Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

[Matt Rize]

I think i found a nice Fish H. product http://www.amazon.com/Neptunes-Harvest-Hydrolized-Fish-Qt/dp/B0012Q2TFA

Other than that i have everything els needed on that list...cant wait to brew up some Tea for my plants..also can i brew it indoors? or does it need fresh air

indoors is okay. the temperature at which you bubble affects the length of time. I just do it at room temp for 24 hours because without a microscope it's really just a guessing game.

 

[romulan23]

veganic grow here and i want to make hash with the bottom buds. would that be the same process as in your video or do the buds ned to be cut up?

If you dont mind a hash question?

 

[Matt Rize]

veganic grow here and i want to make hash with the bottom buds. would that be the same process as in your video or do the buds ned to be cut up?

If you dont mind a hash question?

cut them up fresh, not too much, just to break the buds up.

 

[snew]

http://www.goveganic.org/spip.php?article206

Different ways to garden veganically
Table of contents
Container gardening
Ruth Stout technique - (...)
Biointensive
Lasagna gardening / Sheet (...)
Forest gardening
Permaculture
Self-fertilizing gardens
Japanese natural agriculture
Square foot gardening
"Standard" gardening
....

This had some great info matt thanks

 

[malignant]

im a fan of gen organic seaweed and fish fertilizer makes a lovely tea.

 

[Rayne]

For the sake of getting this information out on the board again.

In regards to the use of earthworm castings in an indoor or outdoor vegan organic grow. Unless anyone wants to hold themselves to the strictest standards of vegan organic growing using earthworm castings is a matter of personal choice.

 

[Matt Rize]

Current Lineups...

Soilless Mix: (all rooms)
Bioterra Plus (new and reused), compost (all veg), EWC (all veg fed), neem cake (neemresource.com), kelp and alfalfa meal, dolomite lime, VAM (BioAg), #5 perlite.


Veg Tent: Measurements in per gallon, all water is treated with molasses to dechlorinate before I add nutes.
5 mL Vega
5 mL CalMag (GO)
5 mL BioRoot (GO)
1 mL Silica (Protek)
Pinch Humic (BioAg)
Pinch TM-7 (BioAg, once a week instead of Humic)
5 to 10 mL Fulpower (BioAg)
Tea (see below)
pH -> 6.3ish @ 500+ ppm

Flower room: (at peak)
10 to 15 mL Vega/Flores
5 mL CalMag
10 mL BioBoost
Humic/Fulvic same as veg
1 mL Silica
3 mL zymes
Kelp (BioAg and/or Techanflora)
Tea - local compost + molasses, 24 hr brew at 68ish degrees.
-> 6.1ish pH 900 to 1000 ppm

 

[Bird Gymnastics]

Do you prefer to use unsulfured molasses or just any brand of molasses out there? Just curious because unsulfured is from mature sugar cane when regular is from pre mature and has to have sulphur added for sanitation purposes. Would like to hear your two sense about it.

 

[Matt Rize]

Do you prefer to use unsulfured molasses or just any brand of molasses out there? Just curious because unsulfured is from mature sugar cane when regular is from pre mature and has to have sulphur added for sanitation purposes. Would like to hear your two sense about it.

Only use unsulfured. I use Wholesome Sweeteners organic unsulfured. You don't need added sulfur.

 

[ganjamystic]

Wouldn't it be nice if the result of this thread is: a local/sustainable plant-based (99%) potting mix that kicks-ass, on the throw your pens away and feed hella hard level, that anyone can make at home while rivaling the bioterraplus. AND the development of a kick-ass plant based nute system that rivals the biocanna and supplements, that anyone could make from bulk products that are easy and not sketchy to obtain...I could die a happy man.

Ganja Mystic's Local/Sustainable Plant-Based Potting Mix + Nutrients

Potting Mix: Aged pine bark, composted forest humus, worm castings, rice hulls, alfalfa meal, dehydrated banana peel, dehydrated potato skin, kelp meal, dolomite lime

Veg Nutrients: Mountain spring water, raw honey, molasses, epsom salt, extracts of: worm castings, alfalfa, soy, kelp, yucca, aloe, comfrey, nettle & yarrow

Bloom Nutrients: Mountain spring water, raw honey, molasses, epsom salt, extracts of: worm castings, alfalfa, banana peel, potato skin, yucca, aloe, comfrey, nettle & yarrow

Catalyst: Mountain spring water, raw honey, molasses, yeast, extracts of: wheat bran, oat bran & kelp

 

[Matt Rize]

That is awesome. Thanks! First post... do I know you? AND WELCOME!!!

