A tax analogy, who's really paying their fair share?

[Mr Neutron]

No, I really do not understand how in a Real Democracy, not this sham of a nation but you all seem to believe the illusion so in a nation that has a habit of bringing Democracy to the rest of the world how taxes decided upon by a majority would be theft of the minority in opposition.

The minimum wage you are referring to is set and controlled by Big Corp in the interest of Big Corp. He is referring to a completely different system in which the minimum wage would be set in the interest of the society -details you know?

Again, I ask... what democracy?

 

[Canna Sylvan]

Again, I ask... what democracy?

This is her REAL democracy and not the sham she complains about.

 

[TogTokes]

Ind, repubs, democrats, all a bunch of liars and cheats..

Politricks is for the birds.

 

[UncleBuck]

Why, then, does the IRS, itself, say that compliance is voluntary?
Why has nobody ever been able to produce the law, statute or regulation that states that wages are subject to taxation?
Why did the Supreme Court say, "the 16th amendment gives no new power of taxation"?
What is the definition of income, when it comes to the 16th amend., income tax and the IRS?

waaaaahhhhhhhhh!

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

 

[MellowFarmer]

Again, I ask... what democracy?

No, I really do not understand how in a Real Democracy, not this sham of a nation but you all seem to believe the illusion so in a nation that has a habit of bringing Democracy to the rest of the world how taxes decided upon by a majority would be theft of the minority in opposition.

Why are people bothering to debate things like taxes if they know we don't live in a country that cares what the people think then?

 

[Red1966]

i am not a fan of penalizing success. nor am i a fan of plutocracy. and although i am not a fan of raising taxes, i do believe there does need to be major tax reform. the richest person in your analogy pays at a higher rate than all the rest. but the richest among us in real life (not your analogy) pay a lesser rate. romney is not even in the top 1%, he is in the top 0.006% of earners. yet if we put him in you analogy, he would be paying at a lesser rate than the 5th poorest person there. i mean, the guys pays 13% in taxes on his 20 million. canna sylvan and me (when i'm working those desk jobs) pay closer 25% in taxes on our $30k. so your analogy in not analogous, and to call it an analogy is an insult to analogies. a better analogy would be this: 1000 people attend a catering event. 6 of them are rich beyond your wildest dreams, they are richer than more than the bottom 800 or so attendees combined. the other 994 people range from dirt poor to pretty fucking rich. to pay for the event, which includes unlimited opportunity for good food, the filthy rich are charged $13 dollars to enter while the rest are charged anywhere from $35 for the well off, $30 for the not so well off but still getting by, $15 for the next to broke, $5 for the poverty folks, and $0 for the few truly poor. that's more analogous to how our current system works. we all put in for the success of the nation, some more than others, and at certain rates. the super rich pay about what the working poor do. the middle and upper class pay way more, and the few at the bottom pay nothing and even get a free ride.

Made all that up, didn't ya?

 

[Red1966]

I'll tell you what Bucky, you claiming to pay 25% federal taxes on only 30k annual income tells me you have no clue of what you're talking about, it's an utterly ridiculous claim. Not only are you full of shit on this issue, after that comment, I doubt seriously you've ever paid federal income taxes in your life. I see you as nothing but a big mouth progressive hack.

Buck doesn't have a job, he sponges off his in-laws. I make more than $30k and pay less than 25%. I don't get any deductions, exemptions, etc.

 

[MellowFarmer]

Made all that up, didn't ya?

Buck doesn't have a job, he sponges off his in-laws. I make more than $30k and pay less than 25%. I don't get any deductions, exemptions, etc.

Red, if you've been having difficulties in life may I point to your belief that anyone who says things that you don't know are true must be making it up.

 

[Red1966]

i'll produce my tax return when you produce a photo that is not of you abusing innocent plants or diddling kids.

So when you volunteered to post your tax returns before, now suddenly it's somehow his fault that you haven't done so?

 

[UncleBuck]

Made all that up, didn't ya?

Buck doesn't have a job, he sponges off his in-laws. I make more than $30k and pay less than 25%. I don't get any deductions, exemptions, etc.

So when you volunteered to post your tax returns before, now suddenly it's somehow his fault that you haven't done so?

lol, you're so awesome. wait until you get to the post where i display my pay stub.

 

[Red1966]

i mean, he called me out for not posting my taxes, and i posted them quite clearly. then he goes on to talk about killing the poor and killing anyone who wants to support the poor in an organized fashion. i mean, i could understand voting against helping the poor schemes i disagree with, but to kill the people who support them and benefit from them "righteously"? that kid is psycho and needs major help.

You did not post your taxes. You posted what may or may hot be a pay stub.

 

[Red1966]

How can taxes be theft in a Democracy?

Four people vote to rob a fifth at gunpoint. Just because a majority vote for it doesn't change what it is.

 

[Red1966]

Red, if you've been having difficulties in life may I point to your belief that anyone who says things that you don't know are true must be making it up. View attachment 2186164

Who says I'm having difficulties?. Those are marginal rates in your pic. Not the actual tax. Have you ever done your own tax return? Or do you go to H&R Block to pay them to file your 1040EZ?

