Wisconsin Revolt

Who do you support in the Wisconsin Revolt?


  • Total voters
    118

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
So you are saying the benefit the armed forces has provided to the poor over the past 50 years is cheap gas??? Are you insane?

You are openly saying you support the use of our military to pillage resources of nations around the world so we can have cheaper gas??

Maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now if instead of invading country after country and setting up puppet governments to open up markets for us we should have invested that money in alternative fuel sources.

And again, the average citizen benefits from cheap oil a LOT LOT less than the captains of industries.
I think that is about the fifth time you have 'put words in my mouth' or 'put words in my post' :lol:
Nope never said any of that.
What exactly is your position anyway? This post talks about how much of a failure our foreign policy is and I totally agree. Then you tell me how great the FDA is in another post even though they approved things like flouridated water and GMO crops. It seems that you only know half truths, trust me the real truth is that our government has been corrupted at every level. I suppose there will always be lackies like you who tell me how great America is while we slaughter innocent people and allow our food and water to be poisoned . . .
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
So my PC finally shit the bed. I have been steadily adding hardware to it since I had it built, each addition taxing the power supply, which was even less powerful than I remembered by about 50 watts. The system just went black in mid session. And on start would power up for about three seconds and then go dead.

I ordered a power supply tester and a new PC kit :-o because I am ready to build one myself.

In anticipation of the arrival of the tester, I removed the power supply. Plugged it in and turned on the switch. Nothing. Just to be sure I plugged in a device, a spare optical drive. Nada.

The first thing I'll do after officially testing the PS is to install the PS from the kit into my old system. If that works, I'll order a new PS and more DDR3 memory for the kit.

So now I wait for my kit and tester to arrive. Meanwhile, I'm on my lappy.
 

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
The Wisconsin uprising is characterized by indifference to the partisan bickering of Democrats and Republicans and the go slow approach of the national AFL-CIO leadership. It's drawn tens of thousands into sustained, massive direct action. It's broken, if only temporarily, the bond between the rich and the police and it's excited the imagination of hundreds of thousands of trade unionists across the country. It's revitalized the left and the unions.

The early years of the Depression from 1929 to 1934 were characterized by demoralization created by the shock of massive poverty and unemployment. Working people remained quiescent until the 1934 wave of general strikes signaled a turnaround and workers began to fight back and win against the looter classes and their supporters in the Democratic (sic) and Republican parties. In 1924 three general strikes broke out in trucking (Minneapolis), longshore and shipping (San Francisco) and in auto (Toledo). Those strikes signaled the transformation of demoralized workers class into a vast army of determined, steel hardened workers and unions that, until Pearl Harbor, were ready and willing to challenge the rich for state power.

Trade union victories from 1934 until 1947 were the foundation for decades of prosperity. That prosperity was ended by the wave of anti-worker, anti-union administrations beginning with Nixon's wage and price controls, Carter and Reagan's S&L deregulation, and export of jobs that created the Rust Belt. Bush1 and Clinton followed up with more job exports, welfare cuts, and NAFTA and finally came Bill Clintons deregulation that led inexorably to today's Depression and mass unemployment. Bush2 completed the attack unleashing predatory lenders while Obama has concentrated on union busting and transferring tens of trillions to the looter class to cover their losses.

The three strikes in 1934 were like Jefferson's "alarm bell in the night" and so is last week's call for a general strike by the The 97-union South Central Federation of Labor of Wisconsin. Things have changed and we're on the offensive. Now our fight begins.

Our strategy should be to get into unions and insist that the AFL-CIO unleash the crouching tiger of American politics, the AFL-CIO's Labor Party and the hidden dragon of mass action general strikes. - Bill Perdue.
 

Coolwhip

Member
I think that is about the fifth time you have 'put words in my mouth' or 'put words in my post' :lol:
Nope never said any of that.
What exactly is your position anyway? This post talks about how much of a failure our foreign policy is and I totally agree. Then you tell me how great the FDA is in another post even though they approved things like flouridated water and GMO crops. It seems that you only know half truths, trust me the real truth is that our government has been corrupted at every level. I suppose there will always be lackies like you who tell me how great America is while we slaughter innocent people and allow our food and water to be poisoned . . .
I didn't put words in your mouth, I asked you how the military has benefited the poor and you said "Good gasoline doesn't fall out of the sky".