 

[ganjamystic]

That is awesome. Thanks! First post... do I know you? AND WELCOME!!!

Thanks! Yep, first post. You don't know me yet, but we definitely share a similar interest in growing the absolute purest, best quality organic medicine possible!

I would call mine a mostly vegan/vegetarian approach, though, as I always use worm castings, and sometimes use hydrolyzed fish (from local, organic, farm-raised trout) for an N-P boost, bat guano (from fossilized deposits from collapsed caves only, so it's not even technically poop anymore) for a P boost, and crushed/powdered eggshells (from local, organic, free-range eggs) for a Cal boost... But, I feel like we're definitely on the same page

Oh and I forgot to mention I sometimes add a little (1/4 tsp per gal) Pink Himalayan Salt, Celtic Sea Salt, or Dead Sea Salt to the nutrient mixtures for trace elements and minerals...

Oh and the best stuff to feed your worms to make super dank worm castings are coffee grounds, crushed egg shells, fruit and vegetable scraps (skins and peels especially) and most importantly cannabis scraps (fan leaves, stalks, roots, etc.)! Think about it: what other plant scrap could have a more perfect nutrient content for cannabis than cannabis itself?? Recycle your cannabis waste!!

Which makes me realize, I also forgot to mention cannabis scrap extract as another major ingredient in the nutrient mixtures...

Oh and also, plant extracts should be made in two ways:
1) steeping dried, chopped plant matter in hot water like tea (for extracting compounds)
2) fermenting fresh plant matter with lactobacillus (for extracting elements)

Okay, what else did I forget?...

 

[Matt Rize]

Okay, what else did I forget?...

The FPEs (fermented plant extracts) like mango/papaya for enzymes

 

[ganjamystic]

The FPEs (fermented plant extracts) like mango/papaya for enzymes

Well I don't use mango or papaya, since I don't typically buy/eat them, and therefore don't have scraps to ferment, but enzymes are definitely important! I use Hygrozyme, which very well could be made from fermented mango/papaya, but it's a "secret enzyme formula" so who knows...

But yeah, FPEs are exactly what I was talkin bout here:

Oh and also, plant extracts should be made in two ways:
1) steeping dried, chopped plant matter in hot water like tea (for extracting compounds)
2) fermenting fresh plant matter with lactobacillus (for extracting elements)

 

[ganjamystic]

I do want to throw something out on the table for all of us who are interested in "Veganics" to think about... I mentioned this to Kyle Kushman on his page on medicalmarijuana.com a while back, so I'm just going to repost it here (please note, my opinion has changed somewhat since originally posting this, which I will explain below...)

Hi Kyle! Awesome page, awesome vibe! I also am constantly striving to bring my gardening techniques into greater harmony with Mother Nature and do everything in my power to be environmentally and ecologically conscious--everything I can to live a sustainable, organic lifestyle and leave a light footprint on the Earth. I have the utmost respect and compassion for our cohabitants of this planet and want to see all... industries become ethical and humane in their treatment of animals and conscious of their impact on ecosystems and species.

That being said, I have to ask if you are aware of the facts regarding the source of P in the nutrients you are recommending (canna bio, go biothrive, etc.)--the vegan alternative to phosphorous-rich, non-vegan sources like bone meal, bat and seabird guano, hydrolyzed fish, chicken manure, etc--rock phosphate. Unfortunately, the mining of hard and soft rock phosphate from the Earth for fertilizer, much like the practice of drilling for oil, has been a completely unsustainable practice--one that has now almost completely eliminated the planet's phosphate mineral reserves. In other words, we have reached peak phosphorus. This means essentially all of the phosphorus that used to be in mineral deposits within the Earth (well, all that hasn't already ended up as pollution in rivers, lakes, streams, ponds, groundwater, etc. because of the widespread use of chemical nutrients containing water-soluble forms of P) is now in the plants we have grown with it, in the bodies of the animals who have eaten these plants, and in the waste of these animals (including humanure)...

