similarly, how many different people have many different interpretations of God, just like you do, how could they all possibly be true? And yet all of them, each believer that I've ever met has assured me this is the truth.

Schrodinger's cat, anyone? All possibilities are true until one of them is observed.

The fact of the matter is that there is no objective truth in spirituality. Spirit doesn't work the same way the physical world does. A good way that I have heard it put is there are many paths to the top of the mountain and no one path is correct.

 

[crackerboy]

You didn't actually address jack shit. Responding to my questions and details about the inherent problems calling Jesus the messiah prophesied in the OT with mere a cut and paste job with some supposed list can't be considered addressing my points since you left the majority of my posts unanswered. Did you actually read through my posts? It doesn't appear that you did.
What the fuck are you talking about? Who said anything about mimicking kings or the rich? Do you understand what the word 'messiah' means? I already went over this in an earlier thread but anointing was something done to a king. People didn't just take some olive oil, rub on on some guy and call him the next King of Israel. A king was considered chosen by god. A king became a king because of what he accomplished. Jesus didn't accomplish the things that god told the Jews the next king would accomplish such as rebuilding The Temple. Why is this a hard concept for you? Why doesn't it bother you at all that Jesus accomplished nothing in that list a prophecies I posted? My list of prophecies include the end of war, peace on earth, no more death in the world; while your list includes such gripping accomplishments as speaking in parables, hated and mocked, drank vinegar, upset about the killing of babies and other such deeds. Oh my, how could anyone be able to do such things...
You also neglected to address the fact that Christians claim things in the OT as prophecies about Jesus that were never messianic prophecies to begin with. I mentioned Isaiah 7:14 but what about this "Prophecy: Seed of a woman /Old Testament Reference: Genesis 3:14-15" How can you with a straight face, claim that Genesis 3:14-15 has ANYTHING to do with the coming messiah? You know the OT was the book written for the Jews. I would think they know a thing or two about which passages in their holy book referenced the coming king and which ones did not. God telling the talking snake what his punishment is had nothing to do with Jesus. Most of your list is like that. Pulling disjointed, unconnected passages and attempt to apply them to Jesus so that it can be claimed he fulfilled a prophecy. It is such a dishonest attempt to make things fit after the fact, a few hours of research and reading on your own should expose it for what it really is but you are too blinded by your preconceptions and need to have the truth fit your ideal, unless you drop those biases and look at everything with a skeptical eye, you will continue to be fooled.

At least other Christians I have had similar debates were honest enough to admit they didn't know what the Jewish prophecies were and be willing to learn something about the religion that Jesus followed. You show absolutely no humility in addition to your lack of critical thinking.
Bullshit. This is one of the stupider things you have claimed. You are the one trying to have it both ways and you cannot. You cannot use the bible to prove the bible is true. Read up on something called circular reasoning.
It is logically consistent to point out problems with a supposedly true story shedding doubt on its veracity. It is not logical to use the story itself to prove itself true, EVER!!! This is what we do all of the time in the real world in every other aspect of our lives. It's called skepticism and you seem to only disregard it when it punches holes in your pet beliefs.

Look I don't know how many more examples I need to give. If you read all those passages. You would see how It proves his lineage. The virgin birth and all the other points you Tried to make. I understand just fine. You just refuse to look at the evidence that was presented to you. Why are you getting so upset. Is it because no matter how hard you try to twist the scriptures they always prove themselves. All the answers you are looking for are in the scriptures I posted. Read them. You tried to prove the Bible wrong by pointing out scripture to prove your point. But you are not properly representing what the Bible says. So I then have to point out the real meanings and verses to counter your argument. Its not circular reasoning its justification by faith. As a matter of fact go take a course on christian doctrine. Then come back and have this conversation. Because you obviously missed some major points about Jesus and his purpose in the cross.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Was it the post about the merits of Satan and that it seems like Yahweh is more harmful than him, when I stated that I was pagan, or that I revere all gods that led you to this conclusion? It's apparent that you don't have enough understanding of the subject matter to be part of this discussion.

See, that's one of the bigger problems with religion, most believers think they can pick and choose whats right and wrong with the current times. So you think you're special because you think the Christian God is more violent than Satan, OK, you also seem to think you're some special person because you believe in more than one god, awesome! The more the better it would seem with you, logic be damned! I've heard it all. I've heard of Christains who don't believe in Heaven/Hell, ones who don't believe in the concept of original sin, and ones who don't believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old. And I've asked you to personally explain what you do believe at least twice and you always leave with some retarded vague interpretation that's half Christianity and half some made up new age bullshit that you seem to be into. Which prompted this thread, which you have yet to show your face in;

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/382143-what-true-christianity.html

You missed the point completely. You wouldn't even be in a relationship with ther person very long if you didn't share some common interests. Someone devoutly faithful isn't someone that you would be interested in.

