Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
Looks great man, I have 4 jacks coming down this next week. They didn't produce well, but damn they look amazing. I'll keep it around for some personal. :P I also had a pretty interesting discussion with my grow store buddy about Canna and BioCanna. The Canna rep was in and my buddy had asked him some questions that I had bombarded him with, basically asking why customers (*read me) are having so many problems with early nitrogen deficiency in early flowering, and basically what the guy said was that the BioVega is having problems and they actually recommend that people use Terra Vega for the Veg and then go to Bio Flores for the Flowering cycle because the Vega is highly lacking in Nitrogen and you have deficiency problems because the plant does not have enough Nitrogen to store, so when you flip it to flowering, an already deficient plant is looking for Nitrogen that isn't there. I found this interesting and a lot of things became clearer after I talked to my buddy. I am going in tomorrow to see if I can catch the guy while he is there again to talk to him personally about the BioCanna line.

I have tried to get in contact with Canna about the BioCanna line and the last time I checked they were not accepting questions... If my end product hadn't turned out good, I probably would have dropped Canna based on Customer service alone. The answers I have gotten from them in the past have been vague and not generally useful.

I guess I'll be adding some Nature's Nectar Nitrogen to my veg line up. It was pretty interesting because lately I have been having 2 problems. My plants were Nitrogen deficient, but they looked on the verge of nutrient burn also. I upped my Vega to counteract the Nitrogen deficiency, but started to push the levels of my Potassium and Phosphorus which cause the mottled spots on the leaves that looked like they were about to burn. It was pretty interesting to hear that stuff today though. Hopefully I'll be able to catch this so called "Canna Rep." I thought that this elusive species was all but extinct. I was beginning to think that Ralph B. was the only person that worked at Canna, lol.
 

RPsmoke420

Active Member
Some solid info there. I remember hearing that the BioCanna line is intentionally low on specific nutrients that are supposed to be found in their BioTerra Plus soil. But because that soil is not available for the most part.... you are left with deficiencies. I also have to run different amounts of nitrogen from Nature's Nectar. The more I think about it, the more I just want to go back to making simple soils, and watering with compost teas and such. Kinda over these "organic" bottled nutes... maybe going back to something more simple... just toking and typing
 

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
I feel you man, I think about just going to Super Soil all the time, lol. I do like being able to tweak my nutrients and add what I want, its just a matter of figuring out how much to use and when, I'll get there. lol
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Or use an OMRI Nitrogen supplement with the Biocanna Vega... that's what we have been doing all along. Canna Terra... while that will work incredibly well, is far from vegan or organic. Ive also been upping slow release Nitrogen in the form of Neem Cake and a mixed vegan meal.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
a little bird told me kushman's veganic veg forumla is going to be ready for testing this week.

KK's movie is almost ready, and the book is in editing stages. this week Ava Rize is coming out to read thru with us.

And I'm teaching at organicann this saturday 11-1 if anyone is around. Rize up!
 

beeznutz

Active Member
Looks great man, I have 4 jacks coming down this next week. They didn't produce well, but damn they look amazing. I'll keep it around for some personal. :P I also had a pretty interesting discussion with my grow store buddy about Canna and BioCanna. The Canna rep was in and my buddy had asked him some questions that I had bombarded him with, basically asking why customers (*read me) are having so many problems with early nitrogen deficiency in early flowering, and basically what the guy said was that the BioVega is having problems and they actually recommend that people use Terra Vega for the Veg and then go to Bio Flores for the Flowering cycle because the Vega is highly lacking in Nitrogen and you have deficiency problems because the plant does not have enough Nitrogen to store, so when you flip it to flowering, an already deficient plant is looking for Nitrogen that isn't there. I found this interesting and a lot of things became clearer after I talked to my buddy. I am going in tomorrow to see if I can catch the guy while he is there again to talk to him personally about the BioCanna line.

I have tried to get in contact with Canna about the BioCanna line and the last time I checked they were not accepting questions... If my end product hadn't turned out good, I probably would have dropped Canna based on Customer service alone. The answers I have gotten from them in the past have been vague and not generally useful.

I guess I'll be adding some Nature's Nectar Nitrogen to my veg line up. It was pretty interesting because lately I have been having 2 problems. My plants were Nitrogen deficient, but they looked on the verge of nutrient burn also. I upped my Vega to counteract the Nitrogen deficiency, but started to push the levels of my Potassium and Phosphorus which cause the mottled spots on the leaves that looked like they were about to burn. It was pretty interesting to hear that stuff today though. Hopefully I'll be able to catch this so called "Canna Rep." I thought that this elusive species was all but extinct. I was beginning to think that Ralph B. was the only person that worked at Canna, lol.

ur not alone.... i had the same problem with GO GROW and ended up adding NN Nitrogen- did the trick.
don really have a prob with nutes being on the low end of food because u can always add some extra,
depending on ur set up and strain. ideally we all b buying a product that has the perfect ratio but let's face it,
everybody has his/her own way of growing not to mention the explosion of strains which requires careful attention
if you want to nail it down.
im running out of nutes and ill b ordering Bio Canna line of food, wanna give it a try and see how it does in my set up.
bout a month away from finishing this crop, super haze+mr. nice [not the seed co, some private strain i got my hands on].
 

beeznutz

Active Member
a little bird told me kushman's veganic veg forumla is going to be ready for testing this week.

