Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

[Top5]

matt where is this movie ganna be sold at? or is it done yet?

 

[Matt Rize]

matt where is this movie ganna be sold at? or is it done yet?

kushman is going to NY to finish the movie next month. should be released by summer.

 

[Top5]

kushman is going to NY to finish the movie next month. should be released by summer.

oh sweet! i cant wait! and im going to subscribe to your channel on YT so ill be looking forward to some of your videos

 

[baldhead]

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't omri listed cottonseed meal, blood meal and bone meal sourced from conventional farms? What about omri alfalfa meal?

What synthetic minerals are Canna adding to BioCanna?

In my research I have found boron, manganese, zinc, copper and iron to be lacking in most off the shelf veganic fertilizer sources.

 

[bobbypyn]

Howdy. I've read the HT article your buddy wrote about 50 times & I have questions... this system prides itself on it's uber-organic standards but it seems as though this level of exclusion in a rhizosphere would be detrimental to the stated goal of realizing genetic potential. animal waste is an intrinsic part of a supernaturally charged root zone. Properly composted manures harvested from renewable sources are indispensable to organic growing and represent a negligible threat from pathogens to those with compromised immunity. You'd be just as likely to contract some weird ass fungal infection from your mycorrhizae innoculants as from any responsibly sourced bat guano. Bacteria are also a crucial part of the soil-food web, so to act like veganics is a sterile condition is absurd. Hell, Kyle's Cherry Lopez shot is packed with fungus gnats! how Vegan is that? LOL! I'm not hatin', real talk; it's just that this whole thing smacks of sponsor propaganda. Bottom line: you can't improve on nature.

I have fungus gnats too, but i also have a pair of tweezers... especially for hi-rez photo shoots for international publication.

 

[Matt Rize]

I have fungus gnats too, but i also have a pair of tweezers... especially for hi-rez photo shoots for international publication.

lol at that picture. i would've not let that go through.

 

[baldhead]

What about properly composted cow or horse manure that has been converted into worm castings, would that be kosher?

 

[Matt Rize]

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't omri listed cottonseed meal, blood meal and bone meal sourced from conventional farms? What about omri alfalfa meal?

Not sure.

What synthetic minerals are Canna adding to BioCanna?

OMRI didn't say, and Canna will not respond.

In my research I have found boron, manganese, zinc, copper and iron to be lacking in most off the shelf veganic fertilizer sources.

That is very believable. It really depends on your media as well. Soil or soil-less ect.

 

[Matt Rize]

What about properly composted cow or horse manure that has been converted into worm castings, would that be kosher?

not in my book. you do what you feel is okay. I stay clear from all poops... with the established idea that I do not think EWC is poop. I'm not saying poop doesn't work to grow bud. But I am saying since going all vegan my buds has never smoked better. And now traditional organics tastes harsh in comparison. And I just can't smoke chem.

 

[Matt Rize]

Howdy. I've read the HT article your buddy wrote about 50 times & I have questions... this system prides itself on it's uber-organic standards but it seems as though this level of exclusion in a rhizosphere would be detrimental to the stated goal of realizing genetic potential.

Greetings, I hope I can answer some questions, and we can have an intelligent and civil discussion. There are many natural ecosystems that lack chordate (backbone) mammals and their associated excrement. The exception is the grasslands, otherwise animals are a lesser part of the food web. Think about the woods. Each 10 acres has: one bear, two deer, 20ish squirrels, hundreds of trees, thousands of underbrush plants, millions of insects and worms (part veganics), and billions of microbes. I'm not saying the woods represent indoor growing, and remember this is officially "Kushman Indoor Veganics", outdoor... imvho traditional organics, or bio-dynamics is best. I know vegans who do it right, and they are the healthiest people I know. I am not a vegan another fyi. I am a fanatic local/organic consumer.

animal waste is an intrinsic part of a supernaturally charged root zone.

lol, supernatural root zone, I call it "the ghost weed".

Properly composted manures harvested from renewable sources are indispensable to organic growing and represent a negligible threat from pathogens to those with compromised immunity. You'd be just as likely to contract some weird ass fungal infection from your mycorrhizae innoculants as from any responsibly sourced bat guano.

There are other environmental issues with bat guano. Properly composted is key, and there are thousands of noobs out there trying to do organics.

Bacteria are also a crucial part of the soil-food web, so to act like veganics is a sterile condition is absurd.

Bro, he adds so much friggin bacteria and tricho. it's no joke. Sterile and fecal coliform are two different issues, let's not confuse beneficial myco/bacteria/tricho with the organisms in poop.

Hell, Kyle's Cherry Lopez shot is packed with fungus gnats! how Vegan is that? LOL! I'm not hatin', real talk; it's just that this whole thing smacks of sponsor propaganda. Bottom line: you can't improve on nature.

lol at kyle with all of you. BUT all-plant composting and gardening is an ANCIENT practice dating back thousands of years in Asia. Them asian are pretty smart...

I have fungus gnats too, but i also have a pair of tweezers... especially for hi-rez photo shoots for international publication.

still lmao.

