Fox Farm Ocean Forest Soil and Ph?

PeacefulKid1992

Well-Known Member
now that is the funniest shit ever. honestly after reading through this thread and hearing all the different bullshit that ff "reps" have said, i'm really starting to think the company is straight up full of shit and nothing any of them say can be trusted. for reference when i called ff i spoke to "joe" and he went into *great detail* about the differences in the soil that was produced at the sc and west coast facilities, and gave me all this reassurance that the chemical properties of the barks were identical. i really don't want to buy any of their shit any more after this, just on principle. it could made of cheese and fairy dust for all we know.
i agree bro i think some companys like that,stoners had found out that this works so more potheads buy it buy it and then they see they are selling and they start loosing care of the product they make,or maybe their shit is just wack hahaha
 

Bublonichronic

Well-Known Member
ok so is there any other good soils out there?
My next fav soil besides FF Is earth juice Amazon bloom, dosent come with perlite the only problem, but added perlite makes it a killer soil, no shops carry it buy me, the 1 time I got it the store "specialorderd it" for me, then when I came to pick it up they charged me 25$ a bag... Other than that roots organic I hear is good, and biobizz allmix, just iv never used them myself
 

Nullis

Moderator
Last time I am going to say this (well, probably not): stop calling customer service reps. Don't fucking bother. Paid to answer phones. Don't grow legal plants. When people get put on the spot they say stupid things, or they just plain make shit up and know full well they're doing it.

Maybe I am wrong about phone reps (well, probably not) but either way you should just e-mail them. Please, e-mail them, I beg you... no matter what company it is. Assume that all 1-800 reps are full of shit. Okay? When you e-mail you at least give the shmuck a chance to do some research.

Alright, now: Mr. Peaceful Kid who is obviously around 19 years old - you have to try and realize a few things. First of all it is highly unlikely that your plants suddenly turned to shit just because you planted them in Ocean Forest. But, I do try to keep an open mind at all times so I am going to say there is a 98% chance that extenuating circumstances, out of Fox Farm's control but [mostly] within your own, turned your plants to shit.

Secondly, Fox Farm's isn't the best fertilizer company in the world. Their liquid nutrients are advertised somewhat deceptively. But, they make a damn good soil. It's almost like how Miracle Grow happens to make/distribute a very fine measuring spoon for their plant food. Half a teaspoon on one side, a tablespoon to 20 ml on the other; I just adore it, and I use it personally- but I, personally, would NEVER actually use that MG plant food on anything. See what I mean?
MGspoon.png

Thirdly, the majority of people here seem to be younger than you and may also be less intelligent. There are a few folks around here who are quite knowledgeable, but most often one can only give advice as pertains to ones own personal style of growing. A new grower unfortunately has little to no idea what pertains to their style of growing. Many more growers might continuously either accept, lack or reject knowledge that may or may not pertain to their particular style of growing - not knowing any better and also not caring to, so long as they think their results are satisfactory and that's fine... I guess.
 

Bublonichronic

Well-Known Member
I personally LOVE fox farm BIgBloom, I think it's one of the best organic bases u can buy...there growbig is great too....actually I like their tiger bloom to, ahha... For a MOSTLY organic product, for as cheap as it is, ur not gonna get much better without spendin some seriouse $$$$$(even then prolly won't be MUCH better) people under estimate FF cause its cheap and easy to use,, but I think my plants are growing about as fast they can without any added co2... and i dont feel that FF marketing is that aggressive, i mean look at companies like ADVANCED NUTRIENS, they spend more money on marketing then they do making the product, and claim 2x bigger yeilds?!?! and also charge 2x more $$!! iv never even see any advertisment for foxfarm, not in HT or any mag....but,different strokes for different folks
 

Nullis

Moderator
I personally LOVE fox farm BIgBloom, I think it's one of the best organic bases u can buy...there growbig is great too....actually I like their tiger bloom to, ahha... For a MOSTLY organic product, for as cheap as it is, ur not gonna get much better without spendin some seriouse $$$$$(even then prolly won't be MUCH better) people under estimate FF cause its cheap and easy to use,, but I think my plants are growing about as fast they can without any added co2... and i dont feel that FF marketing is that aggressive, i mean look at companies like ADVANCED NUTRIENS, they spend more money on marketing then they do making the product, and claim 2x bigger yeilds?!?! and also charge 2x more $$!! iv never even see any advertisment for foxfarm, not in HT or any mag....but,different strokes for different folks

They sell organic 'based' products (case in point Tiger Bloom) which does not mean mostly organic. Tiger Bloom for instance; it lacks organic matter, is chock-full full of nitrate nitrogen and has synthetically chelated nutrients and trace elements (EDTA). Similar story with Grow Big, and they advertise it as being all good for soil. This is somewhat deceptive, if you ask me. They're soils are never steam sterilized, which they make clear is important; touting the soil is full of life.

However, when you use Tiger Bloom and Grow Big you're doing nothing to support this life and are most likely hindering it. This is especially the case if you've added mycorrhizae (or grow in Happy Frog). Mycorrhizal fungi in particular are quite sensitive to the shit in synthetic fertilizers. It is the job of the myco to colonize the soil (which it can do much better than plant roots themselves because hyphae are much sleeker) to seek out nutrients [and water], nitrogen and phosphorous in particular, to bring back to the plant in exchange for carbon which the plant is happy to provide. Synthetic salts and EDTA make less than ideal conditions for, if not outright kill, mycorrhizae (and other beneficials). At the very least, excessive fertilization will cause myco to become lazy.

