To me it makes perfect sense to use the term, "God" in the most absolute observation. "Jehovah" in Hebrew means, "Behold!- I Am, That I Am All That You Now And Ever Shall- Behold!" God is everything and everyone we all can see or think of. So it's also correct that being specific at that point and referring to tangible reality in a particular context is necessary in order to communicate effectively about any given subject.
Faith
- Thread starter eye exaggerate
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eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
When we really think about it, it's evident why what Jeremiah 23 is saying towards the end of the chapter makes a lot of sense. Why the Jews concluded that it was unwise to even use the Most Holy Name. Easily it can become confusing or conflicting to even make reference to what is otherwise the most obvious: "Sure, there really is a God Almighty. We both agree and know the reality of the matter in an instant. So then what?" Equating what I see in Jeremiah's words: "Say to them, 'What is the Oracle [(Glory, or as a result, Burden)] of the Lord? Behold, you are the burden.'...", etc. And ironically Jeremiah himself is violating his own terms by proclaiming what the Lord says. But that was ancient Old Testament first heaven context. I was a devout atheist until I had a profound spiritual experience alone in my own home in the fall of 1999 directly at the hand of The Almighty. Freaked the ever livin' #%$! outa' me! Suddenly I could read what the Bible was actually saying and the whole bit. Oh, there most certainly is a God Almighty alright. But by second heaven context, "Jehovah" is far more all encompassing that what has been formerly anticipated. Humanity could not possibly come to scientifically evolve on earth in the known Universe unless there were an initial birthless and deathless Super Intelligent Creator in the first place. It's not just a matter of accepting whether we could exist by random chance. "Intelligence" and all that it is to be human simply cannot evolve to manifest itself from space dust, plasma clouds and star light.
"...Sittin' downtown in a railway station, One Toke Over The Line..."
"...Sittin' downtown in a railway station, One Toke Over The Line..."
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
Nice!
Not to freak anyone out too much, but by extension of what happened to me in 1999 it's quite evident that there really will be a soon and sudden end of tenable time in socioeconomic, debts/costs over potential profit margin terms for all capital markets worldwide. It makes too much sense and fits the subtle particulars of how supply and demand economics operates. The relatively long 'Christmas Morning' of industrial and technological innovation (blessings) that have been poured out over the last 100-150 yrs is about to come to a mass marketable end. The 'Toys' of technology will quickly begin to lose their luster, as nothing new in ergo-functionally practical mass marketable terms will emerge sufficently to sustain all market activity. Soon and suddenly the debt ceiling can rise no further without discrediting the whole picture worldwide. We all see what's going on everywhere that fits this scenario to a 'T'. '08' was the first trump. The Big Bills will come due, swallowing up all traditional models enabling any time leveraging profit potential for any investment strategy. Leveraged time becomes exhausted in terms of productivity, units of products or services sold by legally binding commitment to sustain a profit margin over costs or debts. A threshold will be crossed over even rendiering the hourly wage as meaninglessly inoperable. Synbolically similar to the crossing over astronomically that will signal a new beginning according to the Maya prophesy. 2012 will certainly be a pivotally crucial election year. And as they say, only hindsight is 2020. Another election year... and end of time that actually makes plausible sense and could actually happen. Hmmmm. Ponderous, man. Really ponderous...
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
Ive heard tell that the only way to escape death and rebirth and to return to "god, energy, origin of consciousness" is to give up all attachments, to even give up your own identity, to become less human, and more being... more consciousness. If and when you accomplish this, if you can hold on to it until you die, when you die you aren't reborn, you return to the original state of being... instead of returning to suffering (life).
Imagine life as one big neverending game, when you beat it (or die if you may) you just start all over again, experiencing pain and the suffering of playing the game all over again. That only when you make the decision that you want to stop playing the game, is when you can finally return to the origin of eternal peace, harmony and happiness. That everything and everyone around you is constantly telling you, play the game play the game, don't stop playing the game because i cant stop, do this, do that, eat this, drink that... that we really don't really have the ability to make any conscious decisions at all, that the only true conscious decision we can make is to just... stop. to just... be. To refuse to play the game, to decide to go home. (inevitably dieing of dehydration)
I dont know, i have no idea. I refuse to have faith in something that i do not know, because i understand that there is always the possibility of it not being true. I have no beliefs, i only have ideas. I have no faith, only uncertainty. I refuse to lie to myself, i refuse the satisfaction of pretending to know something i don't... or pretending to understand something I don't. I have the ability to give my life meaning and understanding in any way i want, and i choose to do it with as much honesty within myself as i can muster.
Because i don't know, i will always be living my life in some sort of fear. Though i can choose to not be afraid in spite of that fear (courage), or i can choose to pretend that i am not scared (faith). I choose honesty, i choose to be courageous in the face of my fear, im not going to pretend that it isn't there because it is.