Soo... basically, it isn't environmentally responsible at this time to promote the use of nutrients containing rock phosphate. The use of rock phosphate has to be quickly phased out of organic gardening and agriculture/horticulture in general. The only way to recycle all of the phosphorus that has been mined from the Earth is to grow with composted plant matter, guano, manure, bone meal, hydrolyzed fish, etc.

In other words, gardening can't be environmentally-friendly, organic, sustainable AND 100% vegan. Rather, instead of simply refusing to use animal sources of fertilizer, all of us who care about the ethical, non-exploitative treatment of animals need to seek new and improved, humane methods of acquiring P-rich animal sources of fertilizer. This shouldn't be that hard. Vegans and vegetarians who don't want to support farms who raise animals for food can enrich their garden soil and/or potting mix with compost made of vegetable scraps, dead leaves, yard clippings and worm castings and begin to devise sustainable methods of harvesting high-P wild bat and bird droppings from caves and/or beneath bat boxes and bird houses. Ethical meat-eaters have the option of adding in composted manure and bone meal from free-range organic farms and hydrolyzed fish and fish bone meal from organic fish farms and/or sustainably-caught ocean fish. All of the above fertilizers can be made into super-potent, living, liquid nutrient "tea" by mixing them into chlorine-free water with molasses and aerating the solution for several hours.

And it's not gross or unclean to use guano and manure to grow food and medicine, When poop is broken down by worms and microbes, it becomes humus, a.k.a. soil! Finished compost is odor-free, safe to handle with your bare hands, and completely healthy to use for growing food and medicine for human consumption. Similarly, hydrolyzed fish is fresh fish scraps that have been blended and then digested by bacteria and enzymes, resulting in an incredibly nutritious and surprisingly pleasant-smelling water-soluble fish soup that plants absolutely love!

So, once again, much respect to you, Kushman! I totally share your vision of evolving beyond basic organic gardening toward even more harmonious and sustainable methods. I just wanted to make sure you knew about peak phosphorus and gently encourage you not to throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to animal sources of organic fertilizer.

Peace and One Love!

Okay, first, I must stand by my statement that the use of rock phosphate has to be phased out. There's no way around that. (I'm talkin to you, Canna & General Organics!)

However, I do know now that it's possible to grow vegan cannabis using fermented plant extracts and plant-based compost, BUT, it's also important to realize that the plants that can be used to make a decently P-rich FPE (banana, potato, cucumber, squash, etc.) are not grown "veganically" themselves. They are either grown with chemical ferts (in the case of non-organic) or with blood meal, bone meal, guano, fish hydrosylate, manure, etc. (in the case of organic)...

So... Although one can avoid using animal by-products and waste products directly to grow cannabis. Indirectly, the nutrients from these products still eventually end up in the herb.

That being said, there are ways (composting & fermentation) to completely convert guano and manure to a "non-poop" state before use as fertilizer, thus eliminating odors and the potential for pathogens...

So, if one wanted to grow cannabis using only plant-based compost and fermented plant extracts, and also wanted to be sure that no products of animal farming (blood meal, bone meal, etc.) were used, even indirectly, that no animal habitats were disturbed or destroyed, and that no raw poop was used, one would pretty much need to grow the plants for the FPEs themselves using guano collected under bat boxes that had been totally composted and/or fermented (bokashi-style) prior to use...

 

[ganjamystic]

Okay, first, I must stand by my statement that the use of rock phosphate has to be phased out. There's no way around that. (I'm talkin to you, Canna & General Organics!)

I forgot to mention, there does appear to be a brand of organic nutrients on the market that doesn't contain rock phosphate OR animal products: Pura Vida Organics by Technaflora...

Haven't tried these yet, but I'm definitely intrigued! Apparently, they can even be used in hydroponic or drip systems without clogging lines!

Check it out!

OMRI Listed for use in organic production. Pura Vida Organics™ Grow (6-4-3) is a unique fertilizer that specifically targets the vegetative growth phase. Creates lush green foliage while providing plants with both a balanced and available nutrient supply.

Ideal for use in hydroponic, soil and soilless based gardening mediums. Will NOT clog irrigation lines and does NOT have the nasty smells associated with other organic brands.

