The Truth About Ron Paul

[mame]

Only the quality will be reduced. Ironically, by introducing government into the equation, costs will continue to rise.

No matter how many times you say this it wont change the fact that you have no proof of this. Countries with universal care beat us out in overall quality and accessibility... Why is that so hard to admit?

Also, you keep pointing to the ability of the rich to buy whatever care they want as a strength of the U.S. system but what about Obamacare is stopping the rich from buying this better care? The HC reform law doesn't say that you can't buy better insurance it just says that you have to have some sort of policy. If you want better care, it's still available.

 

[NoDrama]

The important thing to realize is that the CBO recognizes trends sort of like a weatherman. Just because the weatherman said the high would be 66 and it was 64 doesn't mean you should stop listening to what the weatherman has to say...

The CBO has actually been close several times. Off the top of my head I can remember, for example, that when examining medicare part D they were able to estimate costs so closely that the only reason their numbers were even remotely off was that less people used the benefit than they thought - resulting in less costs than originally projected; Their cost per person measure was almost spot on though, which was the most important part of their calculations... I am not, however, going to sit here going through case by case examples.

You see, it's like you ignore my argument completely. If other advanced nations pay half as much as we do, and it's not because we have any major differences in our health (our higher obesity rate, for example, accounts for ~ 1/30th of the extra costs we pay... so not much), what do you want me to believe it is? Is there a possibility that extra costs might have something to do with the fact that our system is not universal like all of those other advanced nations?

The Medicare Program: When Medicare was instituted in 1965, there was no Congressional Budget Office. Instead, in 1967 House Ways and Means analysts estimated the cost of the program. Medicare, they predicted, would cost $12 billion in 1990. (1) They were wrong—by a staggering factor of 10. The actual spending in 1990 was $110 billion. (2) And Medicare costs continue to skyrocket. Through the first 9 months of 2009, Medicare has cost taxpayers $314 billion and that price tag continues to grow by 10%.

Medicare Part A: In 1965, the House Ways and Means Committee estimated that Medicare Part A, the hospital insurance part of the Medicare program, would cost $9 billion in 1990. (4) Once again, they were wrong. The actual cost of Part A in 1990 was $67 billion. (5) In 1994, the analyst responsible for the severe underestimate admitted that even when accounting for inflation, “the actual [Part A] experience was 165% higher than the estimate.

Medicare Home Care Benefit: In 1988, the projected 1993 cost of the Medicare Home Care Benefit was $4 billion. (7) The actual 1993 cost was $10 billion.

Social Security: When the Social Security Act of 1935 was being debated in Congress, the cost projections for the program extended all the way to 1980. At that time, it was estimated that the federal government would pay out $4 billion in Social Security payments in 1980. (9) In reality it paid out a staggering $108 billion.

End Stage Renal Disease (ESRD) Program: Congress passed entitlement legislation that provided kidney dialysis for citizens suffering from ESRD in 1972. It was predicted that the program would cost taxpayers $100 million in 1974.11 The estimates were off and the program ended up costing $229 million in that year.

The Medicaid Disproportionate Share Hospital (DHS) Program: The Medicaid DHS Program is used by states to aid hospitals that treat a high number of Medicaid and uninsured patients. In 1987, Congress estimated that the cost the program would be $1 billion in 1992.13 The actual cost was 17 times larger than the congressional estimate. Medicaid DHS cost taxpayers $17 billion in 1992.

Exactly 10 years ago, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office issued a report projecting that, in 2010, the federal government would run a $796 billion surplus. In reality, 2010 produced a $1.3 trillion deficit.

Mame, you trust the people who are consistently WRONG, which only means that you will be consistently WRONG.

With the track record the CBO has they should have been dismantled and shut down years ago after they proved themselves incompetent over and over again.

Mame? Do you trust the weatherman when everyday he says its going to be warm and sunny, but every day it is rainy and cold, then one day it is sunny and warm and you think the weatherman is a accurate predictor of the weather?

