Flat Tax: The Proof Is In The Pudding

[RalphCurtis]

Guy..that is really not a way to handle this issue. Perhaps your team, the GOP has advanced an idea but that does not mean the rest of us have to be blinded by it. You may be a team player, ( probley the root cause of political faiulre in the USA) but there are folks that are not on your team.

The argument about corporate taxes is not what you try to make it. Many large corporations, and you named a few, do in fact pay NO taxes. I do. You do. They do not. They also control the political process in our country with their BIG BUCKS..your vote means very little. The point is that for the USA to go on, it like your family or a corporation must have money.

So..has it been rigged? Have the big corps used their political influence and their ownership of the media to convince you the moral path is for you to pay THEIR way. Limbaugh say s yes. So does FOX and a bunch of political types. Buy it if you like...if you have any bucks left over after your donations their corporate welfare.

 

[Johnny Retro]

I obviously do not think that all corporations get away without paying taxes and I am not insinuating that these are among either party. I am obviously not going to be able to prove if these corporations did or did not pay taxes. I have a much more simple task. since it is your argument here, which is the same argument the Republicans give such as mark levine, and its incredibly distorted. Instead how about you show us how many jobs we lost because of these corporations "moving" to Switzerland.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40827123/ns/business-us_business/#.TqifGrKacZI
The Economic Policy Institute, a Washington think tank, says American companies have created 1.4 million jobs overseas this year,

Take a look at Switzerland's unemployment rate from 2009 to now.
Then compare that with Americas unemployment 2009 to now.

 

[Johnny Retro]

Guy..that is really not a way to handle this issue. Perhaps your team, the GOP has advanced an idea but that does not mean the rest of us have to be blinded by it. You may be a team player, ( probley the root cause of political faiulre in the USA) but there are folks that are not on your team.

The argument about corporate taxes is not what you try to make it. Many large corporations, and you named a few, do in fact pay NO taxes. I do. You do. They do not. They also control the political process in our country with their BIG BUCKS..your vote means very little. The point is that for the USA to go on, it like your family or a corporation must have money.

So..has it been rigged? Have the big corps used their political influence and their ownership of the media to convince you the moral path is for you to pay THEIR way. Limbaugh say s yes. So does FOX and a bunch of political types. Buy it if you like...if you have any bucks left over after your donations their corporate welfare.

The companies i named pay no taxes? Prove it, Guy

 

[mame]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40827123/ns/business-us_business/#.TqifGrKacZI
The Economic Policy Institute, a Washington think tank, says American companies have created 1.4 million jobs overseas this year,

Take a look at Switzerland's unemployment rate from 2009 to now.
Then compare that with Americas unemployment 2009 to now.

there you are with your correlations again. So Switzerland is to blame for the recession? they stole our jobs according to you, right?

You keep failing when it comes to actually showing one thing causes another...

 

[Johnny Retro]

there you are with your correlations again. So Switzerland is to blame for the recession? they stole our jobs according to you, right?

You keep failing when it comes to actually showing one thing causes another...

Was giving a little PROOF
Read the line under the link i posted. The Economic Policy Institute, a Washington think tank, says American companies have created 1.4 million jobs overseas this year,
Yes, go ahead and google The Economic Policy Institute. And please tell me they are also biased

The Economic Policy Institute is a 501(c)(3) non-profit, liberal,[1] nonpartisan think tank that seeks to broaden the public debate about strategies to achieve a prosperous and fair economy. According to EPI's website, the institute was established to "broaden the discussion about economic policy to include the interests of low- and middle-income workers." EPI focuses on "the economic condition of low- and middle-income Americans and their families."[2] EPI researchers, who often testify to Congress and are widely cited in the media, brought to light the disconnect between pay and productivity that marked the U.S. economy in the 1990s.[citation needed] The EPI's President is Lawrence Mishel, a long-time member of Democratic Socialists of America.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Policy_Institute#cite_note-2

 

[RalphCurtis]

Exactly. JB is in the same mess as you an I. It's the big boys that avoid taxes, pay big bucks to their CEO's and do nothing to advance the position of the average American.

There are lies on both sides of this argument..class warfare or oligarchy. The truth is the middle class and the working class's in America are getting the shaft. They elect Democrats and Republicans to deal with the mess and both of those "parties" just return it in a mess over.

Now go roll yourself a big fatty. Take a hit and ask.."what do I want ". If you do it right you will see its not what FOX or MSNBC told you or Obama or Limbaugh. If it feels better then the blunt..it came from you.

 

[mame]

Was giving a little PROOF
Read the line under the link i posted. The Economic Policy Institute, a Washington think tank, says American companies have created 1.4 million jobs overseas this year,
Yes, go ahead and google The Economic Policy Institute. And please tell me they are also biased

1.4 million jobs created overseas? That's about the only fact you've posted... BUT then you went on to try and link America's unemployment rate to Switzerland... Are you asserting that Switzerland stole our jobs? Seems like it, but you'd have to prove causation in order to back that up - not just correlation as you have so far.

 

[Johnny Retro]

...what else do i have to prove? That's the point of this argument.