Guaranteed Analysis (6-4-3):
Total Nitrogen (N) ..... 6.0%
6.0% Organic Nitrogen (N)
Available Phosphate (P2O5) ..... 4.0%
Soluble Potash (K2O) ..... 3.0%
Magnesium (Mg) .....0.5%
Boron (B) .....0.02%
Soluble Copper (Cu) .....0.05%
Iron (Fe) ..... 0.1%
Manganese (Mn) ..... 0.05%
Zinc (Zn) ..... 0.05%

Ingredients: Seaweed powder, kelp extracts, alfalfa, molasses, potassium sulfate, epsom salt, solubar, copper sulfate, iron sulfate, manganese sulfate and zinc sulfate.

OMRI Listed for use in organic production. Pura Vida Organics™ Bloom (2-6-6) is a unique fertilizer formulated to promote and maximize the flowering and fruiting performance of plants. Produces abundant, fragrant flowers and mature fruits while providing plants with both a balanced and available nutrient supply.

Ideal for use in hydroponic, soil and soilless based gardening mediums. Will NOT clog irrigation lines and does NOT have the nasty smells associated with other organic brands.

Guaranteed Analysis (2-6-6):
Total Nitrogen (N) ..... 2.0%
2.0% Organic Nitrogen (N)
Available Phosphate (P2O5) ..... 6.0%
Soluble Potash (K2O) ..... 6.0%
Magnesium (Mg) .....0.5%
Boron (B) .....0.02%
Soluble Copper (Cu) .....0.05%
Iron (Fe) ..... 0.1%
Manganese (Mn) ..... 0.05%
Zinc (Zn) ..... 0.05%

Ingredients: Seaweed powder, kelp extracts, alfalfa, molasses, potassium sulfate, epsom salt, solubar, copper sulfate, iron sulfate, manganese sulfate and zinc sulfate.

(from planetnatural.com)

Pura Vida™ Grow & Bloom are unique blends of fertilizers that provide plants with both a balanced and available nutrient supply in a natural form. Suitable for use in hydroponic, soil and soilless based gardening mediums, both Pura Vida ™ Grow and Bloom can be applied without the fear of irrigation line clogging and without the nasty smells associated with other organic brands.

Formulated from various plant materials and subjected to a fermentation process, Pura Vida™ Grow & Bloom contain sufficient nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P) and potassium (K) along with essential micro nutrients to sustain rapid, aggressive growth during the vegetative stage and to produce abundant fragrant flowers and mature fruits during the flowering/fruiting stages.

Pura Vida™ Grow specifically targets the vegetative growth phase rapidly creating lush green foliage while Pura Vida™ Bloom is formulated to promote and maximize the flowering and fruiting performance of plants during the reproductive stage.

Powerful on their own, Pura Vida™ Grow & Bloom are ideal as a ONE-PART fertilizer for general use. When combined, Pura Vida™ Grow & Bloom create an aggressive TWO-PART formulation suitable for high demand crop production systems.

(from technaflora.com)

 

[Matt Rize]

I forgot to mention, there does appear to be a brand of organic nutrients on the market that doesn't contain rock phosphate OR animal products: Pura Vida Organics by Technaflora...

Haven't tried these yet, but I'm definitely intrigued! Apparently, they can even be used in hydroponic or drip systems without clogging lines!

Check it out!

All my friends use pure vida. The results are very commercial. They recently lost their organic listing, but thats not really a big deal to me. Great posts.

In reference to FPEs, I've been told to not use Lacto b, and that the indigenous microflora is sufficient to perform the fermentation. I'm no expert here, my comfrey is almost big enough to start taking leaves off.

 

[KocfOwned]

hey matt quick question for you,I need to know how to PH up my Organic nutrient solution..I know lime does the trick But im running Roots Organics soil and im sure theres already a decent amount in there and dont want to go adding more than i need...I'm Running the G.O line and they say not to PH adjust but i hear otherwise from people...saying is best to bring it to 5.5 and then feed as apposed to leaving it in the low range of 4.5-4.7..Any thoughts on the subject

Thanks in advance

 

[ganjamystic]

All my friends use pure vida. The results are very commercial. They recently lost their organic listing, but thats not really a big deal to me. Great posts.