 

[baldhead]

not in my book. you do what you feel is okay. I stay clear from all poops... with the established idea that I do not think EWC is poop. I'm not saying poop doesn't work to grow bud. But I am saying since going all vegan my buds has never smoked better. And now traditional organics tastes harsh in comparison. And I just can't smoke chem.

I am composting the cow manure first then feeding it to worm bins. The end product is earth worm castings not cow manure.

 

[Matt Rize]

I am composting the cow manure first then feeding it to worm bins. The end product is earth worm castings not cow manure.

sounds like splitting hairs to me. but i digress. Why not just feed your worms vegetable scraps? Anyone who regularly cooks should have enough veggie scraps to sustain vermicomposting. And then you can cut out the pre-composting step. Your worms would like it .

 

[baldhead]

sounds like splitting hairs to me. but i digress. Why not just feed your worms vegetable scraps? Anyone who regularly cooks should have enough veggie scraps to sustain vermicomposting. And then you can cut out the pre-composting step. Your worms would like it .

Do you make enough worm castings in-house to supply your grow and if you don't where do you get your castings from?

 

[RPsmoke420]

Kushman and my sister Ava Rize and writing that book. He's just put together his feed chart. But honestly we do not grow the same. We are both still fine tuning our systems. In my not so very humble opinion, I'm always a few steps ahead

I'm convinced this is the only purchased inoculant that is needed:
http://www.bioag.com/images/VAM_Tech_LR.pdf
or to order: http://www.bioag.com/oregonorderpage.html

So, your opinion is that the fungi is what's important? What about benficial bacteria?

Nice find though, saving that and might look more into it.

Hey thanks. There are many vegan organic growers already, but they think of it as fermented plant extracts. Jaykush over on ic organic soil forum has been doing this for years outside. WARNING! some of the mods are complete assholes on IC and ban you for daring to disagree, or calling them out for being money grubbing schemers who smoke 'tane. The entire site is designed to sell seeds and make money for gypsy nirvana. If you talk about kyle kushman, high times, california, oaksterdam, reeferman, or any other breeder (or entity) who doesn't pay gypsy then you will be banned. I digress...

I've been liking mineral maxtrix as a very low dose micro supplement, mostly for iron. Earth juice is one of the best overall nute companies IMHO, and their microblast is great. I think I'll be testing that soon with the vegan line. Ca and Mg are hardly micronutrients in ganja growing, and at times are needed in higher concentrations than Phos. Phos is historically misunderstood IMHO due to the likes of Ed, Jorge, and Mel.

I'll check out botanicare sweet raw ingredients, and get back to you on that. Stand alone Ca and Mg are nice IMO because they are needed in such high amounts. lol and I used epsom salts for about a decade with no issues

Mineral Matrix is no longer being sold here in CA. Not that you can't find it... just saying.

I recently switched over to Earth Juice's microblast. No complaints.
Some Nature's Nectar Cal and Mag would be great! Have said that to myself a couple times. Maybe some home brew for extra Ca? The epsom salt would up your Mg input.

kushman is going to NY to finish the movie next month. should be released by summer.

Pretty stoked to see how it turns out

lol at that picture. i would've not let that go through.

 

[Matt Rize]

Do you make enough worm castings in-house to supply your grow and if you don't where do you get your castings from?

making castings is so easy. i find i have to give some castings away cause my garden is smaller, and the worms don't stop. before i started I sourced from friends... the good thing about medical states is we get to share. you can literally dig up some worms, build a bin, add dirt, add veggies, and it will be all good. its not like brewing tea where you should follow directions and use it in a timely manner.

 

[Matt Rize]

So, your opinion is that the fungi is what's important? What about benficial bacteria? Nice find though, saving that and might look more into it.

Not exactly. Adding beneficial bacteria is what compost tea does. Myco fungi spores in tea DO NOT grow, they get eaten by the bacteria. Fungi spores need to contact roots to live/grow. So I suggest starting with myco*, then adding tea once roots (and the endomyco relationships) are established to increase the non-fungal soil life.


This last round I started with white widow (endo myco only). They loved it. This current round I used root web (endo/ecto/tricho like most inoculants). Im just trying to use up what I have so I can switch to bioag VAM (Vesicular Arbuscular Mycorrhizae).

Mineral Matrix is no longer being sold here in CA. Not that you can't find it... just saying.

Thanks, but is that OMRI or any other organic certification? I like earthjuice... and hear are the only line that when used will yield higher brix levels than biocanna.

Some Nature's Nectar Cal and Mag would be great! Have said that to myself a couple times. Maybe some home brew for extra Ca? The epsom salt would up your Mg input.

Epsom salt my old friend, has come back into the garden after a short experiment without. Matrix is okay... I burnt the shit out of my plants with it by trying to use it even though it has a lower Mg content. It's really good for iron and other micros that are needed in lower levels. I'm over the natures nectar... all they got is a Nitrogen formula for us. But I do use that, always needing more N in my organics.

 

[RPsmoke420]

Matt Rize-]Not exactly. Adding beneficial bacteria is what compost tea does. Myco fungi spores in tea DO NOT grow, they get eaten by the bacteria. Fungi spores need to contact roots to live/grow. So I suggest starting with myco*, then adding tea once roots (and the endomyco relationships) are established to increase the non-fungal soil life.