Maybe if when asked to explain your position if you posted more than one liners with ambiguous meanings, I wouldn't misinterpret what you say.

And I am not saying how great the FDA or the government is, there is HUGE room for improvement. But without the FDA and without gov't regulation there would be NOTHING keeping private entities in check, they would have complete free reign with absolutely no accountability. Libertarians seem to think we can just eliminate or cut funding to these programs and all problems will just disappear.

They wouldn't, they won't, they would get MUCH MUCH MUCH worse. Now we could either discuss how to move FORWARD with regulation and legislation to improve out government. Or you(or libertarians/conservatives in general) can keep believing we would be better off without them, because we wouldn't. You can't just cut, and take away, and expect things to get better. When it comes to regulation, addition by subtraction rarely works.

We need to be proactive, not reactive.
 

Corso312

Well-Known Member
i agree the fda is needed... but if i had to grade the fda my answer would be c minus...which means garbage imo
 

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
Due to the rampant corporate corruption of our Federal government the FDA does not protect you from dangerous food and drugs but rather sides with the corporations in the name of making a profit.* Your food is naturally full of chemical poisons and toxins you may not have known about.
Have you read or heard about Ecoscience? It was a book co-authored by Obama's science and tech advisor: John P Holdren. This book clearly lays out policies that the US government (FDA and EPA in particular) have put in place since the 70's and many more frightening aspects . . .
Phrases such as “it has been concluded” are used in the book alongside proposals for forced abortion, such as the passage on page 837 which reads, “Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society.”
Holdren and the Ehrlich’s do not identify who “it has been concluded” by, leaving the reader in no doubt that “it has been concluded” by the writers themselves that forced abortion should be introduced. This is called “hiding behind the passive voice.” It provides the writers plausible deniability, but only the idiotically naive would deny that it represents anything other than an endorsement of forced abortion and sterilization. I try to write clearly, any one liners are likely sarcasm and should not be read into. Unions are great to protect worker rights in private employment. Collective bargaining does not work in the public sector. This is not a Union revival we are seeing because there is no longer any work for these people to do! We've shipped our industry overseas and you people want MORE regulation!? That's is what caused this whole mess :wall:
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Does the purpose of the FDA, the assurance of quality, insist that this can only be provided thru a government means?
Consumer reports seem to work well. As far as I know that's a private entity.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
Does the purpose of the FDA, the assurance of quality, insist that this can only be provided thru a government means?
Consumer reports seem to work well. As far as I know that's a private entity.
the FDA doesn't assure quality.

the real purpose of the FDA was to set guidelines that minimize breakouts of diseases in food and drug plants. the purpose was to ensure food SAFETY, not FOOD QUALITY.

the FDA is the ONLY resource the people have for when Taco Bell uses shredded rubber, synthetic soy, and other materials and promotes it as beef. it's not the purpose of the FDA and you can tell. 50% meat content qualifies as Beef. WTF?????

the FDA is the only resource ppl have when E-coli breaksout in a crop of tomatoes....


why would the FDA be necessary?? i mean there's only been like a handful of deaths due to poor enforcement.... i don't know those fools who died, why should it affect me??? getting close rob???
 

Chad Sexington

Active Member
Does the purpose of the FDA, the assurance of quality, insist that this can only be provided thru a government means?
Consumer reports seem to work well. As far as I know that's a private entity.
Consumer reports does not actually have control over anything, sure it could tell you that your chicken is raised on antibiotics (not actually for killing germs, but for growth rates) and the samonlia and other bugs have evolved into superbugs, but if every chicken is raised that way then you are pretty much fucked come supermarket time. Sure you don't have to buy chicken, or you could buy the "traditionally raised" hen, but whats stopping someone from putting a label on a chemically raised bird and saying organic? It is a loose example, but you get what I am saying?
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
the FDA doesn't assure quality.

the real purpose of the FDA was to set guidelines that minimize breakouts of diseases in food and drug plants. the purpose was to ensure food SAFETY, not FOOD QUALITY.