Thanks! By the results being commercial, do you mean good yields but lacking in the flavors, aromas, and colors you said the biocanna line brings out? If so, I'm thinking that could probably be fixed with some tropical plant extracts (banana, papaya, mango, pineapple, etc.). I haven't yet really started experimenting with plant extracts for flavor specifically, but have definitely noticed improved aesthetic qualities since switching to primarily plant-based nutrients. I was reading the other day about a product called Banana Manna, which is said to really bring out the natural flavor and aroma potential of plants:

It is a nutrient supplement and can be used in conjunction with a regular fertilizing program. It can be used as foliar feed or root feed. This formulation contains concentrated organic extract of banana, mango, guava and other exotic tropical plants rich in hormones and vitamins known to increase essential oil production in plants. It is known to enhance flavor of fruits...

~ Stimulates the production of essential oils, which gives plants better flavor. Strawberries are sweeter, peppers are hotter, and basil is more "basily."...

~ Concentrated Organic extract of Banana and Exotic Tropical Plants.

~ Banana Manna will not make herbs, fruits, or vegetables taste like banana! Once the proteins are isolated in banana what is left are potent hormones and vitamins that boost essential oil production in plants. Essential oils are what give flavor to herbs, fruits, and vegetables.

~ Rich in Vitamins, Minerals, Hormones, and Enzymes...

~ Produces stronger, more distinctive flavors in your plants.

~ Should be used as an additive to a fertilizer solution.

(from http://www.phoenixorganics.com/new/node/6112)

This got me thinking that this must be why the buds are tasting so much better now that I'm using fermented banana peel in my bloom nute mixture... Rather than buy Banana Manna or a similar product for $50 a gallon, it could easily be brewed at home for much less!

~~~~~~~

In reference to FPEs, I've been told to not use Lacto b, and that the indigenous microflora is sufficient to perform the fermentation. I'm no expert here, my comfrey is almost big enough to start taking leaves off.

Good to know! Are you talking about doing something like this?

Forest Beneficial Microorganisms

One technique in culturing other beneficial microorganism is getting them fro your local aged forest. One way is finding a healthy old robust tree in your local forest. Check the humus litter around the tree. The tree should have accumulated real deep humus, litter, compost of at least 2 feet to 1 yard deep. In this area through observation, we can deduce that soil fertility and microbial biodiversity are high. Our goal is to trap and culture these diversed, aged beneficial indigenous microorganisms. The technique that we use in trapping these microorganisms is the use of carbohydrate like cooked rice. Microorganisms will be attracted to food. So generally, what we do is to put the cooked rice on a flatter container with lid. For example, you can use a plastic lunch box and add about an inch of cooked rice allowing air space in the container. What is important here is a larger area to trap those microorganisms. It is suggested that you cover this container with metal netting or equivalent protecting it from animals like rats that may undig your container once you bury it in the litter, humus of your local forest. In 2-10 days (relative to temperature), you may undig your container and will notice contamination of microorganisms like white and other color molds on the cooked rice. The cooked rice has been infected now with microorganisms of your local forest. The next step is to add 1/3 amount of crude sugar or molasses to the infected cooked rice. After a week, the concoction will look like sticky, liquidy rice. You may then add equal amount of crude sugar or molasses to keep it for storage, arresting microbial activities, in a cooler area. To use, you may dilute this serum with 20 parts water. This diluted form shall then serve as your basic forest microorganisms. You may strain it and put in a container.

Another version of trapping similar forest microorganisms is simply getting the litter, humus and spreading them sparingly to the top your cooked rice. Forest leaf molds can also be used. The same procedure will be followed as described in the culture of local forest microorganisms.

(from http://tribes.tribe.net/effectivemicro/thread/d6b8fd03-e2c7-4650-a658-51fdf4f013ad)

Thanks again for the replies, Matt. It's really great to converse with somebody who's as into all this as I am!

 

[ganjamystic]

hey matt quick question for you,I need to know how to PH up my Organic nutrient solution..I know lime does the trick But im running Roots Organics soil and im sure theres already a decent amount in there and dont want to go adding more than i need...I'm Running the G.O line and they say not to PH adjust but i hear otherwise from people...saying is best to bring it to 5.5 and then feed as apposed to leaving it in the low range of 4.5-4.7..Any thoughts on the subject

Thanks in advance

Earth Juice makes a natural PH up called, you guessed it, Natural Up! (haha creative name right?) Sorry, I know your question wasn't addressed to me, but I figured since I was here...