The Choice I Never Made...

[guy incognito]

There seems to be a trait among priests to molest little boys, should we assume God is a pedophile?

 

[beardo]

You are simply not understanding what is being said.

Beardo said "I know it's God because I know", you yourself essentailly said the exact same thing, then we said "k, what if that SAME VOICE tells you to kill your kid, will you, being the faithful Christian you claim to be, honor Gods word?", now you come back with "of course not! Who in their right mind would?! That's CRAZY!" - which was exactly what ALL OF US expected you would say. Now you must realize you and beardo are using INCONSISTENT standards when assessing where this voice inside your head is coming from. We all have voices in our heads, there is NO EVIDENCE to support the idea they are coming from outside your own mind. You are simply attributing the things you personally view as 'good' to God and things you view as 'bad' to influences by the devil and that thought experiment proves it.

Do you understand?

God said not to kill-God is perfect and wouldn't have put it in the bible if it wasn't right.
If your hearing different your being lied to and the devil is trying to decieve you.

 

[guy incognito]

God said not to kill-God is perfect and wouldn't have put it in the bible if it wasn't right.
If your hearing different your being lied to and the devil is trying to decieve you.

So what if the voice said "go buy lots of food, and bring it to the homeless shelter". How would you determine if that was actually god's voice or just some internal voice you were hearing?

 

[beardo]

Both teams pray to God for help before a football game, only one team wins. So apparently even when you pray to God you get nothing 50% of the time. You could find the same rate of prayers being answered by the sun, if both teams prayed to it.



Science never makes any conclusions without the understanding that new evidence can change things. Science keeps itself open to new evidence, and acknowledges that new evidence could shed new light, as it often does. As humans develop better technology, tools, and understanding we inevitably find evidence we couldn't detect before. Would you rather science make up it's mind about something and then never reconsider it's position again? Once we have an accepted answer (margarine is healthier) and new evidence comes along saying otherwise (butter is healthier) would you prefer science ignore this information for the sake of not admitting it's wrong? This is in fact what religion does, and somehow you are bragging about this? Really?



My theory of gravity? You do not accept it? I wasn't stating the theory of gravity, but pointing out that gravity is something we know is there, even though it can't be seen. We can measure gravity and predict it's behavior. But here you point out your standard for evidence. To you a vagina is sufficient evidence to believe in a supernatural force that makes no detectable interactions with the world. While this is your prerogative, are you really going to fault others for rejecting it? Really?



If this premise were true, we would see a disproportional amount of atheists in prison and on trial for crimes. We would see patterns of neglect, abuse and fraud being predominate among atheists. None of these things are true. Atheists make up less than 1% of prison population but about 93% of the National Academy of Sciences in the US. These are the people who cure your disease, improve your health, and enhance your life. Knowing someone is an atheist tells you precisely what they do not believe, but nothing about what they do believe. Any other attributes are based on bias and misunderstanding.

It's well established God often calls for the killing of mankind and animals, look no further than the great flood. A disproportional number of serial killers suffered from some sort of religious psychosis, or grew up in homes with extremely heavy religious influence. There seems to be a trait among priests to molest little boys, should we assume God is a pedophile? Of course none of these would fairly address the claim of God, and would be red herrings, just like your assertion that atheism is responsible for amoral behavior.

Why not just say God made butter and butter is good and leave it at that.
I'm just saying God made what you call gravity and God made Vaginas they make people that's pretty amazing, anything that great has to be made by God, that's why we don't have man made Vagina imported from China, only the flesh light and we all know that's not as good or we would all want one.
I am not saying Atheism leads to crminal behavior or that claiming a religious affileation prevents it, I am saying that those who follow God and obey his word do good and that the morals associated with religon are good for socitey This is not to say people don't use religon as a front to commit horrible sin that is prohibited by God. -With wide spread Atheism and a socitey without God could more easily justify terrible acts.

 

[beardo]

So what if the voice said "go buy lots of food, and bring it to the homeless shelter". How would you determine if that was actually god's voice or just some internal voice you were hearing?

They are one in the same-but different voices sometimes. God is in us all so the voices you hear are him unless they don't jive with the 10 commandments and the word of God, then they are the voices of the devil and deamons trying to make you stray from the righteous path. so you must resist.

 

[guy incognito]

I'm done participating in this discussion with beardo. It's futile.

 

[beardo]

I'm done participating in this discussion with beardo. It's futile.

It's all good-You have no way to prove god didn't create everything or create us with the ability to invent the things we do.
Does God being great and people being happy about it and saying it and following the ten commandments cause a problem? What if people are happier just knowing God made butter and butter is good? Why do you have to break it down into calories and molocules- If people are happy to be going to heaven why try to take something so fulfilling from them?