the FDA is the ONLY resource the people have for when Taco Bell uses shredded rubber, synthetic soy, and other materials and promotes it as beef. it's not the purpose of the FDA and you can tell. 50% meat content qualifies as Beef. WTF?????

the FDA is the only resource ppl have when E-coli breaksout in a crop of tomatoes....


why would the FDA be necessary?? i mean there's only been like a handful of deaths due to poor enforcement.... i don't know those fools who died, why should it affect me??? getting close rob???
Please do not strawman my arguments. I care about people, that's why I want them to have a choice. I don't believe the funding of the FDA is consistent with that.
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
the FDA doesn't assure quality.

the real purpose of the FDA was to set guidelines that minimize breakouts of diseases in food and drug plants. the purpose was to ensure food SAFETY, not FOOD QUALITY.

the FDA is the ONLY resource the people have for when Taco Bell uses shredded rubber, synthetic soy, and other materials and promotes it as beef. it's not the purpose of the FDA and you can tell. 50% meat content qualifies as Beef. WTF?????

the FDA is the only resource ppl have when E-coli breaksout in a crop of tomatoes....


why would the FDA be necessary?? i mean there's only been like a handful of deaths due to poor enforcement.... i don't know those fools who died, why should it affect me??? getting close rob???
But it is a mistake to assume that "regulation" necessarily involves the government.
Much regulation in the American economy is private, produced and enforced by independent parties or trade associations. These private organizations can oversee market participants’ actions by different processes, such as standard setting, certification, monitoring, brand approval, warranties, product evaluations, and arbitration. Private regulation works, and it deserves closer attention.

First, private regulation is effective. Even though compliance with private regulation is voluntary, market participants frequently choose to comply without any statutory mandates or government orders. In fact, firms perceive the compliance costs of private regulation as a necessity for survival in the marketplace rather than as a burden. Take the example of product safety. Today, it is almost impossible for a producer of electric appliances and equipment to claim that its products are safe without the approval of Underwriters Laboratories (UL), an independent third party. Retailers, customers, and even insurance agencies look for UL approval. UL enforces high standards for product safety without government regulation, benefiting both producers and consumers. Private regulation also has effective enforcement mechanisms. Independent third parties use legally enforceable contracts; sanctions including revoking of approvals, fines, and pulling products off the market; and public announcements. Companies that seek third-party approval also put their reputation--one of their most valuable assets--on the line. Independent third parties are flexible and responsive. They are open to suggestions by industry members, consumers and consumer groups, academic institutions like universities or other scientific organizations, and even government agencies. As a result of that dynamic relationship, independent third parties closely follow changes and technological advancements to preserve their expert status. They continuously revise their standards or certification procedures.


Private regulation by independent parties also costs less. As opposed to federal regulatory agencies, which are run on tax dollars, independent third parties finance their organizations by collecting from the businesses they regulate. Since the price of privately regulated goods reflects the full cost of regulation, independent third parties are very sensitive to the burdens they impose on businesses and consumers. They minimize the costs of running their organizations, and they decrease the costs of their regulatory activities by outsourcing various phases of the regulatory process, like product testing and evaluation. For example, the Green Seal, an independent organization that certifies "environmentally sound" products, uses the Underwriters Laboratories for product testing.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
i went to school for industrial management. i went to every APICS meeting i could. i know all about private 'regulation'.

i would like for you to show me a single, privately enforced regulation, that can authorize and enforce a shut-down of production b/c of a hazard to the community.

not even ISO 9000, the most selective and notoriously difficult efficiency and sustainability certification on the PLANET cannot force a company to shut down production if it doesn't meet the standards. it simply puts the company on probation, maybe, if that.... and most american companies that have that certification have it b/c other countries REQUIRE IT BY LAW IN ORDER TO DO BUSINESS THERE. who would've thought???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i know a few industrial engineers who will swear on their lives that ISO certifications and private industry benchmarks which I'll just assume are the 'private' regulation you seem to be suggesting are far more beurocratic and ambiguous than ANY of the FDA regulations in place right now.