That correlated with corporations moving to Switzerland, to our unemployment rate doubling in that time, and Switzerland's unemployment being cut in half during that time. Its slapping you in the face but you just can't see it...

 

[deprave]

Id say the actual jobs and proof that they would of been otherwise created here or were taken from here, which would be pretty difficult to prove, its basically hearsay anyway you look at it. You don't need to prove anything, unless you are going to name call people and say they are dead wrong then you need a little bit of proof. Lets try to me civil, you got nothing to prove, this is just an Internet thread.

 

[deprave]

So the point I am trying to help you understand and others are also is that its a big game. This is just sensationalism, as is the flat tax, they are really just trying to take advantage of you and I.

They have no principles or morals. how could they? they are inhuman entities, creations of ours, corporations and government, the entire monetary system. Money is the root of all evil.

 

[UncleBuck]

...what else do i have to prove? That's the point of this argument.

That correlated with corporations moving to Switzerland, to our unemployment rate doubling in that time, and Switzerland's unemployment being cut in half during that time. Its slapping you in the face but you just can't see it...

that's just your opinion

 

[mame]

...what else do i have to prove? That's the point of this argument.

Look, I sort of understand the argument you're trying to make but your thoughts are so fragmented it's honestly hard to even know what you're arguing. Let's review:

1) you said corporations are moving to switzerland. Cool.

2) you said that was because of low taxes. Here I argued that you didn't prove it, and you responded with quotes from news releases by a company - not numbers or anything else of the sort.

3)you argued with me about what constitutes proof for a second.

4) you posted that 1.4 million figure but then...

5) you put America's and Switzerland's unemployment rates into the discussion... What are you even trying to say with this one? THat Switzerland caused the recession?

So basically I think what you're saying is that companies are moving from the US, and that they're doing it because of tax rates. I'd agree with the first part, and disagree with the second.

 

[Johnny Retro]

The companies first moved to Bermuda, which has 0% corporate tax rate. Who the fuck would move their corporation to Bermuda if there wasn't a reason. Then Obama says hes going to come down on those companies that have moved to Bermuda. They then go to Switzerland. And i doubt its for their chocolate.
The fact that Obama says hes coming down on companies moving to the Caribbean to avoid taxes is enough proof anyone could ever want.
The corporations have said thats why they are moving.
What else do you want? do you want a phone call from the CEO?

 

[deprave]

Think Johny...Thinkkk...be free man!

This is a conservative and also a Democrat hoax to take advantage of people! Think what I am saying....my brotha...lets chase these crazy baldheads out of town
[video=youtube;YTmYXttrAvE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTmYXttrAvE[/video]


This is just sensationalism, as is the flat tax, they are really just trying to take advantage of you and I.

They have no principles or morals. how could they? they are inhuman entities, creations of ours, corporations and government, the entire monetary system. Money is the root of all evil.

 

[tomahawk2406]

I am against Income taxes, period. The government can earn plenty of money without income taxes. Its morally wrong to take from people. Stealing is wrong its really that simple. Plans like Herman cains are for the purpose of an additional tax burden on the people, 9-9-9 would be 20-20-20 or more eventually, if history repeats itself.

Besides, Switzerland is totally different....

stealing bro? are you fucking kidding me?

 

[tomahawk2406]

The way the system is now, the rich get penalized for working hard and taking risks(I.E creating jobs). While the poor get a bunch of tax breaks for taking no risks and not working hard. Fair?

are these comments for real?

 

[Dan Kone]

I think income taxes are theft not all taxes...and we don't need income taxes to have those things.

What makes income tax theft but other taxes just?

 

[tomahawk2406]

when did this ..........."ahhh fuck it i don't want to pay taxes anymore" attitude come into effect? this is like fighting about why you can't go into a store and have free shit because you want it.

 

[Dan Kone]

So people who have the knowledge to make money in our stock markets should be penalized and taxed more? Some real smart thinking there...

You're advocating them not being taxed at all. Yes, I think when some Wall St asshole buys up a company, fires everyone, then harvests that company's wealth for his own personal benefit he should have to pay taxes on the money that he didn't earn but acquired. Crazy stuff, I know.

So since you have the knowledge to build a house, or perform heart surgery, or go over someones business expenses (accountants) you should be taxed more? According to your statement.

No. If you build a house you're working in exchange for income. That's earning money. It's making the country a better place. When you speculate on oil futures you are not contributing any service to society. You're a parasite gaining wealth at the expense of other Americans. It isn't working or earning money. It's extracting money from our economy. And yes, I believe if we are going to allow parasites like that to exist we should tax them heavily.

If you work in exchange for money then I think your taxes should be the same if not lower. I just want to raise taxes on folks that do not work for the money they earn, but instead just stay wealthy by leeching off of the labor of the American people.

 

[Dan Kone]

by the way, I'm still waiting for someone to show me some proof that the US federal government spends an unusually large amount of money compared to other governments. Come on conservatives, here's your big chance to prove we have "big government" here in the US.

Or are you guys just unhappy that we aren't modeling our federal government after Somalia?