 

[Brazko]

Uh...I was stoned making more rush references. Why? Why? Zzzzzz = [video=youtube;5nmOMo4OPi4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nmOMo4OPi4[/video]

I agree that it was over my head. I have no clue of who Rush was. I did/do have a clue as to what the insinuations were. As I addressed them with Heis and yourself. It's not like you all decided to just spout Rush and Tam Sawyer analogies for no reason. O but let's not rush

The rules of logic permit you to be completely rational but still wrong. You can have a sound logical explanation but invalid premises. Induction, the tool that science uses most often is necessarily inexact. This is why we can never say that a theory is proven. Nothing we know about the universe that we live can be known to be absolutely correct. There is always a margin of error. Science strives to diminish that margin with each new discovery.

This is why Einstein supersedes Newton and General Relativity is likely incomplete as it doesn't mesh with Quantum Field Theory, which, being the most successful scientific theory to date, is still fundamentally wrong as it ignores gravity. Science is like a large jigsaw puzzle that starts out with large course pieces but as we put it together, the pieces get smaller and more detailed, sort of like Zeno's Arrow.

I completely agree with this statement. The exact same thing has been said by myself and others that Pad didn't seem to agree with. However, he wanted to know what irrational beliefs has science been responsible for. So regardless of the logical fallacies put forth from incomplete information, the verified data assisted in a false belief. I agree that science in itself cannot be wrong. However whatever science identified/verified was already correct before and it is not called science. The method of identifying/verifying is called science and is fallible to the people who interprets it. But somehow he didnt seem to understand this before, but he does now..

 

[guy incognito]

Why not just shoot heroin all day then?

 

[beardo]

I'm done participating in this discussion with beardo. It's futile.

Again God triumphs !

 

[beardo]

Why not just shoot heroin all day then?

If your Atheist might as well because it doesn't matter.
As far as God I don't think he minds H but the lifestyle we would associate with a junkie is not in keeping with the Righteous path.

 

[Heisenberg]

God said not to kill-God is perfect and wouldn't have put it in the bible if it wasn't right.
If your hearing different your being lied to and the devil is trying to decieve you.

It says different in this very same bible. God killed all the creatures on earth except those on the ark. Did the devil put this in the bible? Do you actually consider what you are saying before you write it out? How does the story of the great flood escape you when it is also the infallible word of god? I am starting to suspect your posts are crafted simply to reiterate ridiculous ideas, since they don't seem to contain any valid rebuttal. I think your are being purposefully oblique.

Why not just say God made butter and butter is good and leave it at that.

You are the one that brought up butter in the context of science with observation that science gets things wrong while religion is always right. I cleared up that assertion and stripped it of it's spin, to which your reply is simply, "God made butter". This leads me to believe you are either five years old, pretending to be as disconnected as a five year old, or have some sort of inability to process logical connections. I can't imagine this response being genuine.

I'm just saying God made what you call gravity and God made Vaginas they make people that's pretty amazing, anything that great has to be made by God, that's why we don't have man made Vagina imported from China, only the flesh light and we all know that's not as good or we would all want one.

I do find procreation to be amazing, but not astonishing. It's pretty well known how an egg gets fertilized and grows into a human. Again you are demonstrating that your criteria for evidence of god simply need to be something you don't understand. That is a pretty weak position as what you don't understand is well understood by others, and could be understood by you if you seek answers.

I am not saying Atheism leads to crminal behavior or that claiming a religious affileation prevents it, I am saying that those who follow God and obey his word do good and that the morals associated with religon are good for socitey This is not to say people don't use religon as a front to commit horrible sin that is prohibited by God. -With wide spread Atheism and a socitey without God could more easily justify terrible acts.

So these serial killers and pedophile priests are examples of people who are not following the word of God. You are then saying that despite religions influence we still end up with amoral behavior. In fact, it's the religious who are doing most of the crimes. If only 1% of prison population are atheist, 99% of them are open to gods influence. But man is not perfect and that's fair enough. How though do you explain when God himself directly killed most of the world with a flood? Does God not teach by example? Why does God sometimes kill children? If a child is having heart surgery, and survives, God is given credit. It's a sad fact that many children die from surgery everyday. If God is responsible for the ones that live, he must be responsible for the ones that die, unless of course god isn't all powerful and sometimes can't help the situation. How do you explain when God creates something terrible? If anything amazing is evidence of god, I think that amount of oil spilled into the ocean last summer was pretty amazing. Part of that amazement would include god's decision to kill all those birds and fish.

Will you respond with considerate rebuttal, or simple say "God made fish"?

 

[karri0n]

I am starting to suspect your posts are crafted simply to reiterate ridiculous ideas, since they don't seem to contain any valid rebuttal. I think your are being purposefully oblique.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Will you respond with considerate rebuttal, or simple say "God made fish"?

