Right to Work

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Here are some very interesting things I ran across..Can these be disproved ??

Working Families in States with “Right to Work” Laws Earn Lower Wages

  • On average, workers in states with “Right to Work” law earn $5,538 a year less than workers in states without these laws.
“Right to Work” States Spend Less on Education

  • Right-to-Work states spend $2,671 less per pupil on elementary and secondary education than free-bargaining states.
“Right to Work” States Have Higher Workplace Fatality Rates

  • According to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the rate of workplace deaths is 52.9% higher in states with Right-to-Work laws.
“Right to Work” Laws Don’t Improve Living Standards – Unions Improve Living Standards

  • Overall, union members earn 28 percent ($198.00 more per week than nonunion workers. Hispanic union members earn 50 percent ($258.00 more each week than nonunion Hispanics and African Americans earn 29 percent ($168.00 more each week if they are union members.
  • 78 percent of private sector union workers have access to medical insurance through their jobs, compared with 51 percent of nonunion workers. And 77 percent of private sector union workers have access to a guaranteed (defined benefit) retirement plan through their jobs, compared with just 20 percent of nonunion workers.
  • Only 2.9 percent of union workers are uninsured, compared with 14.2 percent of nonunion workers.
If you earn $10,000 more per year, but your expenses are $15,000 more per year, are you actually making more? A nice 2 bedroom Apartment in Sioux City costs approx $1200 a month, a nice 2 bedroom in Manhattan costs $6,000,see the difference?

If the teachers in RTW states aren't in a higher paid union then it only makes sense that they spend less on each child's education. Can you prove that children educated in RTW states are less educated or more stupid than the ones from unionized states? didn't think so.

If I buy a new Corvette for $5 Million and its just the regular showroom model and you buy one for $40,000, exact same model, who do you think got a better deal? Obviously me right? After all I spent more money.

Everyone knows Unions are magical and prevent accidents from Happening, kind of like having your own personal Jesus. Prove that the higher rate of workplace injuries is DIRECTLY and INCONTROVERTIBLY linked to non unionization.

Your last point has nothing to do with RTW states and is nothing but a rehash of "Unions make more" than poor fuckers do. If I make more, but my cost of living is also much more than that doesn't mean you have a better standard of living. With $100 a month I could move to Somalia and have a much much higher standard of living comparatively to the rest of the population.
 

tomahawk2406

Well-Known Member
As someone who has worked in union jobs and non union jobs and has worked in the north (PA) and the south (TX,OK), I can say from experience that the non union jobs I had were much better working environments. Especially for people that do not need constant supervision, care about doing the job right and want to help the company to be successful. In union jobs, most will only do the bare minimum to keep their job, they bitch constantly about how terrible management is and will lie, cheat and steal at a much higher rate than non union shops.
What good does higher union wages help if the cost of living is such that you NEED higher wages just to keep living?
Most union workers that I have seen, are overpaid, some, grossly so.
I have been fired from one non union job for no good reason. I don't know why anybody would want to work at a place where they are not wanted. If you have a boss that would fire you for wearing an orange shirt then you should be looking for a different job.
I have been fired/let go from two union jobs for the following reasons:
1) The first time I lost my union job was when I put my name in to bid on another job within the same plant. The union rep told me to be considered for the new position, I would have resign my old position. Yeah, I fell for it, I was only 19 at the time and didn't know that union reps lie. I gave up my old job and was promptly told that the new position was "taken down" meaning that the new job no longer existed. Thank you United Electrical Workers.
2) The second union job to fire me for no good reason was the Teamsters. While driving a company vehicle, I was run into. The company sent me for a drug test. I was overheard by a union rep that I was concerned about passing the test, even though, under the contract at the time, I could not be fired for failing a drug test if I volunteered to go to rehab. Anyway, the union rep went to the boss and the next day I was fired. Oh by the way, my test results were negative. The union gave me the run around for nine months then called me to offer my job back at 75% of my old wage and another 90 day probation period where you CAN be fired for any reason or no reason. Can you guess what I told them?
3) The non union job I got fired from was not nearly as underhanded and chicken shit as the treatment I received from the unions. A company hired my associate and I to objectively investigate the company's financial situation, pinpoint problem areas and make suggestions as to where and how to apply remedies. As it happens many times in these scenarios, the owners did not like what we had to say, so they fired us. They were out of business within 6 months.
4) I have been a member in good standing with 5 unions. UEW, Teamsters, Boilermakers, Iron Workers and the Steelworkers. In all of these jobs, all I have seen is a bunch of union thugs protecting their incompetent buddies while throwing anyone else under the bus when convenient.
5) Even though my experiences with unions has been negative, I still believe it is up to the people of each state to decide whether or not to be RTW or not. I would obviously choose RTW.
6) The only objection I have is unions for public employees because there is a clear conflict of interests.
I think people should negotiate their own contracts with employers. If I am better at a job than another, I should be compensated better. In union shops you hear "slow down, you're making us all look bad" a lot.
If you are so incompetent that you NEED a union to stay employed, you probably should find a different kind of work.
I have also witnessed dangerous conditions that union reps hide in order to prevent someone from getting fired.

