Ron Paul 2012

[OregonMeds]

Mame you have a point. But now is now and then was then. We have a black president, so all that is irrelevant at this point.
Currently the federal government is way out of control and we need someone unafraid to reign it in.
I think your argument is outdated and pointless with a black man in office isn't it? I realize everything in that respect isn't perfect, in fact far from it, but just like anything else the fed puts it's hands into these days it's not making things better.
Anything it touches turns to shit.
For example no child left behind. All it's doing is dumbing down the whole system and wasting our money and putting all children behind, not uplifting anyone

 

[deprave]

@mame

sure your right, I see he would agree with you looking at the speech above its only on a few lines though, his point is the bill sucked, it gave more power to government thus taking away our freedoms, and based on that he wouldnt of voted for it, he is saying it could have been written better as a law maker and I think thats the point he is trying to make.

the main point is, how does this make him a racist? it doesn't - How does this make him a radical among the people? It doesn't really, I think most americans agree with what he said actually.

He speaks for the people no matter the political consequence for years and years, that shows courage, honesty, and integrity to me.

 

[mame]

I've already accepted he isn't actually a racist and is just more interested in protecting freedoms(when I first read about Ron Paul he struck me as a neo-conservative like Reagan - who race baited to get votes - but since I've realized he's just a libertarian), but both of you seem to support him based on the idea that the federal government is too big...

What if I was able to present a case to you showing that, under Obama, there is no massive expansion of government as many seem to believe? I mean, most of the increase in size of government spending can be attributed to the recession (higher safety net spending, like unemployment insurance, combined with lower revenue due to recession) and not an actual expansion of government? I mean, in normal times compared to most countries our government is among the smallest. I mean, being a part of the left isn't about socialism. Using myself as an example, I believe in limited government... it's just my idea of limited isn't the same as yours (I can expand on this later, leaving work atm).

 

[Charlie Ventura]

and what would you do to prevent oligarchy? Money is power as they say.

Also, I've talked quite a few times about incentive to work - the French for example, are just as likely to work at prime age as Americans, although they work less hours overall. I dont buy the "incentive to work is diminished" until you start talking 50, 60+ percent effective tax rates (which isn't ever going to happen again anyway so it's moot).

Say I make $300 a week and lose $100 in taxes. If I could make $1000 a week and payed $500 in taxes, I'm still in a better position overall than if I was making $300 a week... That's plenty of incentive. If I made $1000 a week and payed $800 in taxes, well then obviously it feels pointless - but we aren't anywhere near that point

.

And your post is exactly what is wrong with the progressive tax system. It isn't the job of government to manipulate the citizen or even to consider "incentives," unless one believes in an Orwellian society. Today, 40% of Americans pay no income taxes at all. They are not contributing to the system, only taking out of the system. This allows the government to grow ever more powerful at the expense of liberty. Also, with the income tax in general, the tax is upon labor. That part of labor taxed, is a tax on property (self). So the question to ask, mame, is who owns you? A tax on labor is a slave tax. An excise (sales) tax is a tax on consumption (the F.A.I.R.) tax. Everyone should be responsible to pay taxes and the taxes should be up front, right where we can see them. If everyone were responsible for paying taxes the federal government would be reigned in to its proper size. Think about it; when all citizens are paying taxes, plenty of questions will be asked about where all the money is going. The way it is now, 40% of the population needs to ask no questions at all. Do you honestly believe that how much money a citizen makes, how the citizen makes it or spends it is the business of government as long as the citizen doesn't violate the rights of another citizen in the process? What say you, mame?

 

[deprave]

I've already accepted he isn't actually a racist and is just more interested in protecting freedoms(when I first read about Ron Paul he struck me as a neo-conservative like Reagan - who race baited to get votes - but since I've realized he's just a libertarian), but both of you seem to support him based on the idea that the federal government is too big...

What if I was able to present a case to you showing that, under Obama, there is no massive expansion of government as many seem to believe? I mean, most of the increase in size of government spending can be attributed to the recession (higher safety net spending, like unemployment insurance, combined with lower revenue due to recession) and not an actual expansion of government? I mean, in normal times compared to most countries our government is among the smallest. I mean, being a part of the left isn't about socialism. Using myself as an example, I believe in limited government... it's just my idea of limited isn't the same as yours (I can expand on this later, leaving work atm).

