DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes
- Thread starter Heisenberg
- Start date
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Good idea and something I'll have to test when I get bigger facilities. I imagine it would work okay for a batch or two but again, eventually you would lose diversity. I suppose the question is, would it be enough of a loss to let the slime take hold.
smithmds
Active Member
Battling root rot too: So, should I use this the tea in my res with some Hygrozyme? I've already got tea in my res, but the root rot (I think) is still coming back. I know, I know- its redundant, but I don't know what else to do at this point. Yes, my res is aqua chilled to 65F and I have plenty of O2 in the res. So I guess I'm wondering, is it possible the for the Hygrozyme to help me if I were to add it with the tea to my res?
PS- I haven't had any cytaobacteria for a while, so that's a win. I might just start giving you rep every day I can Heis for that.
My quest for white healthy roots is still on, but I think I'm getting closer. Battled root aphids, brown slime algae, mites, and root rot now....so hopefully this is the end of it. :
ear Bob- please give me healthy plants!!:: /endprayer
PS- I haven't had any cytaobacteria for a while, so that's a win. I might just start giving you rep every day I can Heis for that.
My quest for white healthy roots is still on, but I think I'm getting closer. Battled root aphids, brown slime algae, mites, and root rot now....so hopefully this is the end of it. :
ear Bob- please give me healthy plants!!:: /endprayer
Stoner Smurf
Active Member
This post really really deserves to be a sticky. Can we get a sticky up in here?
poindexterous
Active Member
Hey I just started a thread about using bene-microbes in ez-clone machines over in hydro/aero and wanted to get the opinion of people here on it
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/403106-anyone-try-mycorhizae-their-ez.html
Thanks!
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/403106-anyone-try-mycorhizae-their-ez.html
Thanks!
dangledo
Well-Known Member
So the man doesnt have to repeat again. No hygrozyme, it feeds the slime. the tea needs between 70-75 degrees for the bennies to do their work. thats the great thing about it, no water chiller needed. info gold from page 1-3.Battling root rot too: So, should I use this the tea in my res with some Hygrozyme? I've already got tea in my res, but the root rot (I think) is still coming back. I know, I know- its redundant, but I don't know what else to do at this point. Yes, my res is aqua chilled to 65F and I have plenty of O2 in the res. So I guess I'm wondering, is it possible the for the Hygrozyme to help me if I were to add it with the tea to my res?
PS- I haven't had any cytaobacteria for a while, so that's a win. I might just start giving you rep every day I can Heis for that.
My quest for white healthy roots is still on, but I think I'm getting closer. Battled root aphids, brown slime algae, mites, and root rot now....so hopefully this is the end of it. :
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
It's extremely unlikely you have root rot with your res conditions. Does it smell like rot? Are your roots still growing? You may just be seeing the "after-slime" some of us get when treating infection with bennies. If you do suspect rot, the best thing is to start over and meticulously sterilize before re-inoculation. Make sure the tea is ready to go with a new res; don't clean the res and then start brewing the tea. That would give any nasty stuff time to get a head start.Battling root rot too: So, should I use this the tea in my res with some Hygrozyme? I've already got tea in my res, but the root rot (I think) is still coming back. I know, I know- its redundant, but I don't know what else to do at this point. Yes, my res is aqua chilled to 65F and I have plenty of O2 in the res. So I guess I'm wondering, is it possible the for the Hygrozyme to help me if I were to add it with the tea to my res?
PS- I haven't had any cytaobacteria for a while, so that's a win. I might just start giving you rep every day I can Heis for that.
My quest for white healthy roots is still on, but I think I'm getting closer. Battled root aphids, brown slime algae, mites, and root rot now....so hopefully this is the end of it. :
It works great in an EZ cloner. The mycorrhizae will not take hold until roots actually form, but the bacteria will keep the water safe until then. You can also spray a diluted solution on the clones to deter mold.
smithmds
Active Member
The tea was brewed at 70-75F, so the bennies should be alive and well.
I believe I'm battling pythium (my first words in my last post were "Battling Root Rot too: ", so 70-75F water is out of the question.
I'm not sure Dangledo if your sentence referring to Heis repeating himself was meant with any sort of attitude, so I'll assume not. But honestly, I think you missed the fact that I'm battling root rot (pythium) and not slime, of which you were kind enough to remind me is fed by Hygrozyme. This is exactly why I asked Heisenberg: I wanted to hear his opinion of my situation fighting pythium because of his knowledge of the cyanobacteria.