This last round I started with white widow (endo myco only). They loved it. This current round I used root web (endo/ecto/tricho like most inoculants). Im just trying to use up what I have so I can switch to bioag VAM (Vesicular Arbuscular Mycorrhizae).

Makes sense. I guess I just worry about "getting enough" so I have usually wanted to "feed" the plants benficial bacteria at times without brewing a tea.

Will try doing the fungi first, and holding off on the bacterias.

And I was under the impression VAM is a type of endomycorrhizae ??

I have read some debating facts on Ecto's and their usefulness with cannabis. Any opinion there? Kinda like the fungal inoculate used on legumes, it will work on any legume (beans) to aid in the uptake of nitrogen, but will not work on other types of plants... ???

Sure would be nice to have Universities doing large scale studies on cannabis like they do on other crops:
http://pubsadmin.caes.uga.edu/files/pdf/C 990_1.PDF

Figure you might find that interesting.

Thanks, but is that OMRI or any other organic certification? I like earthjuice... and hear are the only line that when used will yield higher brix levels than biocanna.

I think it was a link you may have posted (?) that talked compared Earth Juice with Canna nutes. Was a great read, I'll see if I can find it. Anyway, it helped convince me to give it a try. But no, no organic certifications that I know of for Microblast. I believe their grow and bloom are both OMRI listed. Not sure.

But how realistic, or reliable would you consider those certificates to be? Plenty of certification programs are less then honorable. Most are simply for profit businesses. I look at most "certificates" as a stamp saying you paid "someone".

Epsom salt my old friend, has come back into the garden after a short experiment without. Matrix is okay... I burnt the shit out of my plants with it by trying to use it even though it has a lower Mg content. It's really good for iron and other micros that are needed in lower levels. I'm over the natures nectar... all they got is a Nitrogen formula for us. But I do use that, always needing more N in my organics.

Right on man. Throw some on your roses, or peppers, or tomoatoes. Can work some wonders. I had a Mg deficiency I fought a few grows back. Read about people using it on peppers and roses. Have been doing it ever since. Got some of the bigger Bells I've ever grown.

 

[Matt Rize]

But how realistic, or reliable would you consider those certificates to be? Plenty of certification programs are less then honorable. Most are simply for profit businesses. I look at most "certificates" as a stamp saying you paid "someone".

I'll put it this way. When I buy products from stores I demand certifications... these effing nute companies are raking in the cash. Don't pretend earth juice corp is struggling, lol, they got money for tests. OMRI tests for synthetics, and without tests it is matter of taking the corporation's word... which isn't worth shit IMO.

The certifications only go so far in terms of what organic means, but OMRI has more info on their site... which is how I found out that Biocanna is a bunch of damn liars. And they use small amounts of synthetic micros... but as RP is pointing out... so does earth juice because it makes life easier for the gardener. Does the Earth Juice micro list the chelating agent? citric acid possibly?

Now if I were buying my gardening products from some local farmers, who can't afford a certification, like most of the food at the farmer's markets... then I say forget certifications.

 

[RPsmoke420]

Now if I were buying my gardening products from some local farmers, who can't afford a certification, like most of the food at the farmer's markets... then I say forget certifications.

Good deal

Sometimes I forget these are big ass companies. lol

As far as chelating agent goes... all I can find is this:

Microblast contains naturally chelated liquid micronutrients which are more readily available and safer for plant uptake. These micronutrients are buffered in a blend of phyto acids, sugars & chelating agents. Contains magnesium, boron, cobalt, iron, manganese, molybdenum, zinc,and copper in an organic base.

and

Earth Juice Microblast
kelp meal
magnesium sulfate
borax
cobalt sulfate
ferrous sulfate
manganese sulfate
sodium molybdate
zinc sulfate
The Microblast tests out to the following percentages . . . Magnesium (Mg) .05%, Boron (B) .02%, Cobalt (Co) .0005%, Iron (Fe) .10%, Manganese (Mn) .05%, Molybdenum (Mo) .0005%, Zinc (Zn) .05% . . . in our experience it’s a great all around micronutrient supplement that resolves almost every potential micronutrient issue likely to arise . . .

^ quote pulled from article done by the 3 little birds on Earth Juice feeding.

Due to the minerals... safe to say it is not organic and could not be OMRI listed.

One website claimed "100% natural chelating agents"

also just read... that Earth Juice Grow, Bloom, and Catalyst were OMRI listed. Then looks like they might of been removed. But every website still advertises all of their products OMRI. I think it's safe to say Microblast is not organic.

 

[Matt Rize]

also just read... that Earth Juice Grow, Bloom, and Catalyst were OMRI listed. Then looks like they might of been removed. But every website still advertises all of their products OMRI. I think it's safe to say Microblast is not organic.

natural chelating agents most likely humic, fulvic, and citric acids. but until they tell us, we do not know. I like the matrix for its listed chelating agents and OMRI listing. But I am thinking of switching to the EJ because its not banned in CA.