you let private business police itself too much and you get the Gulf oil spill, you get tobacco companies quoting research that says that smoking doesn't have ANY health effects, and you'll get PG&E dumping incalculable amounts of dangerous chemicals into the water............
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
i went to school for industrial management. i went to every APICS meeting i could. i know all about private 'regulation'.

i would like for you to show me a single, privately enforced regulation, that can authorize and enforce a shut-down of production b/c of a hazard to the community.

not even ISO 9000, the most selective and notoriously difficult efficiency and sustainability certification on the PLANET cannot force a company to shut down production if it doesn't meet the standards. it simply puts the company on probation, maybe, if that.... and most american companies that have that certification have it b/c other countries REQUIRE IT BY LAW IN ORDER TO DO BUSINESS THERE. who would've thought???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i know a few industrial engineers who will swear on their lives that ISO certifications and private industry benchmarks which I'll just assume are the 'private' regulation you seem to be suggesting are far more beurocratic and ambiguous than ANY of the FDA regulations in place right now.

you let private business police itself too much and you get the Gulf oil spill, you get tobacco companies quoting research that says that smoking doesn't have ANY health effects, and you'll get PG&E dumping incalculable amounts of dangerous chemicals into the water............
And if there was a justice system worth anything THAT court would find entities that pollute to be in violation of others property rights and the offender would have to restitute the aggrieved. That is a market incentive not to pollute.
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
The power supply tester arrived. PS is fine.

So I removed or unplugged everything possible except for the original HDD where the OS is stored.

Same problem. Power down after about three seconds.

I have ruled out any shorts to the best of my knowledge.

Now I'm leaning toward the processor or motherboard.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
The power supply tester arrived. PS is fine.

So I removed or unplugged everything possible except for the original HDD where the OS is stored.

Same problem. Power down after about three seconds.

I have ruled out any shorts to the best of my knowledge.

Now I'm leaning toward the processor or motherboard.
i'm leaning the power down is due to a temp surge being detected, the computer shuts itself off to protect the processor.....
 

NewGrowth

Well-Known Member
Both sides make mistakes government and private. Not sure that is the point to me however. What is Government's place in our lives? Shouldn't we allow the legal system to solve legitimate claims of property damage and health concerns due to corporate pollution? Corporations were once under limited charter in this country, they could only be formed for a certain number of years limited by the services they provided those people.Today a corporation has the same rights as a human being in the court of law, did you know that? Governments job should only be to protect the liberty of the people they serve, it's the job of the media to inform; because we fail at this task and instead choose to watch MTV big brother should protect us. I don't buy it.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
yeah it's a short or something.

what happens is that there is a surge in power, the computer has a little sensor that translates power in to a heat signature. when that lil thing goes above a certain temp, the computer shuts off.

don't flirt with it too much b/c if the sensor fails and you run your computer it'll work for a lil while, then shut off for good.....
 

Coolwhip

Member
by the writers themselves that forced abortion should be introduced. This is called “hiding behind the passive voice.” It provides the writers plausible deniability, but only the idiotically naive would deny that it represents anything other than an endorsement of forced abortion and sterilization.
I'm sorry, I didn't know I was talking to a crazy person. This'll be my last post in this thread.

We've shipped our industry overseas and you people want MORE regulation!? That's is what caused this whole mess :wall:
Regulation didn't cause that, quite the opposite. And anyone who knows anything about the latest(and ones before that, and ones to come) financial bubble(s) know they were caused by deregulation, this isn't even debated among economists. Even Greenspan has admitted that he was wrong about regulation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/business/economy/24panel.html

read it

And both sides do make mistakes, but most the governments "mistakes" are caused from allowing corporations to take over.
It's called regulatory capture. Look it up.

"In economics, regulatory capture occurs when a state regulatory agency created to act in the public interest instead advances the commercial or special interests that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating. Regulatory capture is a form of government failure, as it can act as an encouragement for large firms to produce negative externalities. The agencies are called Captured Agencies." - From wikipedia

Deregulation doesn't fix regulatory capture, new, tougher, regulations and agencies headed by people who aren't in bed with the corporations they are supposed to be policing do.
 
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