So i choose to live my life under one main factor that dictates how i react to each and every situation,
If by chance, we do have life after this. If by chance we don't just cease to be, cease to exist. I am a firm believer that IF this is true (though i do not claim to know) that what i do in this lifetime... good or bad, just or evil... will have a direct effect on how my existence will be next time around. (if that's what happens, i do not know)
Understanding that i do not know, and understanding that is exactly where fear comes from... i can choose to face it with courage instead of faith.
Treat people the way i want to be treated, live every moment as if it could be my last, because i will never gain the ability to understand or know what is going to happen when i die.
Imagine life as one big neverending game, when you beat it (or die if you may) you just start all over again, experiencing pain and the suffering of playing the game all over again. That only when you make the decision that you want to stop playing the game, is when you can finally return to the origin of eternal peace, harmony and happiness. That everything and everyone around you is constantly telling you, play the game play the game, don't stop playing the game because i cant stop, do this, do that, eat this, drink that... that we really don't really have the ability to make any conscious decisions at all, that the only true conscious decision we can make is to just... stop. to just... be. To refuse to play the game, to decide to go home. (inevitably dieing of dehydration)
I dont know, i have no idea. I refuse to have faith in something that i do not know, because i understand that there is always the possibility of it not being true. I have no beliefs, i only have ideas. I have no faith, only uncertainty. I refuse to lie to myself, i refuse the satisfaction of pretending to know something i don't... or pretending to understand something I don't. I have the ability to give my life meaning and understanding in any way i want, and i choose to do it with as much honesty within myself as i can muster.
Because i don't know, i will always be living my life in some sort of fear. Though i can choose to not be afraid in spite of that fear (courage), or i can choose to pretend that i am not scared (faith). I choose honesty, i choose to be courageous in the face of my fear, im not going to pretend that it isn't there because it is.
So i choose to live my life under one main factor that dictates how i react to each and every situation,
If by chance, we do have life after this. If by chance we don't just cease to be, cease to exist. I am a firm believer that IF this is true (though i do not claim to know) that what i do in this lifetime... good or bad, just or evil... will have a direct effect on how my existence will be next time around. (if that's what happens, i do not know)
Understanding that i do not know, and understanding that is exactly where fear comes from... i can choose to face it with courage instead of faith.
Treat people the way i want to be treated, live every moment as if it could be my last, because i will never gain the ability to understand or know what is going to happen when i die.
"Behold, I come as a thief."-? Sounds about right to me. Though admittedly the context doesn't exactly equate what could be regarded as comforting. Far to much fits the overall theme to list here. So I'll just leave it by repeating what Jesus said, "Watch!"
Unto all the world for a, "witness". Experiencing 'IT' for yourself speaks louder than any words.
Unto all the world for a, "witness". Experiencing 'IT' for yourself speaks louder than any words.
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
ahhh, as it is far more comforting to have faith than it is to have courage.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
...maybe faith is what courage was?
There's nothing really conflicting with what you're saying here and the point I and others make. Reality is, period! The whole idea is strict adhereance to the absolute whole truth and nothing but whatsoever. Hard pan scientific fact. "Belief" in fact pertains to a subconscious clinical hypnosis context that all humans are bound to and cannot avoid. It's how we're built. Even an atheist believes there isn't any such thing as a God. and what conflicts is the theological doctrine of thhe first heaven condition paints a picture that it's possible to believe or not. To be godly, or not. When the second heaven condition will render such faith as meaningless. Where there's all these religions that believe each other are heretical, or not really saved to some degree or other, etc. And such is why the first heaven will pass away due to becoming no longer operable as it was in more primitive times when advanced education was less prevalent or didn't exist at all as it does today. It's not that I no longer have any fear of death, per se. I just see it differently than I did before. And actually fear it less as something completely unknown. So all the Hokus-Pokus dead rising from their graves and flesh being reanimated onto ancient souls is utter first heaven nonsense that will never happen. And many deeply religious will not like the Day of The Lord at all as a result. Faith as it has long been known will be destroyed, exactly because much of what's believed from the Bible will never happen.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
...I feel that the words in the Bible are without time. The 'events' happen on a daily basis.
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*just a note on your 2012 scenario. Here's an image I clipped somewhere in my travels. The text is unimportant, I love the comparison that is being drawn.
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
Uhh, no it doesn't. Jehovah is a mispronunciation of the Tetragrammaton, the four letter name of the Israelite god, Yod-hay-vav-hay -- YHVH or YHWH. Because of the lack of vowels, the correct pronunciation has been lost to history but there is no J sound in Hebrew and the name doesn't 'mean' anything although it shares the same root at Ehyeh or I am. It is a proper name and never supposed to be said aloud except by the high priest on special occasions. Most scholars pronounce it Yahweh. When you come across YHVH in the Tanakh, one is supposed to substitute Adonai (Lord) or Hashem (The name) or similar to avoid saying the sacred name and committing the act of blasphemy. In fact, the original charge of blasphemy was reserved for those that said this name out loud which is why some scholars think this is what Jesus did in the Temple when he said "I AM" which happens to have the same root of YHVH (but is not the same) and it is likely he said the forbidden name and did not simply say 'ehyeh' or "I am" like the Gospels claim.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
...and Adonai is Christ, is it not?