Thanks for your help though, kudos.
poindexterous
Active Member
Hey Heis, inspired by this thread I'm adding the myco's to all my solutions now, moms, veg, bloom, cloner, everything. What I'm wondering is how long they survive in the nutrient solution? or in the case in my ez-clone, in plain water? I want to re-add them often enough to keep them present and at optimum levels, but no so much as to waste them. Do you have a sense of their lifespan in water/nutrient solution? Thanks!
dangledo
Well-Known Member
no tude intended man. thought id chime in. forgive me. as far as i understand, fighting whatever, you still need the res temp in the 70-75 to keep the bennies alive.
smithmds
Active Member
I've got plenty of tea freshly brewed and ready to go, just a day or two old.
What does this "after-slime" look like?
My res looks good, no cloudiness. The smell is interesting, kinda earthy, but not bad. There is a nearly a foam (bubbles) on top of the water from all of the air being pumped into it, if I shut my EcoAir5 off, then the bubbles dissipate immediately (<5 seconds). When I do shut the air pump off, there is residue around the rubbermaid where the bubbles collected sediment and it stuck to the sides. I also think the bubbles are because of the bennies eating.
My roots are...I'd say "brown" before I'd say "tan", but not dark brown...they never seemed to recover after the last attack. After rinsing them off and re-inoculating my res, they form a clear gel/jelly/watery substance on them in 36-72 hours. I don't let them get bad enough to where it builds up too much, I clean them off and try to re-sterilize. I've been rinsing them off under tap water and trying to sterilize everything. In the last week or two, I've flipped and sterilized the area 3-4 times. I've been using Physan 20 now, but am fully supplied with 29% H202, 91% Isopropyl, and Bleach.
The color of my roots in addition to the clear slimey/gel/jelly has lead me to believe the roots are either dead, suffering from pythium, or both.
This issue is on two of my systems.
System 1, which is my profile picture, has only one plant living out of the original eight. It has new white root growth on it. So I'm trying to slowly remove the bad roots.
System 2 are rooted clones. However the roots that existed on these clones are mostly all suffering from this issue. They're brown, and soon form this substance I speak of on them. The substance is real watery, which is why its hard to call it a slime. When you pinch it, you almost can't really even feel it. But looking at the bottom of my 3" cups, my clone's roots are stuck together in spots because of this stuff. You can rinse it off though, which I usually do in my kitchen sink.
Both systems have had tea in them for at least 2 days.
I guess I'll just another round of sanitizing and see if that helps. Its hard to sanitize the clones that have roots growing below the 3" cups because I can't pull them out. I'll do my best though.
smithmds
Active Member
I could raise the water temperature, I'm open to suggestions. I just already am adding thriving bennies in there and re-adding new ones every three days. So the colder temps, I'm ok with IF they rid me of the effects of pythium and the bennies work. My feelings are that if I continuously add thriving bennies to an environment that doesn't support bacteria in general (cooler temps), then I shouldn't have to worry about the bad bacteria.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Temps of 65 will retard the tea just like it retards root rot, but it should still do the trick. If you do not fear slime then go ahead and add the hygrozyme. Be sure to let us know the results.
When fighting infection you want to re-inoculate every 3 days to ensure diversity. Once the system is purged of disease, you can do it once a week. The mutualistic organisms will probably live for quite some time because they get food from the roots, but the bacteria in the water die without food after a few days.
smithmds
Active Member
This also brings me back to my original most recent question. In a beneficial bacteria inoculated reservoir, not battling brown algae slime, but trying to fight the effects of pythium, does adding Hygrozyme present a possibility for problems?
I understand that Hygrozyme creates food for bacteria to thrive on, if I have an abundance of dead plant matter (like all of my dead roots) in my system, I am thinking that I would like to give my bennies a boost at breaking down the organic material of which they can then immediately eat before the bad stuff gets it.
I know HZ is redundant, but if I'm not creating food for brown algae slime, then what other harms are there to using it?
I understand that Hygrozyme creates food for bacteria to thrive on, if I have an abundance of dead plant matter (like all of my dead roots) in my system, I am thinking that I would like to give my bennies a boost at breaking down the organic material of which they can then immediately eat before the bad stuff gets it.
I know HZ is redundant, but if I'm not creating food for brown algae slime, then what other harms are there to using it?
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
Go ahead and add it. The only time you shouldn't use it is when treating slime. If your system is clean of slime you should be fine, especially with bennies. I've not heard specifically of enzyme products making pythium worse. Hygrozyme with bennies is redundant, so someone looking to save money could drop it. If you already have it and feel comfortable using it, go ahead. Redundancy is something we strive for in some systems after all. Each grower should tailor their garden for what works for them. Let us know how it works out.
frogster
Active Member
Hi Heis, My rez temp gets down to 58-62 during lights out, and a high of 68-72 lights on.. I just started adding Humboldts flavorful (8% fulvic acid&humic) My roots smell like fresh soil from the Tea.. They still dont look big, white and robust.. The plants are healthy and growing, 2nd week of 12/12... I was thinking its too late to add a root stimulator. perhaps 1drop per gallon superthrive or perhaps a more specific product... but all the feed schedules call off root stimulation feeding at 2weeeks flowering.... i may buy the prozyme to help the roots a little..