 

[Johnnyorganic]

Also, thanks for jumping in UB... I was starting to feel like Donnie Yen when he fought all those blackbelts at once LOL:
[video=youtube;SXXEnDLShz0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXXEnDLShz0[/video]

That's awesome!

Well, you're in luck, mame, because I have to unplug for a while.

I have two certification exams to study for that have a drop-dead date. So I must hit the books. Plus I have a sixer of Shiner Bock icing down that I cannot touch until the day's study is complete.

See ya'll in few hours.

 

[UncleBuck]

Buck, you are addressing two separate topics.

We do have the best health CARE in the world. That's one reason why it is so expensive. By law, no one can be turned away.

As far as health INSURANCE is concerned: WHO GIVES A FAT RAT'S ASS?

Want health insurance? Buy it. Or move to state that offers it for 'free.'

But, do not force me to pay for it for you.

what states offer it for free?

and yes, people do get turned away. see jan brewer's death panels.

health care and health care insurance are inextricably linked.

 

[UncleBuck]

Exactly 10 years ago, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office issued a report projecting that, in 2010, the federal government would run a $796 billion surplus. In reality, 2010 produced a $1.3 trillion deficit.

they probably had no idea a madman would lead us into two wars using "emergency funding", reduce revenues with his tax cuts, make a huge giveaway to big pharma, and crash our economy through reckless deregulation.

other than that, sounds about right.

 

[NoDrama]

they probably had no idea a madman would lead us into two wars using "emergency funding", reduce revenues with his tax cuts, make a huge giveaway to big pharma, and crash our economy through reckless deregulation.

other than that, sounds about right.

You are talking about Obama right?

 

[UncleBuck]

Plus I have a sixer of Shiner Bock icing down that I cannot touch until the day's study is complete.

atta boy!

hit those books. i'll head out to home depot to buy a hose and price out greenhouse materials.

we will meet back on the field of battle to resume the nation's business in a few hours.

 

[UncleBuck]

You are talking about Obama right?

although obama does run huge deficits, i harbor little doubts that your budget would be much better in the face of the issues our nation faced in january 2009.

 

[NoDrama]

BTW it was Congress that deregulated the market, Presidents do not have that power. me thinks your animosity is a bit misplaced.

 

[deprave]

what states offer it for free?

There is plenty of places to get free healthcare or cheap healthcare in michigan and they are available to everyone without insurance or medicaid/medicare.

 

[mame]

BTW it was Congress that deregulated the market, Presidents do not have that power. me thinks your animosity is a bit misplaced.

It doesn't matter who did it, it was still a terrible idea.

Okay, so lets assume the CBO is a terrible source of information... Does that change anything I said about the HC bill? There is empirical evidence suggesting that policies from Obamacare will "bend the curve". How about this, prove that statement wrong... Prove to me that universal care does not lower costs. Can you?

 

[deprave]

CNN Polls - Ron in 2nd and 3rd!

• Ron Paul 2012

Front on Drudge Report: Ron Paul places second in NH...
LAKE JACKSON, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--As the 2012 GOP Presidential field begins to take shape, recent polling shows Congressman Ron Paul emerging a top-tier candidate and a credible threat to unseat assumed front runner Mitt Romney.
A recent number of polls on the race for the Republican presidential nomination have consistently shown Dr. Paul surging and in many cases running a clear second.
In the latest Gallup poll from May 26, 2011, Ron Paul comes in second, ahead of all other declared candidates for the Republican presidential nomination. In New Hampshire's most recent UNH Survey Center poll, Paul again scores second place ahead of all others officially in the race. And once again in the most recent CNN poll, Congressman Paul ties for second place versus all other announced candidates...
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110527005736/en/Camp...
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/05/27/rel9a.pdf






New vids about Ron Paul today

Infowars talks about ron's speech from the other day, the speech is being labeled 'the fall of the republic' or 'last nail in the coffin'
[video=youtube;fvZB_d3cnZc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvZB_d3cnZc[/video]


Tom woods -
Thought Controllers Call Ron Paul "Extreme"
Tom Woods looks at Mother Jones magazine's super-scary list of "Ron Paul's 15 Most Extreme Positions."