I don't think you could ever convince me of that, look at just about every single law that passed they almost all expand the goverments power and are full of bureaucratic non-sense. In order to get the smallest thing done they have to fullfill like 15 favors and use backroom deals. I.E. "Hey look we passed healthcare" little extreme example but its kind of like - o by the way we passed healthcare but cornhusker kickback, grey wolves added to endangered species list, hunting/fishing restrictions, carbon tax, education cuts, unions lose rights, its mandatory, and oh yeah JP Morgan heres 6 trillion dollars.....

but its not just that no - Obama staff - filled with wall street people - Obama = Wall Street Puppet. Bankers do what they want and they rule the world, free to loot and plunder. Corporate Plunder and Corruption(criminals), Obama is very much a part of and supports this, he does not stand by the people on "main street" as he put it - he stands by wall street.

If we elect Ron Paul his veto stamp is going to be on fire, stopping these criminals in their tracks left and right, hes going to need a big ass truck load of stamps to strike down all their bullshit. Ron Paul will murder the bureaucratic nonsense.

 

[OregonMeds]

I'm sure you may have many little examples of obama cutting the fed in some insigificant way or another, but aside from the stimulus package which cost us way more than bush and clearly isn't working he is still getting us deeper into wars, into libya and now japan (humanitarian aid is expensive right or wrong and we aren't even taking care of our own humanitarian aid needed in this country), here's the ultimate kicker from wikipedia on our federal deficit since obama:

Gross debt has increased over $500 billion each year since fiscal year (FY) 2003, with increases of $1 trillion in FY2008, $1.9 trillion in FY2009, and $1.7 trillion in FY2010.[7] Together with the budget deficit, this debt was one of the reasons given by Standard & Poor's to downgrade the United States' credit outlook to "negative" on April 18, 2011.[8]

That means it doubled since bush, then quadrupled and keeps on going. We will be over 15 trillion dollars in debt by the end of this year. That's more than the entire GDP of the coutry for a whole year and GDP is as it says GROSS, not NET profit. We'd have to go communist and give all profit for many many years to ever pay it off, but we still keep raising the debt limit and devaluing the currency and increasing spending over all.

 

[gottit14]

Ron paul will fall off a podium trying to make a speech with how old a rikkity he is, ron paul will never be president get over it

 

[mame]

And your post is exactly what is wrong with the progressive tax system. It isn't the job of government to manipulate the citizen or even to consider "incentives," unless one believes in an Orwellian society. Today, 40% of Americans pay no income taxes at all. They are not contributing to the system, only taking out of the system. This allows the government to grow ever more powerful at the expense of liberty.

I disagree with this sentiment, while you do have the stat right - your argument that most people aren't contributing is flat out inaccurate... Just because 40% of Americans pay no federal income taxes doesn't mean they don't contribute. There are plenty of other taxes that the poor pay(example: sales tax)... I'm taxed(effectively) for close to 1/3rd of my income... Why should a corporation be taxed any less(12-17% effective tax rates on average), especially considering the Supreme court says corporations are people too(citizens united case)?

Also, with the income tax in general, the tax is upon labor. That part of labor taxed, is a tax on property (self). So the question to ask, mame, is who owns you? A tax on labor is a slave tax. An excise (sales) tax is a tax on consumption (the F.A.I.R.) tax. Everyone should be responsible to pay taxes and the taxes should be up front, right where we can see them. If everyone were responsible for paying taxes the federal government would be reigned in to its proper size. Think about it; when all citizens are paying taxes, plenty of questions will be asked about where all the money is going. The way it is now, 40% of the population needs to ask no questions at all. Do you honestly believe that how much money a citizen makes, how the citizen makes it or spends it is the business of government as long as the citizen doesn't violate the rights of another citizen in the process? What say you, mame?

Taxing labor is no different than taxing any other good or service. It is an asset and therefore eligible for taxation. It's not slavery either, especially considering you do get something in return, however ungrateful you are for said return on investment(you know, schools... roads... law enforcement, etc etc).

Tell me, what is the "proper size" of government to you? Consider this:

What this basically shows is that since 2007 revenue per capita has decreased, spending on social security and medicaid has increased (which is not an increase in the size of government... baby bloomers blah blah), and "other spending" has increased.

Now, what is the "other spending"? Mostly, it was bailouts, unemployment insurance and whatnot - that much is true - but that's not an increase in the size of government either. Government was merely trying fulfilling it's role in fighting depression periods. Sure, the healthcare bill was passed but overall it accounts for very little of government spending.

Government spending as a whole went from 19.6% in 2007 to 23.6% in 2010. As I've pointed out, half of this increase is from loss in revenue. Of the other half, more than half of it can be attributed to our current social safety net problem stemming from rising medical costs and the baby boomer generation... the rest? The rest of the spending - accounting for less than a quarter of the overall increase of the size of government relative to GDP - was mostly spent on the recession. Where is all the bureaucracy?