 

[Red1966]

Red, if you've been having difficulties in life may I point to your belief that anyone who says things that you don't know are true must be making it up. View attachment 2186164

I quote "a better analogy would be this: 1000 people attend a catering event. 6 of them are rich beyond your wildest dreams, they are richer than more than the bottom 800 or so attendees combined. the other 994 people range from dirt poor to pretty fucking rich. to pay for the event, which includes unlimited opportunity for good food, the filthy rich are charged $13 dollars to enter while the rest are charged anywhere from $35 for the well off, $30 for the not so well off but still getting by, $15 for the next to broke, $5 for the poverty folks, and $0 for the few truly poor. that's more analogous to how our current system works. we all put in for the success of the nation, some more than others, and at certain rates. the super rich pay about what the working poor do. the middle and upper class pay way more, and the few at the bottom pay nothing and even get a free ride." analogy=he made up an example. Just because you want to believe, doesn't make it true.

 

[MsJazzy]

Imagine the following:

Ten good friends go out for dinner at a restaurant every night. The combined bill for the ten totals $200. Since they all make differing amounts of money they decide that they divide the payment as follows:

The four first - the poorest of the lot - don't pay at all.
The fifth pays $2.
The sixth pays $6.
The seventh pays $14.
The eigth pays $24.
The ninth pays $36.
The tenth and the richest pays $118.

They were all pretty content with this way of splitting the bill and they went out to eat together every day. One day, however, the restaurant's owner decided he'd give them a discount.

"Since you're such good customers", he said, "I'll give you a discount of $40." The ten's dinner would then cost $160. The group of friends decided they still wanted to keep splitting the check in the same fashion as previously. Therefore, the four first - whom paid nothing - were not affected and could keep eating for free. But how would the remaining six - those who were paying - divide the cost amongst them? How were they to split the value of the discount so that everyone got their fair share? The six realized that $40 divided by six equals $6.66. However, if they subtracted that amount from each person's share - the fifth and the sixth persons would get paid to go out and eat (by paying a negative amount).

The restaurant owner suggested that it'd be fair to reduce each person's share roughly proportionally and he crunched the numbers to calculate the amount each person was to pay. He came to the conclusion that the fifth person too could eat free - just like the 1st through 4th did originally -, the sixth was to pay $4, the seventh $10, the eigth $18, the ninth $24 and the tenth $104 in contrast to his previous $118.

As a result, ALL SIX paid a lower price than before and the four who paid nothing originally kept paying nothing.

But one night after finishing their dinner, they all started comparing what they had saved. "I only saved $2 of the discount's total value of $40", said the sixth person. Then he turned and pointed to the tenth person who still paid the lion's share and said "But he saved $14!". "That's right", concurred the fifth person and added "I too only saved $2! It's unfair he saved seven times the amount I did". "That's right!", the seventh person yelled. "Why should he save $14 when I only saved $4? The rich always get the unfair advantage!". Then the four first - who never payed a penny - cried "Wait a minute! We didn't save anything at all from the discount! This system exploits and takes advantage of the poor!".

The first nine persons then jumped the tenth and beat him up. The following night, he didn't show up for dinner - causing the other nine to sit down and eat without him. When the check arrived they realized a little something. They were $104 short to pay for dinner.
Why Rick Santorum Should Be President

This is a totally irrelevant analogy..

 

[MellowFarmer]

Four people vote to rob a fifth at gunpoint. Just because a majority vote for it doesn't change what it is.

That is a horrible analogy. The 5 people would need to comprise a society and then if 4 voted to rob the 5th by gunpoint he'd have prior knowledge that he was going to be robbed by gunpoint by the rest of his society. Try again.

 

[MellowFarmer]

I quote "a better analogy would be this: 1000 people attend a catering event. 6 of them are rich beyond your wildest dreams, they are richer than more than the bottom 800 or so attendees combined. the other 994 people range from dirt poor to pretty fucking rich. to pay for the event, which includes unlimited opportunity for good food, the filthy rich are charged $13 dollars to enter while the rest are charged anywhere from $35 for the well off, $30 for the not so well off but still getting by, $15 for the next to broke, $5 for the poverty folks, and $0 for the few truly poor. that's more analogous to how our current system works. we all put in for the success of the nation, some more than others, and at certain rates. the super rich pay about what the working poor do. the middle and upper class pay way more, and the few at the bottom pay nothing and even get a free ride." analogy=he made up an example. Just because you want to believe, doesn't make it true.

I'm confused what your point is but that is a much more accurate analogy.

 

[Red1966]

That is a horrible analogy. The 5 people would need to comprise a society and then if 4 voted to rob the 5th by gunpoint he'd have prior knowledge that he was going to be robbed by gunpoint by the rest of his society. Try again.

Why would they "need to comprise a society"? How many need to be there to meet your definition? What does "prior knowledge" have to do with it? The USA decided to allow the enslavement of Blacks early in our history. Did we not rob them of their freedom, the results of their labor, their history, their very lives? Nazi Germany was a Democracy. You approve of these democratic actions?

 

[NoDrama]

waaaaahhhhhhhhh!

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

You are looking at the wrong word. This isn't about the source of the money, but the "Income".

Example: You purchase US Silver eagles in 2002 for $5 a piece, you buy 2000 of them for a total expenditure of $10,000. Fast forward to August 2011 when you sell all 2000 US Silver eagles for $45 a piece($90,000), giving you a profit of $80,000. How much tax do you owe?

 

[Harrekin]

You are looking at the wrong word. This isn't about the source of the money, but the "Income".

Example: You purchase US Silver eagles in 2002 for $5 a piece, you buy 2000 of them for a total expenditure of $10,000. Fast forward to August 2011 when you sell all 2000 US Silver eagles for $45 a piece($90,000), giving you a profit of $80,000. How much tax do you owe?

Over here you'd pay 22% VAT to purchase them, then when you sell them you pay 22% again plus capital gains of 15% on your profits.

Over there you pay 0% I believe?

Ahh, the price of socialism.