[video=youtube;9FFhSr1A1do]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FFhSr1A1do[/video]

 

[GayRioThug]

Someone please explain to me how supporting the constitution is radical? I saw a lot of, "Without government regulations, the corporations would take us over". What a sad interpretation of free-market economics. Ron Paul is the biggest opponent to corporatism. You lack the basic understanding of free-market economics. It's simple stuff people.

We practice capitalism every day. When we make a purchase, we are choosing a service. That is capitalism at work. When government regulations and mandates are put in place, it impedes the market, causing prices to go up, and causing the poor to suffer the most.
The socialist doctrine is a strong proponent of "service for a service". And I absolutely agree, but socialism does not permit that. You can not claim "service for a service" when it has been perpatrated unwillingly. Capitalism allows everybody the chance to barter for services; determine the selling/purchasing cost, weigh your options, and make a decision. If something is too expensive, you have the ability to look for the service from another source. Socialism mandates that you will receive "this service", for "this price", regardless of whether or not the producer/consumer agree. Socialism takes away choice. Government regulations and mandates in any form is an assault on our economical freedom. The government has no right to steal money from citizens, redistribute wealth, dictate financial policies, and create fiat money with no backing. The government is not allowed to do anything the citizens couldn't do, so why have we legalized theft? Wake up people.

 

[deprave]

Ron Paul will campaign in Mason City on Tuesday during his fourth visit to Iowa in as many weeks.
The Texas Republican is running for president for the third time. He will meet people at noon at the Rose Bowl bowling center at 4173 South Federal Ave. in Mason City.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20110528/NEWS09/105280324/Iowa-Politics-Insider-Ron-Paul-to-head-for-Mason-City

CNN Poll

29% have never heard of Ron Paul and 14% have no opinion. These are the people we are going to have to help reach to get him elected. 40-45% of Americans don't vote, most of which are due to apathy.

 

[GayRioThug]

When people understand where Dr. Paul is coming from and how he has done nothing but fight for the constitution, they will have no choice but to wake up. The truth is simple.

 

[deprave]

Ron Paul's Call to Donation Arms- June 5th Money Bomb!

• Ron Paul 2012

Ron Paul has over 375,000 followers on Facebook, and likely thousands more supporters across the country. How can we ensure the maximum participation possible in the June 5th Money Bomb? If we got even 1/3rd of his Facebook followers to pitch in, we would raise millions!
From Dr. Paul:
Ten Million Dollars.
That's how much establishment candidate Mitt Romney raised in one day a couple of weeks ago from well-heeled party bigwigs for his 2012 White House bid.
So today, I'm writing to personally ask if you are up for a challenge.
My campaign's grassroots supporters are holding another Money Bomb next Sunday, June 5th, and I believe it offers us an excellent chance to make some headlines of our own.
You see, the Romney campaign thinks no one else can touch their accomplishment.
But honestly, I don't need 10 million dollars to match Mitt Romney.
After all, I don't have to defend a liberal record as governor of Massachusetts.
I don't have to defend against passing a bill just as bad as ObamaCare. Mitt Romney does. So it's ok if he has a bit more money than we do.
He's going to need it!
But it is absolutely critical I have the financial backing to build a first-class operation in early caucus and primary states and show the pundits and press that I am a serious candidate.
I know these so-called "gate keepers" are part of the Washington problem, but the fact is their either dismissing of candidates or praising them makes a difference to many undecided voters.
An overwhelming showing on June 5th would force the establishment pundits to realize you and I are in this to win it!
So please, visit www.RonPaul2012.com on June 5th and contribute whatever you are able. I know times are tough, but each and every dollar will go toward implementing our plans to run a first-class, winning campaign to restore America now.
Support for my Presidential campaign is growing every day, and I'm hopeful that we are in time to save America, rebuild our economy, and hand our children an even better country than the one we inherited.
And on June 5th, we can demonstrate the strength of support for our freedom message.
If you can help my campaign really take off now with a contribution at www.RonPaul2012.com on June 5th, I'd certainly appreciate it.
Your donation will allow us to ramp up our efforts in all the key primary states right away. That's why political experts say that $1 now is worth as much as $5 later on.
And it would prove that our campaign doesn't need fat cat bankers and rich elitists to compete.
When our R3VOLUTION comes together, there is no limit to what we can accomplish, and it is a great source of encouragement to know I can count on you.
Thank you for all your support!
For Liberty,
Ron Paul
P.S. The other candidates have their corporate establishment Big Money donors. They have their lobbyists and their PACs. Mitt Romney used his insider rolodex - thick with Wall Street bankers - to raise 10 million dollars for his campaign.
And his campaign has thrown down the gauntlet by saying they don't think anyone else can touch their accomplishment.
Patriots like you can help me fight back with a massive Money Bomb on June 5th.