 

[deprave]

the proper size is one that doest have a patroit act, a tsa, and follows the constitution and other laws, doesn't tax everything including the air we breathe, one that stays out of our lives and lets us be free people, one that allows us to profit off our own labor and the land. WTF does your chart mean when they are sticking their fingers litterly up our babies butts, feeling up our girlfriends, and grabbing our balls while they kick down our doors without warrants, not shit.

When you sacrifice liberty for security you get NEITHER! (paraphrase ben franklin)

If you support obama, you support all of the above, you sicken me and your un-american. WTF are you a daytrader or something?

Just today in Indiana they have abolished the 4th amendment to allow for warrant less raids on homes. (http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_ec169697-a19e-525f-a532-81b3df229697.html)

Btw lets see that graph with a bar next to it representing so called defense spending and see what it looks like , you couldnt even see the other bars.

 

[mame]

If you support obama, you support all of the above, you sicken me and your un-american. WTF are you a daytrader or something?

Real amazing statement there yo, really elevates the discussion.

BTW, there are plenty of the things you listed that I don't necessarily agree with but Obama is still the best choice IMO.

 

[OregonMeds]

The best choice for what reason? After all the lies and bad bills and furthering war spending and TSA and etc etc, why oh why is he a good choice for anything please explain.

I see you buy into the bullshit about Social Security being a problem. Why would it be a problem sir, except for possibly bad management of the fund allowed by bad government in the first place. This is not money that comes out of your pocket to pay for your parents, this is money your parents were taxed all their lives for, it is all prepaid and should have grown over their entire lifetime to support them at retirement and now we are supposed to buy into the idea that it's the cause of all our problems?

And of all things that shouldn't be profit based, healthcare is number one. It should be a public service, just as we give humanitarian aid to every other country in the world yet can't help our own senior citizens. And I don't mean that I support the profit based obamacare mandatory health insurance system that uses the same profit based hospitals that charge $500 for a half hour visit and a band aid, and pharma companies that charge $500 a day or more for many drugs people need just to stay alive like cancer and AIDS drugs. It's the medical system that's the problem, not the people using it.

If we as individuals had stashed away all the money we paid into social security all our lives we would be fine, provided we hadn't bet that money on something stupid in the stock market or hadn't spent that money elsewhere which shouldn't have been legal to do in the first place.

Obama and the rest of the establishment has us still borrowing and paying interest on money that doesn't exist, from banks that can just make it up out of thin air, to charge interests on non existant money while also still devaluing the currency on purpose. And when it falls apart we bail those banks out only to borrow the money again with interest? Nobody really gets how that works but do you really want to stick with that plan?

 

[deprave]

Real amazing statement there yo, really elevates the discussion.

BTW, there are plenty of the things you listed that I don't necessarily agree with but Obama is still the best choice IMO.

sorry I just got angry that someone really supports obama ya know, its very frustrating, he could be the best choice I guess if its him vs herman cain or some necon which it probably will be, but what a sad choice really, I am voting for Ron Paul regardless, there is no way I am voting for a corporate puppet, This is why I ask if you are a day trader lol - as the weiner said recently vote for something because its what is right:

[video=youtube;GFNtzrHRsso]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFNtzrHRsso&feature=channel_video_title[/video]

Vote Ron Paul 2012 - Vote for Humantarian reasons, for the economy, for liberty and freedom, the American Dream - Vote for the People not Wall Street - Our Voice - Our United States of America, Our Constitution, Our Land, Our Money.

 

[deprave]

another new ron paul interview on msnbc again they break out the guns and start shooting - this time vs the prosecutor himself - dun dun dun - this heavy hittin brown noser is sure to make Ron Paul look bad right?


[video=youtube;DrDLrS_ZzOA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrDLrS_ZzOA[/video]


Wrong.


The Judge rules on this case:

[video=youtube;Bm_vRxttA5w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm_vRxttA5w[/video]

Case Closed

Ron Paul 2012 or headbutt a knife.


[video=youtube;Hx_rCHbt34M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx_rCHbt34M[/video]



RON PAUL REVOLUTION!