unions are so touchy with me I'm totally a fence sitter on this. However what you said is totally true. My buddy worked a local pipe fitter union in CT and he said it was just political bullshit. bunch old guys looking and waiting for you to sneeze the wrong way so they can get rid of you. why? my friend told me straight up because they get bored and enjoy filling their lives with soap opera bullshit. and especially if your young. I just quit my full time job to go back to school and got a 30 hour a week part time job at a rubber mill in ct non union and i have to say its a fuckin great place to work. they started me at 10.00 and are chill as hell. All the guys that work there are happy with their lives and enjoy their work environment.

in the same breath i lean towards voting against it.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
unions are so touchy with me I'm totally a fence sitter on this. However what you said is totally true. My buddy worked a local pipe fitter union in CT and he said it was just political bullshit. bunch old guys looking and waiting for you to sneeze the wrong way so they can get rid of you. why? my friend told me straight up because they get bored and enjoy filling their lives with soap opera bullshit. and especially if your young. I just quit my full time job to go back to school and got a 30 hour a week part time job at a rubber mill in ct non union and i have to say its a fuckin great place to work. they started me at 10.00 and are chill as hell. All the guys that work there are happy with their lives and enjoy their work environment.

in the same breath i lean towards voting against it.
you can make 10 dollars at Wal-mart... You must not have any kids or wife living off 10 dollars an hour.. what benefits they offer .. ??
 

tomahawk2406

Well-Known Member
you can make 10 dollars at Wal-mart... You must not have any kids or wife living off 10 dollars an hour.. what benefits they offer .. ??
walmart offers 8.25. i have a few friends that work there. it may depend on your official job title, but i know cashiers make minima wage. no benefits for part timers but i can get all the OT i want, 12 paid time off days a year, and they work with my school schedule and my hardball league schedule. i can't really ask for more. i do tree work on the weekend with my buddy and ill get a few hundred bucks every weekend........ thats not really reliable but it helps.


and no family .........just me and my women and my cat pj ;)
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
walmart offers 8.25. i have a few friends that work there. it may depend on your official job title, but i know cashiers make minima wage. no benefits for part timers but i can get all the OT i want, 12 paid time off days a year, and they work with my school schedule and my hardball league schedule. i can't really ask for more. i do tree work on the weekend with my buddy and ill get a few hundred bucks every weekend........ thats not really reliable but it helps.
Get luck with school guy... Stay focus and make that your main goal, but I am correct in assuming that you have no kids..right ???
 

missnu

Well-Known Member
What right is lost by Right to Work?



I'm not convinced that it is "easier to fire you," because most states still have termination laws. My state is at-will employment, but they still can't fire you for illegal reasons.

I fully expect those without a monopoly union to have lower wages and fewer benefits, often times unions are as greedy as the corporations they claim protect you from. The more "abusive" employers would be something you will have to prove to me.

The only legitimate point you made is the point about nonunion members are covered by the benefits of the union by federal law. Makes it interesting.