 

[Dan Kone]

Tom woods -
Thought Controllers Call Ron Paul "Extreme"

If the people who think Ron Paul is extreme aren't thinking for themselves as you imply, then how come it's the Ron Paul supporters who speak in Ron Paul quotes and constantly use video clips of other people's thoughts as responses in arguments?

It's almost as if Ron Paul supporters are having a hard time thinking for themselves.

Or maybe that's just what the lame stream media wants me to believe.

 

[NoDrama]

It doesn't matter who did it, it was still a terrible idea.

Okay, so lets assume the CBO is a terrible source of information... Does that change anything I said about the HC bill? There is empirical evidence suggesting that policies from Obamacare will "bend the curve". How about this, prove that statement wrong... Prove to me that universal care does not lower costs. Can you?

Lets assume that everything you believe to be true is wrong, as we have so many times proved to you, yet you still think you are correct. The belief that without government regulating things we would only live to be 50, children would work in the salt mines, blacks would be shining shoes or picking cotton exclusively, food would poison us, the rivers and oceans would be wastelands of death and rubbish, everyone would be living in barely standing homes with all sorts of everyday hazards attributable to those corporations that rule the world.
The Constitution does not say " You can't force people to do your bidding, except in the case where it might save money, in that case force it down their throats" Anywhere.

 

[UncleBuck]

When people understand where Dr. Paul is coming from and how he has done nothing but fight for the constitution, they will have no choice but to wake up. The truth is simple.

you are right. because i don't support ron paul, i am asleep and need to "wake up". the "truth" is "simple", not complex, and i am oblivious to "the truth".

it almost sounds like someone is trying to lure me into heaven's gate. if i wake up to the truth, which simple, we will all ride the tail of the comet hale-bopp to a divine destination!

sorry, i am not for some dude who once published a disgustingly hateful newsletter under his name and wants the government (state if not federal) to make decisions about my wife's health.

 

[GayRioThug]

you are right. because i don't support ron paul, i am asleep and need to "wake up". the "truth" is "simple", not complex, and i am oblivious to "the truth".

it almost sounds like someone is trying to lure me into heaven's gate. if i wake up to the truth, which simple, we will all ride the tail of the comet hale-bopp to a divine destination!

sorry, i am not for some dude who once published a disgustingly hateful newsletter under his name and wants the government (state if not federal) to make decisions about my wife's health.

View attachment 1623123

Read the constitution! That document is all we need, simple. Why don't you do some research on that "racist newsletter" you just described. He has talked about that issue many times, and if you believe he supports those views, then you better wake up. Show me an example of how he is discriminating against any race. And please explain how he is going to make the federal government force your wife to do anything. He strongly believes in personal freedoms and has never voted on any legislation that would give the federal government the right to dictate our lives. I'd love to hear one example of anything that he has supported that was unconstitutional, just one.