"Faith" as it has been known did involve believing in something without sufficient evidence to be very convincing. Seemingly representing something akin to supporting or enabling courage based on unrealistic ideals. Like eternal life actually means you'll never die in a practical sense. In fact I have more courage in life as a result of what happened to me in 1999 than I did before. And for ROCK SOLID reasons even a stringent atheist cannot refute. I understand, as I remember what it felt like being an atheist for all those years. Words alone will never do it for you, no matter how convincing they may sound. But experiencing it is the secret. Without a single word, The Almighty rocked my world over the course of several weeks and left me without any doubt about the matter. Unfair? Arrogant? All I know is IT really happened- FOR REAL!
LOL! Uh, yeah it does. You just managed to show that what I said is in fact true. Or how else does, "I Am" not really mean, "I Am" by some twist of interpretation???-??? And your statement is a perfect example of the whole point of why one is not to use the term that flares arrogance in others as a result. N'est pas?
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
No. It simply means lord or master. Moshiach would be Hebrew for Christ, which itself is merely the Greek word for messiah, which simply means anointed one and does not refer to any one specific individual.
The real reason The Holy Name is forbidden is according to the second half of the Primary Law, such is the, "Name" (defining particular function in all ancient tounges) of US ALL as human beings. Something akin to Identity Theft, as it were to even imply. And being a former atheist, admittedly I get a little too unconsciously lose with it. Coming across as almost disrespectful to define it.
Forgive me LORD, for i have sinned!
Forgive me LORD, for i have sinned!
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
mindphuk
Well-Known Member
No it doesn't. Sharing the same root does not make it the same and you ignored the fact that Jehovah is not considered anything but an incorrect transliteration of taking the four letters of the Tetragrammaton and adding the vowels points for Adonai, something that was done to indicate the reader is supposed to substitute Adonai in place for the holy name.
Ehyeh asher ehyeh (Hebrew: אהיה אשר אהיה
is the first of three responses given to Moses when he asks for God's name (Exodus 3:14). It is one of the most famous verses in the Hebrew Bible. The Tetragrammaton itself derives from the same verbal root. The King James version of the Bible translates the Hebrew as "I Am that I Am" and uses it as a proper name for God. The Aramaic Targum Onkelos leaves the phrase untranslated and is so quoted in the Talmud (B. B. 73a).
Ehyeh is the first-person singular imperfect form of hayah, "to be". Ehyeh is usually translated "I will be", since the imperfect tense in Hebrew denotes actions that are not yet completed (e.g. Exodus 3:12, "Certainly I will be [ehyeh] with thee.").[3] Asher is an ambiguous pronoun which can mean, depending on context, "that", "who", "which", or "where".[3]
Although Ehyeh asher ehyeh is generally rendered in English "I am that I am", better renderings might be "I will be what I will be" or "I will be who I will be", or "I shall prove to be whatsoever I shall prove to be" or even "I will be because I will be".[4] In these renderings, the phrase becomes an open-ended gloss on God's promise in Exodus 3:12. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am
is the first of three responses given to Moses when he asks for God's name (Exodus 3:14). It is one of the most famous verses in the Hebrew Bible. The Tetragrammaton itself derives from the same verbal root. The King James version of the Bible translates the Hebrew as "I Am that I Am" and uses it as a proper name for God. The Aramaic Targum Onkelos leaves the phrase untranslated and is so quoted in the Talmud (B. B. 73a).Ehyeh is the first-person singular imperfect form of hayah, "to be". Ehyeh is usually translated "I will be", since the imperfect tense in Hebrew denotes actions that are not yet completed (e.g. Exodus 3:12, "Certainly I will be [ehyeh] with thee.").[3] Asher is an ambiguous pronoun which can mean, depending on context, "that", "who", "which", or "where".[3]
Although Ehyeh asher ehyeh is generally rendered in English "I am that I am", better renderings might be "I will be what I will be" or "I will be who I will be", or "I shall prove to be whatsoever I shall prove to be" or even "I will be because I will be".[4] In these renderings, the phrase becomes an open-ended gloss on God's promise in Exodus 3:12. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_that_I_Am
Now this is interesting to consider. How can there be an, "anointed one" here on earth without such referring to a specific individual? Ahh- because God Almighty, though One overall, represents a, "WE" in practice here on earth. A.K.A. All humanity. It's the only perspective that makes logical sense and fits both the Primary Law and Gen 1:26. So indeed, by today's measure, Jesus was indeed the evil one who claimed, "I Am" himself, even before Abraham. Big mistake! Lest per the Trinity, why did Jesus not cry out on the Cross, "God, oh our God. Why hast thou forsaken us?"-???