Nitrate fertilizers (calcium nitrate, ammonium nitrate, magnesium nitrate, et al.) are water soluble and have a tendency to leach right out of the rhizosphere (where nutrients are absorbed) and out of the soil. Furthermore, they'll make other beneficial bacteria lazy. For example, nitrifying bacteria which convert ammonia to nitrate, exactly when and where the plant wants it. Other bacteria fix nitrogen from the atmosphere, which results in plant available ammonia that those aforementioned nitrifyers oxidize into nitrate (some bacteria turn nitrite into nitrate, as well). Not to mention the plethora of saprophytic fungi and bacteria that are continuously decomposing organic matter into nutrients plants can use... in the rhizosphere.

And don't even get me started on the pH Up that people so frequently accompany the Tiger Bloom and Grow Big with.
 

max316420

Well-Known Member
damn dude sounds like you know plant biology quiet well, could you suggest any videos that start with the basics and go more in depth also
 

Bublonichronic

Well-Known Member
APPARENTLY, TigerBloom and GrowBig are both 80% organic....BigBloom is infact 100% organic... GrowBig Phs at 6.6, and tigerbloom pHs at 6.2-6.3 (for me, maybe max can tell us where his GrowBIg phs at)...and there are plenty of 100% chem growers with visible mycorriza, how is that? and wouldnt the FF be more accommodating to the bacteria since it is still more organic than chem nutes?

EDIT:by "base" i ment foundation of the nutrient Regimen...not "based" as in organic based
 

max316420

Well-Known Member
grow big at 6.5...... so a tad off subject but im diggin the ocean forest so far but yet im still in veg
 

max316420

Well-Known Member
So I was calibrating my ph meter and my solution is made to calibrate at 7.0 but for some reason its calibrating it to 10.0, will my meter still read the correct ph?
 

Nullis

Moderator
APPARENTLY, TigerBloom and GrowBig are both 80% organic....BigBloom is infact 100% organic... GrowBig Phs at 6.6, and tigerbloom pHs at 6.2-6.3 (for me, maybe max can tell us where his GrowBIg phs at)...and there are plenty of 100% chem growers with visible mycorriza, how is that? and wouldnt the FF be more accommodating to the bacteria since it is still more organic than chem nutes?

EDIT:by "base" i ment foundation of the nutrient Regimen...not "based" as in organic based
I used to use Tiger Bloom, still have a bottle sitting left over from a few years back as a matter of fact.
80% organic? Maybe. But what does it matter anyways when the fact is that the products (Grow Big and Tiger Bloom) do nothing for the soil/soil food web? What does it matter if something is '80% organic' if the other 20% of the ingredients are counter to the very fundamentals of organics? Point is, it isn't totally organic; it gives people the impression that '80% (or whatever) organic' is good enough. Big Bloom is the exception, and what makes it even more baffling, because it is completely organic. But what does it matter to people who don't even really know what organics is, but seem to find it appealing as a kind of buzz word? And if you find it so appealing, why not just grow completely organic?

I certainly disagree with your assertion that you can't get any better than Fox Farm's (and be totally organic) without spending a lot of money. That's a load of BS. The FF liquid trio is around $55; Earth Juice liquid organic nutrient line: Grow, Bloom, Microblast and Catalyst will run you $38-$48 depending on what size bottles you buy.

Soil is different than hydroponics. In soil micro-organisms are more prone to being dehydrated (ie, killed) by synthetic salts. Otherwise, like I said the very least is that they get lazy. Synthetic chelates are essentially a replacement for mycorrhizae in artificial grow environments; much more fertilizer is used than is actually absorbed by plants (although I would imagine recirculating systems are quite a bit more efficient).

As an organic grower I could give a fuck less what is "more accommodating than whatever"; it's about what is most accommodating to soil biota... period.

We can't really see what goes on in the rhizosphere. Without an electron microscope we can't see bacteria, we can't see how active our fungi is, we can't see the exudates that plant roots secrete to attract microbiology into the rhizosphere and it isn't clearly apparent exactly how many really good things they are doing for the plant... so truly appreciating and understanding organics is difficult for people, I get it.

As for nitrogen, I am sure different plants have different preferences. According to some research nitrate (NO3-) is more easily absorbed and also more readily utilized than ammonium. Both forms should be present, but some prefer more ammonium than nitrate and vice versa. It relates to whether a plant prefers soil dominated by bacteria (which convert ammonium to nitrate, or fungi. Not exactly sure what cannabis prefers (I don't know everything), but I do know that some organic growers start with bacterially dominated teas and then switch to fungi dominated for flower.

Ultimately, I would say it is better to let the microbes provide the form of nitrogen the plant prefers, exactly where needed, rather than apply synthetic nitrates that wont really stick around in the rhizosphere long enough to be absorbed. But I've said too much.
 

deprave

New Member
I think a lot of you hit the nail on the head in that fox farms OF is usually perfect by itself especially for a short duration container grow indoors it does very well - my only real beef with it is for longer grows with huge plants especially outdoors. If you use promix as a base you can make a great soil that keeps the plants very healthy for a long duration. OF is great but you have to admit you are counting on them that the mix is done right and also you know its going to be weaker and not last as long so in a way you are kind of half assing it, not that its bad because like others said time is money and fox farms does very well so also there is the question 'if it aint broke why fix it?'

Also if you notice promix started making a version that has extra dolomite lime in it lol - just want to say many people have had problems without putting lime in promix and this is what solved it for them - and I also want to say that while you can grow in fox farms just great without adding it that it will not do harm to add it - it could be nothing but good imo because for one thing this is organic growing not hydroponics and people seem to confuse this with an important lesson you learn in hydroponics about cal/mag which doesn't apply to this type of growing, I have added crushed dolomite lime many times to both soils without negative consequences, however, once again it is definitely something which is often unessential to do with fox farms.
 
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