Who the hell are YOU to tell ME who I'D be interested in?
Did you not just get done reading in my latest post to you that I was interested in a devoutly religious young woman, she was skeptical about getting involved with me because I am an atheist. So your little example happens to be ass backwards and completely in my favor. She turned be down (1/2) because of my stance on religion, not the other way around.

I don't give a fuck what someone believes. THAT is the point. She does because she is religious. If she wasn't, all systems would have been go.

Fuck organized religion and the bullshit that it does to people.

I stated my stance on fundamentalism, I don't think that aspect is correct either. On the other hand, I don't know of many christians readily slaughtering heretics these days. Maybe in Africa. That doesn't change the fact that you're still taking the same "Us vs. Them" stance.

ROFL still missing the point that that is what the bible teaches. It doesn't matter what most believers follow, that's what it says. Believers disregard it because they know they'll go to prison for the rest of their life if they do what the bible commands them to.

Schrodinger's cat, anyone? All possibilities are true until one of them is observed.

The fact of the matter is that there is no objective truth in spirituality. Spirit doesn't work the same way the physical world does. A good way that I have heard it put is there are many paths to the top of the mountain and no one path is correct.

Well, that just assured me this is the end of our conversation on this topic, as now you've sunk to inducing the spirit world... whatever the fuck that is.

So you have fun with that buddy...

Why are you getting so upset.

Because you guys are ruining lives with this bullshit. Literally, ruining lives, and you don't even care. And honestly, I don't think it would matter even if you did actually care, because this crazy fucking belief goes above everything else. Helping people on Earth, even though it might be whats right doesn't matter.

Makes me sad to share existence with such vile fucking human beings.

 

[crackerboy]

ROFL still missing the point that that is what the bible teaches. It doesn't matter what most believers follow, that's what it says. Believers disregard it because they know they'll go to prison for the rest of their life if they do what the bible commands them to.



Well, that just assured me this is the end of our conversation on this topic, as now you've sunk to inducing the spirit world... whatever the fuck that is.

So you have fun with that buddy...



Because you guys are ruining lives with this bullshit. Literally, ruining lives, and you don't even care. And honestly, I don't think it would matter even if you did actually care, because this crazy fucking belief goes above everything else. Helping people on Earth, even though it might be whats right doesn't matter.

Makes me sad to share existence with such vile fucking human beings.

The God I worship teaches the fruit of the spirit, Love, joy, peace, long suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, and self control. That's what Jesus teaches. You are the only one on this thread spewing hatred. You need to look at your own actions and comments to see who is the one forcing themselves onto others. Who is the one being hostile?
You are on here slamming Christians for doing the exact same thing that you do on this site every day. I can go pull up all your post's and 90% of them is pure hatred. I will choose my God over your hate any day. Take a good hard look inward. All the proof that I need is in the transformation of lives for the better. Try to encourage someone instead of putting them down.

 

[IregAt420]

let me make this short and simple
bullshit
bullshit
bullshit
bullshit
people use the bible like its a book of facts....what happened to all this magical shit they speak of?why isnt god communicating with anyone anymore...let us all remember that even when he does communicate...its at the top of a mountain...where no one else is around.in this modern society can you not see the game being played here...back in primitive times this shit would fly..but not now...so many things have been proven to be untrue as it come to religion...of the few things you can hold to be true cant be proven.religion was nothing more then a smart political move..and its worked for many many years.now people are beginning to more and more stray from religion.they are seeing that somethings dont add up.and i say to those that havent figured it out yet...great...follow..most points of the bible are good and relevant...be a good person..lead a good life..help your neighbor...i get that..and can follow that.but there is so much bullshit intertwined into that makes it all hard to swallow.its good to have "faith"...thats not where the problem is.its all the lies and manipulations involved...dont believe that....look at how many people have been killed in the name of your god...and dont play the evil actions of man card...the churches have murdered millions of people through out time in the name of your god...so not only is it..follow these rules or go to hell...its turned to follow these rules...or we kill you...now tell me how all life is sacred again?...........bullshit

Im pretty sure churches are ran by man. Im gonna pull that card because its fact. Man twists the scripture and makes religion a very powerful political issue. It has definitely benefited the U.S....lol. God teaches we should have only one God and not to worship any false idol. But yet our tv is constantly on materialistic shows that focus everything on money and fancy shit. Im also pretty sure that the churches that killed people were more or less dictators, that taught that their was was THE way. I believe God makes himself out in different ways to different people. Ancient Indians had the Great Spirit. I believe I see him in Nature(whats left of it around here) and just being alive and living here.

Sorry Ive had internet issues for the past week. I like seeing this thread EXPLODE!