BTW, I'm not going to news outlets to get my "education" about right to work. I've been trying to find the bill text.
Awww man...I worked in a factory in the south and for real...it is heinous...The bosses would come through at the end of the shift and pretty much say if you don't want to stay then don't come back tomorrow, and this has to be out before this time and you can't leave til it is done....and if you complained they would explain that we were at will employment and we could be fired at any time for any reason and it didn't really matter. minimum wage...crazy hours...no benefits...awful awful place to work...and it is legal...Oh my god...I quit after a boss/friend got her foot ripped off by a forklift...it ran her over and the girl driving freaked out and kept hitting the gas and it literally ripped all the skin and muscle off her foot and I was like hell no! So not only do i work too long with shitty people doing crappy work standing the whole time for almost no money but now you are telling me there is a chance I could lose a limb? A limb? Carpal tunnel I can understand, but I am not up for only buying one shoe or glove...
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Awww man...I worked in a factory in the south and for real...it is heinous...The bosses would come through at the end of the shift and pretty much say if you don't want to stay then don't come back tomorrow, and this has to be out before this time and you can't leave til it is done....and if you complained they would explain that we were at will employment and we could be fired at any time for any reason and it didn't really matter. minimum wage...crazy hours...no benefits...awful awful place to work...and it is legal...Oh my god...I quit after a boss/friend got her foot ripped off by a forklift...it ran her over and the girl driving freaked out and kept hitting the gas and it literally ripped all the skin and muscle off her foot and I was like hell no! So not only do i work too long with shitty people doing crappy work standing the whole time for almost no money but now you are telling me there is a chance I could lose a limb? A limb? Carpal tunnel I can understand, but I am not up for only buying one shoe or glove...
I assume you quit? Why did you take the job in the first place? The gal with the missing foot is set for life I presume?
 

missnu

Well-Known Member
Awww man...I worked in a factory in the south and for real...it is heinous...The bosses would come through at the end of the shift and pretty much say if you don't want to stay then don't come back tomorrow, and this has to be out before this time and you can't leave til it is done....and if you complained they would explain that we were at will employment and we could be fired at any time for any reason and it didn't really matter. minimum wage...crazy hours...no benefits...awful awful place to work...and it is legal...Oh my god...I quit after a boss/friend got her foot ripped off by a forklift...it ran her over and the girl driving freaked out and kept hitting the gas and it literally ripped all the skin and muscle off her foot and I was like hell no! So not only do i work too long with shitty people doing crappy work standing the whole time for almost no money but now you are telling me there is a chance I could lose a limb? A limb? Carpal tunnel I can understand, but I am not up for only buying one shoe or glove...
I complained and outworked everyone well enough to get a raise and I'll be damned if a few months later minimum wage went up and everyone got a "raise" but not if you already were above the minimum line...so that sucks. If I am getting paid extra for doing more work and alternate jobs or whatever should I not also get a raise?...Dicks...Jeez anyway...at will employment...you are willing on unemployed...
 

missnu

Well-Known Member
I assume you quit? Why did you take the job in the first place? The gal with the missing foot is set for life I presume?
I am not sure...she sounded really tired the last time I talked to her about it...I just worry that she won't get a lawyer or something...but i am sure her family will make sure she gets paid...it was the most terrifying thing ever...I mean what?!
 

tomahawk2406

Well-Known Member
Don't take London's advice. Do lots of drugs, stay out all night, fuck everything that moves and just barely squeek by a passing grade. You only live once.
black flags first record is one of my favorite albums of all time. i keep that motto to some degree lol. i get stoned for my after effects classes. keeps my mind open to designing shit.
 

missnu

Well-Known Member
I assume you quit? Why did you take the job in the first place? The gal with the missing foot is set for life I presume?
Well I am mostly a mom with large gaps in my employment and most places are like no thanks...Lol. I mean jeez...what...?! But this place hires anyone that comes in...and it is kinda fun to meet people and hang out...I didn't have as much stress with it because i am not the breadwinner of the house...and as I said I was above a lot of the standard bullshit as i just had the ability to outwork anyone else...but after that it was like...wow...not worth the social outlet...
 

merkzilla

Active Member
30 kids a class 5 classes
150 homework assignements to grade
Yeah 5 hours a day my ass

And really you think someone who spends a total of 5 years in college for a teaching degree with continuing education doesnt deserve 61 k?
wtf honestly where do you people come from?
Yeah, don't know where you're from. I live in a surprisingly nice area where teachers make quite a bit. With that said, the majority of teachers use 'teachers assistants' or 'teacher aides' forget the exact term, but they were kids who would give up their study hall and... ready for it... grade homeworks, tests and some teachers would even have them grade essays. Midterms and finals were done on scan tron, so no actual grading there.