The gulf is actually nearly to pre-oil spill levels for health. I believe before the spill it was rated at 71% and it is now at 68%. Perhaps some god created the oil eating bacteria?

 

[beardo]

It says different in this very same bible. God killed all the creatures on earth except those on the ark. Did the devil put this in the bible? Do you actually consider what you are saying before you write it out? How does the story of the great flood escape you when it is also the infallible word of god? I am starting to suspect your posts are crafted simply to reiterate ridiculous ideas, since they don't seem to contain any valid rebuttal. I think your are being purposefully oblique.



You are the one that brought up butter in the context of science with observation that science gets things wrong while religion is always right. I cleared up that assertion and stripped it of it's spin, to which your reply is simply, "God made butter". This leads me to believe you are either five years old, pretending to be as disconnected as a five year old, or have some sort of inability to process logical connections. I can't imagine this response being genuine.



I do find procreation to be amazing, but not astonishing. It's pretty well known how an egg gets fertilized and grows into a human. Again you are demonstrating that your criteria for evidence of god simply need to be something you don't understand. That is a pretty weak position as what you don't understand is well understood by others, and could be understood by you if you seek answers.



So these serial killers and pedophile priests are examples of people who are not following the word of God. You are then saying that despite religions influence we still end up with amoral behavior. In fact, it's the religious who are doing most of the crimes. If only 1% of prison population are atheist, 99% of them are open to gods influence. But man is not perfect and that's fair enough. How though do you explain when God himself directly killed most of the world with a flood? Does God not teach by example? Why does God sometimes kill children? If a child is having heart surgery, and survives, God is given credit. It's a sad fact that many children die from surgery everyday. If God is responsible for the ones that live, he must be responsible for the ones that die, unless of course god isn't all powerful and sometimes can't help the situation. How do you explain when God creates something terrible? If anything amazing is evidence of god, I think that amount of oil spilled into the ocean last summer was pretty amazing. Part of that amazement would include god's decision to kill all those birds and fish.

Will you respond with considerate rebuttal, or simple say "God made fish"?

God can kill who ever he wants, we belong to him, this is his garden and he weeds it as he sees fit.
As far as God made butter-i'm pointing out sciences insistance on trying to analize everything. when in the end it doesnt matter and may make us less happy
The fact you came out of a Vagina and that guys will do almost anything for vagina and so will some women and that it feels so good and is so elastic and durable and has multiple functions- Or the brain who made the brain?

 

[Heisenberg]

It's all good-You have no way to prove god didn't create everything or create us with the ability to invent the things we do.
Does God being great and people being happy about it and saying it and following the ten commandments cause a problem? What if people are happier just knowing God made butter and butter is good? Why do you have to break it down into calories and molocules- If people are happy to be going to heaven why try to take something so fulfilling from them?

It is not our place to disprove god, nor are we trying to. The burden of proof falls to the party making the claim, something im sure you would agree with if someone was claiming you to be a murderer. Skeptics actually try to verify the existence of god, which we can not do. If religious people were simply happy with going to heaven, they wouldn't be knocking on my door imploring me to go as well. Our motivation is not to take fulfillment from others, but to explain why the concepts are not fulfilling to us. If you do not care to hear it, then don't present it to me. You can not implore me to believe in god, fail to give valid reasons why you believe in god, and then act hurt when I reject that belief. Figure out a good reason to believe, and I will accept it.

 

[guy incognito]

god did it!

 

[Heisenberg]

God can kill who ever he wants, we belong to him, this is his garden and he weeds it as he sees fit.
As far as God made butter-i'm pointing out sciences insistance on trying to analize everything. when in the end it doesnt matter and may make us less happy
The fact you came out of a Vagina and that guys will do almost anything for vagina and so will some women and that it feels so good and is so elastic and durable and has multiple functions- Or the brain who made the brain?

How infallible can the teachings of god be if he does not follow them himself?

Your appeal that things shouldn't be analyzed beyond levels of happiness is a blatant appeal to ignorance. Why seek answers when ignorance makes us happy? If you can't answer that, then you deserve to be ignorant.

 

[beardo]

You fail to give valid reasons why you believe in god, .

I have had first hand contact with God and I am a believer.If you are not I will not let that lead me astray-I wish you well and have a blessed day.

 

[karri0n]

H,

Do you choose not to believe in gods? What is it that makes it a choice(or not)?

 

[mindphuk]

I'm done participating in this discussion with beardo. It's futile.

When I said something like that a few days ago, I see that I got a new rep. However, in spite of being a +rep, the content said, "Get the fuck outta here atheist scum, we dont need your fucking lies" and it referred me right back to my reply to beardo. Ironic that beardo now talks about immoral behavior without a god yet those that claim to follow him seem to demonstrate the worst that mankind has to offer.