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
The optimum tempeture for bacillus bacteria is 78f, and for trichoderma is 80f. At these temperatures the organisms are performing at maximum capacity. When temperatures drop below optimum levels it retards the microbes exponentially. At 58 the microbes aren't doing much at all, at 68 there active but not thriving; barely multiplying and not making many enzymes. 72-75 is pretty good and supports the microlife perfectly.
Findings from Cornell U studies
The only disadvantage is that warmer water holds less dissolved oxygen, but if you look up the numbers you will see that the difference is almost negligible. If you had every single aspect of your garden dialed in, it might then be worth it to worry about optimum DO levels. In some systems prone to disease in which sterilizing agents haven't worked, low to mid 70s is in fact the optimum temp for growth, since the alternative is sick plants.
It's true root simulators are mostly ineffective after about 3 weeks into flower. I still add roots excelurator to my tea which then goes into all my buckets at any stage of life. Superthrive is just vitamins that wont help the roots much, and it is a known trigger of the slime so beware.
Findings from Cornell U studies
So you see, cooler temps do not effect some types of pythium as much as the do beneficials. It's possible that with the cooler res temps you are suppressing the bennies while the pythium can thrive. It's also possible, since enzymes don't care much about temps, that adding them will help, though I personally would just stop cooling the res.
The only disadvantage is that warmer water holds less dissolved oxygen, but if you look up the numbers you will see that the difference is almost negligible. If you had every single aspect of your garden dialed in, it might then be worth it to worry about optimum DO levels. In some systems prone to disease in which sterilizing agents haven't worked, low to mid 70s is in fact the optimum temp for growth, since the alternative is sick plants.
It's true root simulators are mostly ineffective after about 3 weeks into flower. I still add roots excelurator to my tea which then goes into all my buckets at any stage of life. Superthrive is just vitamins that wont help the roots much, and it is a known trigger of the slime so beware.
RobertInAz
Active Member
Highzenberg,
Wonderful post. I started at the beginning and am too excited to read the middle section ...I just had to jump to the end here to ask if your tea works in an aero setup. I apologize if you've already answered, but if I get an answer tonight I can order in the morning.
Thanx, Bob
Wonderful post. I started at the beginning and am too excited to read the middle section ...I just had to jump to the end here to ask if your tea works in an aero setup. I apologize if you've already answered, but if I get an answer tonight I can order in the morning.
Thanx, Bob
petersonscott79
Member
Hi Robert, I asked the same question a few pages back and this is what he said directly. Heisenberg, I hope you do not mind me copy/paste this from my question.
This is what he said -
The concern with using this tea in a aero setup is that it could clog sprayers. Although the tea keeps away gunky build up and keeps my air stones very clean, it does cover everything in a slight biofilm. Very small sprayers could be effected, though I can't see how it would be any worse than salt buildup. I suppose if you are already dealing with an infected gunky res and not having sprayer issues then you should be fine using the tea.
In terms of disease, bennies will let you tolerate res temps into the mid 70's. Some growers will cry that cooler water holds more dissolved oxygen, but I encourage you to look up some charts and see just how much 'more' DO 68f holds than 78f.
You are confused about organics and tea. The tea is perfect for organics...however organics themselves are NOT perfect for hydro. When you see me caution people against introducing organic material to the res, it is because they have proven to be prone to slime and are trying to prevent it. So we keep organic material out of the res which removes the food source for the slime, and we add the tea which displaces and hinders the slime. If you have no slime problems, the tea can and in fact should be used when using organics. If you do have slime, use the tea and drop the organics, or switch grow methods.
Organic material can not be eaten by plants. Never. It must first be decomposed by microbes. The microbes break down the organics into a form that is available for uptake by the roots. At that point, the organics have become chemical fertilizer. So anyone who implies that organic growing involves no chemicals either doesn't understand the process or has given in to the marketing hype. Synthetic chemical fertilizers simply remove the need for decomposition, and are available to the roots right away. Since hydro is about controlling and enhancing the environment, it doesn't make sense to give up part of that control to microbes, and depend on them for your nute balance. I prefer to control my own nute balance and use the microbes for their other uses.
So if you are using organic ferts you MUST add some beneficial decomposers to the water, or else you are inviting bad stuff to come in and take over.
RobertInAz
Active Member
Hi Petersonscott,
I appreciate your providing me with this information -- Heisenberg clearly has a deep understanding of nutrient processes, and I feel very fortunate that he is sharing his knowledge.
Thanks again, Bob in Arizona
I appreciate your providing me with this information -- Heisenberg clearly has a deep understanding of nutrient processes, and I feel very fortunate that he is sharing his knowledge.
Thanks again, Bob in Arizona