KK's movie is almost ready, and the book is in editing stages.
ohh shite! is he going the full 9yds? commercially available? that'll b interesting....any inside u wanna spill?? ;-)
 
Any thoughts on Vermicrop's Coconot instead of Bio Terra Plus?

As that seems to be available at my local shop and looks like a good substitute but no one I know has any experience with it.
 

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
I feel you man, I think about just going to Super Soil all the time, lol. I do like being able to tweak my nutrients and add what I want, its just a matter of figuring out how much to use and when, I'll get there. lol
Meet in the middle. That's what I'm doing now, running about a 30% strength super soil (my own recipe) and feeding with General Organics full line (excluding the fish) at close to full strength along with a few other additives. It's great. I give straight water once a week, and for the final week, it's going beautifully. The colors and flavors I get in that last week are really amazing. I am having a few issues with my Super Silver Haze (Neville's Haze pheno), but this is my first run with it so it's somewhat to be expected. The biggest advantage for me is that I don't have to feed during veg at all, just innoculants and some kelp.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
ohh shite! is he going the full 9yds? commercially available? that'll b interesting....any inside u wanna spill?? ;-)
He's going for a stronger version of the current line up for veganic nutes (bio bizz, general organics, biocanna). As we have seen, they are lacking in either N, or P or Ca, or whatever. I don't know much really, I'm not involved by choice. I'm going the opposite direction with more: compost, worm castings, and plant meals/cakes. More DIY fermented plant extracts, ie making my own nutes from scratch.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Any thoughts on Vermicrop's Coconot instead of Bio Terra Plus?

As that seems to be available at my local shop and looks like a good substitute but no one I know has any experience with it.
I tried it, hated it. KK likes it, I'm not sure how that works but whatever.
 

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
Meet in the middle. That's what I'm doing now, running about a 30% strength super soil (my own recipe) and feeding with General Organics full line (excluding the fish) at close to full strength along with a few other additives. It's great. I give straight water once a week, and for the final week, it's going beautifully. The colors and flavors I get in that last week are really amazing. I am having a few issues with my Super Silver Haze (Neville's Haze pheno), but this is my first run with it so it's somewhat to be expected. The biggest advantage for me is that I don't have to feed during veg at all, just innoculants and some kelp.
Ya this is what I am working towards, I find the more time I spend with my set up, the more holes I see in my grow, which I then move to fill. Gaining valuable experience in organic farming. It is a pain to learn the hard way, but all things worth knowing take time. :) Lesson 1.) Calcium, adding lime to soil now. Lesson 2.) Nitrogen, I'll start adding some Cottonseed Meal or Worm Castings to the mix. What kind of amendment dosage would you recommend to start? I typically start plants in 1gal pots and then transfer into 7-20 Gallon pots.
 

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
There was something else that I have been kicking around. I know that I am not the sharpest tool in the box, I am quite blunt, lol. So bear with me if this seems elementary to you. I have had a few issues I have been addressing, the first of which was the Nitrogen, but my plants that I just flipped to flowering are showing Phosphorus deficiency also. I am thinking that this is because the plant is craving a lot more P and K going into flowering and I'm not really adding any Flores until week 2-3. My only source of P/K would be Bio Bud until Flores is introduced, and BioBud doesn't have a lot of P in it anyways. Looking at the chart and after talking with my buddy about what the Canna guy said, I have been thinking that as soon as I flip, I should just switch to Flores and keep supplementing with NN Nitrogen until around week 4 of flowering, to address the Nitrogen issues, but to also eliminate the P def. Does this sound like I am on the right track?
 

Wolverine97

Well-Known Member
There was something else that I have been kicking around. I know that I am not the sharpest tool in the box, I am quite blunt, lol. So bear with me if this seems elementary to you. I have had a few issues I have been addressing, the first of which was the Nitrogen, but my plants that I just flipped to flowering are showing Phosphorus deficiency also. I am thinking that this is because the plant is craving a lot more P and K going into flowering and I'm not really adding any Flores until week 2-3. My only source of P/K would be Bio Bud until Flores is introduced, and BioBud doesn't have a lot of P in it anyways. Looking at the chart and after talking with my buddy about what the Canna guy said, I have been thinking that as soon as I flip, I should just switch to Flores and keep supplementing with NN Nitrogen until around week 4 of flowering, to address the Nitrogen issues, but to also eliminate the P def. Does this sound like I am on the right track?
I'd say yes, you're on the right track, but I don't rely on the Bio Bud to provide any actual nutrient value. I start with bloom food as soon as I switch to 12/12, but I also give them a little extra nitrogen during the first three weeks of flowering. Sounds like you're getting there...
 

Da Almighty Jew

Well-Known Member
Hey Matt, yea i have a few test plants that i would like to make some fermented plant extracts with.
How would i go about doing that?
Do you think i should put it in my aerated compost tea.
IMO i think that the leaves should have an adequate supply of npk and all other micro and tracebongsmilie:weed::leaf::leaf::leaf:
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Hey Matt, yea i have a few test plants that i would like to make some fermented plant extracts with.
How would i go about doing that?
Do you think i should put it in my aerated compost tea.
IMO i think that the leaves should have an adequate supply of npk and all other micro and tracebongsmilie:weed::leaf::leaf::leaf:
I'm not the fermenting expert. I do know that FPEs are not added to teas usually. And what plants, and which parts of those certain plants is very important. I'll try to find some good info. There is a thread here on russian comfrey FPR by spanish fly. that would be a good place to start.
 
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