 

[deprave]

New ron paul promotional videos and images for today (unofficial)

[video=youtube;yaXf3wJWGGg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaXf3wJWGGg[/video]

[video=youtube;UBngrfL0B6U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBngrfL0B6U[/video]

 

[deprave]

Fox gets more aggressive and calls him a democrat buahhahaha: (warning propaganda and media spin)

[video=youtube;lNcKbWK0o0U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNcKbWK0o0U[/video]

Don't you just love these dumbass propaganda round tables or whatever the hell they are?

so hes awesome but he is against the war? FAIL

Ron Paul is so ----- #Wining -----

Lets take a look at the score at 5 seconds in to the first Quarter:
Main Stream Media 0
Ron Paul 70

 

[OregonMeds]

Sheeple will see that and not vote for him. You know they're going to buy every word hook line and sinker. They say he wants to legalize herion, not that he wants to stop the drug war.. That one screen at 2:18 where it says he "opposes traditional marriage" in the column of things he opposes is a real winner. Just as fair and balanced as always.

 

[Windsblow]

ROFL who do you think would have a better idea about racism ...too easy...like me telling a woman having a baby is easy..for now on Windsblow enjoy my new answer to you...OBAMA 2012.....Ron paul won't even get the nod...blame that on the Repukes

Thats a pathetic statement and tells all lot about what kind of mind you have. I really do feel sorry for people that have this type of mentality

Racism really doesn't exist on a systemic level anymore. Bigotry does but "Racist" is a word that is used incorrectly by people who want to stir up shit but have no real philosophic and intellectual fortuity.

 

[deprave]

The Prosecutor Failed - The Facist Round Table Failed - The Judge Ruled - Now They send in the big guns, the brown noser of brown nosers - with his wig glistening in the studio lights the makeup is on, the gloves are off, its time to get physical :

new ron paul interview this morning on fox again, touches on prohibition, fema, and more:


DING DING DING ROUND 1 FIGHT

[video=youtube;VoNIq0_NVAU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoNIq0_NVAU[/video]
FINISH HIM

[video=youtube;6bGcGqG1QCw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bGcGqG1QCw[/video]

FATALITY




RON PAUL WINS

 

[londonfog]

Thats a pathetic statement and tells all lot about what kind of mind you have. I really do feel sorry for people that have this type of mentality

Racism really doesn't exist on a systemic level anymore. Bigotry does but "Racist" is a word that is used incorrectly by people who want to stir up shit but have no real philosophic and intellectual fortuity.

Buddy it would be a wasted emotion to feel sorry for me...My life is great ...does not really matter who the POTUS is.. my Laundromats will continue to make me money...Now what I do find funny is when white folks TRY to tell me about racism or racist not existing anymore in America....WTF...again its like me trying to tell a women how it feels to have a baby growing in the womb,but as a man I cannot truly know..I know whats the difference between a bigot and a racist...and given the position and opportunity a bigot can and will be a racist so you lost when you try to separate the two..
again Ron Paul's view on the civil rights vote of 64 keeps me saying HELL NO...but no worries because he will never get the nod for the general election..

 

[Carthoris]

Buddy it would be a wasted emotion to feel sorry for me...My life is great ...does not really matter who the POTUS is.. my Laundromats will continue to make me money...Now what I do find funny is when white folks TRY to tell me about racism or racist not existing anymore in America....WTF...again its like me trying to tell a women how it feels to have a baby growing in the womb,but as a man I cannot truly know..I know whats the difference between a bigot and a racist...and given the position and opportunity a bigot can and will be a racist so you lost when you try to separate the two..
again Ron Paul's view on the civil rights vote of 64 keeps me saying HELL NO...but no worries because he will never get the nod for the general election..

Heres a question: Why do you feel marijuana should be legal? I will never understand why someone who smokes pot and understands that making marijuana illegal is wrong because the government shouldn't be telling you what to do with your body, mind, and money will the next moment turn around and tell you that on another issue the government should tell you what to do with your body, mind, and money. How can you not see yourself as a hypocrite?

My Point: Ron Paul is not a hypocrite. He applies freedom, liberty, and the constitution to every situation - without fail - even when it is something that he personally disagrees with. He doesn't want to do heroin and I don't think he would ever suggest it was the right thing to do, but I think that video clip that was posted earlier shows his character.

As humans we are judgmental in so many ways. There is not one among us who can truly not judge people the moment we meet them. The most enlightened ones are the ones who realize that accepting people as they are regardless of their own personal feelings on their lifestyles. Ron Paul is one of those people. This is why Ron Paul is fit to lead the United States in these stormy times. Not just to keep us moving but to really remove the chains of government oppression, and allow people to be who they are.

Consider that slavery is when you work for someone else without pay. When are taxes to be considered slavery? 50%? 75%? 100% is surely slavery. Is 99%? Where do you draw the line?