I had a precalc teacher who had no quizzes, no homework to avoid grading homework. The only score in the class was showing up and about 4 tests a year. That guy was mentally unstable and would go off on students for asking questions, every year parents would file complaints about the guy but nothing really happened.

I'm not saying I didn't have teachers who graded themselves, I did (mostly science and english). I'd venture to say though, most of the teachers avoided giving homework that wasn't multiple choice or couldn't be graded by a teachers aide.
 

sync0s

Well-Known Member
Yeah, don't know where you're from. I live in a surprisingly nice area where teachers make quite a bit. With that said, the majority of teachers use 'teachers assistants' or 'teacher aides' forget the exact term, but they were kids who would give up their study hall and... ready for it... grade homeworks, tests and some teachers would even have them grade essays. Midterms and finals were done on scan tron, so no actual grading there.

I had a precalc teacher who had no quizzes, no homework to avoid grading homework. The only score in the class was showing up and about 4 tests a year. That guy was mentally unstable and would go off on students for asking questions, every year parents would file complaints about the guy but nothing really happened.

I'm not saying I didn't have teachers who graded themselves, I did (mostly science and english). I'd venture to say though, most of the teachers avoided giving homework that wasn't multiple choice or couldn't be graded by a teachers aide.
I was a T.A. in two computer classes for 3 years before I dropped out. Did exactly that. It was cool, I liked it.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Yeah, don't know where you're from. I live in a surprisingly nice area where teachers make quite a bit. With that said, the majority of teachers use 'teachers assistants' or 'teacher aides' forget the exact term, but they were kids who would give up their study hall and... ready for it... grade homeworks, tests and some teachers would even have them grade essays. Midterms and finals were done on scan tron, so no actual grading there.

I had a precalc teacher who had no quizzes, no homework to avoid grading homework. The only score in the class was showing up and about 4 tests a year. That guy was mentally unstable and would go off on students for asking questions, every year parents would file complaints about the guy but nothing really happened.

I'm not saying I didn't have teachers who graded themselves, I did (mostly science and english). I'd venture to say though, most of the teachers avoided giving homework that wasn't multiple choice or couldn't be graded by a teachers aide.
I once had a Humanities class that I finally figured out was being graded if you did the assignment or not. no tests, just essays and such. If you did them you got 100%, didn't matter if they were pure gibberish at all, he didn't actually grade them. I also had a class that I only came to once, the day they gave the final. I got a B, but only because the professor was pissed I aced the final and never once came to hear his drivel.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Now I see why you said lead paint was not harmful:shock:
It isn't, its only harmful if it gets inside your body. Just like those bullets you put in your Glock. You did know that most bullets were made of lead right? And you TOUCH them when loading your magazines!!! OMG you are going to DIE DIE DIE!!!!
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
It isn't, its only harmful if it gets inside your body. Just like those bullets you put in your Glock. You did know that most bullets were made of lead right? And you TOUCH them when loading your magazines!!! OMG you are going to DIE DIE DIE!!!!
Well with that logic AIDS nor cancer is harmful either, unless you get it. Come on Nodrama stop it.
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Well with that logic AIDS nor cancer is harmful either, unless you get it. Come on Nodrama stop it.
You COULD be breathing the minute particles of lead that MUST be emanating from your gun locker. You are going to die one day!! I fucking will bet you any amount of money you care to wager that says I am right.


The biggest danger from lead based paint was the fact that chipping paint and walls with little maintenance had chips that were being eaten by infants who tend to put everything in their mouths by nature. Guess what? it never killed a large amount of people because MOST humans don't put any and everything in their mouth (there are whores on the strip who will, but I digress). Also, they have newer safer paint today, its mostly a moot point now.
 
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