"he died for your freedoms"

[Padawanbater2]

I was in the Marines from 2006-2010. I was a tank mechanic with 1st Tank Battalion, stationed in 29 Palms. In a twist I desperately sought to avoid, I never got deployed at the height of our troop increase. These days, I ask myself "Would I really feel like I did what is right by killing someone over there?". Honestly, that is a question that haunts me after I've been out for two years.

When I first joined, I was an impressionable 18 year old. I was told what I was doing was a great service to my fellow countryman. I didn't do it for god or country, I genuinely thought I was keeping the boogeyman at bay, if you will. That's the perspective that most of these people who give our troops so much shit, lack; the same people who shot an afghani woman in the face due to a fucked up EOF preocedure, were the same men who I watched cry themselves to sleep at night. They have wives and children too, it isn't like most of these folks are mowing down a playground and laughing in a sinister way. These are just scared high-schoolers who think they are protecting our asses. We all took an oath to "Defend the constitution against all enemies, both foreign an domestic", when we signed up. When I was in, that was taken to mean "fighting over in the middles east".

There's alot to it, and I'd be happy to talk about more specific points. That is the gist of what I saw though.

Stories like this lend much more credence to the mentality of being in the military. Most people here in America don't realize this perspective. You are still a kid at 18, that has to be taken into account. When I was 18, I was just like you, impressionable, naive, ready to raise fuckin' hell! It took more than 2 years of constant study to realize why that perspective was wrong, and even longer to understand the propaganda machine, something equally as strong as the war machine itself. American media is the 4th wing of government in the states. Accountable to no one, responsible for nothing, hiding behind the guise of free speech and political correctness. Every "journalist" that works for a major news outlet should be ashamed of themselves. They're the ones who got us into war.

If you had killed someone, how would you feel today?

Be glad you didn't, that weight is unbearable to most. While you'll ask yourself that hundreds of times during the course of your life, actually killing someone is something you never forget (trust me).

 

[kpmarine]

Stories like this lend much more credence to the mentality of being in the military. Most people here in America don't realize this perspective. You are still a kid at 18, that has to be taken into account. When I was 18, I was just like you, impressionable, naive, ready to raise fuckin' hell! It took more than 2 years of constant study to realize why that perspective was wrong, and even longer to understand the propaganda machine, something equally as strong as the war machine itself. American media is the 4th wing of government in the states. Accountable to no one, responsible for nothing, hiding behind the guise of free speech and political correctness. Every "journalist" that works for a major news outlet should be ashamed of themselves. They're the ones who got us into war.

If you had killed someone, how would you feel today?

Be glad you didn't, that weight is unbearable to most. While you'll ask yourself that hundreds of times during the course of your life, actually killing someone is something you never forget (trust me).

That's alot of the reason why I avoid these threads. I have know many great men who get to take to the grave that they killed someone innocent. In an even more cruel twist, they were told that by killing that person they were defending America. Most people don't realize how hard that is to rationalize, because they haven't seen or dealt with it. I've gotten spit at in full uniform and called a "baby killer"; imagine how much of a mindfuck that is as a 19yo thinking he is doing this for YOU. We didn't sign up to make less than $15K USD a year gross starting, get shot at, and have politicians threaten to deny our pay for the sake of advancing personal budgetary agendas.

Though it seems cheesy, this sums up the mentality alot. Though we didn't like to think about the message too much, this song always gave us pause. (Edit, I will post it right after. RIU has been glitching out and won't let me post videos unless I jump through hoops.)

On the subject of killing someone; that has been a prominent dilemma for some time. On one hand; I wouldn't bat an eye killing someone who tried to kill my brother (In the military, not genetic, sense in this case.). On the other hand; if it was due to a fucked up EOF procedure, I don't know if I'd ever sleep right again. Even if I couldn't justify my activity in Iraq/Afghanistan, I could justify shooting you first in most cases. Only in the immediate perspective though. Which is where I think our spike in PTSD and suicide in the military now come from. Killing someone gets tricky when you can't attach a "good guy" or a "bad guy" to it. Plus, I could ramble on about various methods of justification they posses at this point.

I'm not the best at explaining all of this. I was a part of it, so I saw alot of the angles. The problem is that I can't really give everything here a sweeping answer. Like most things in life, it isn't that simple.

 

[kpmarine]

I know it's a bit corny, but listen to the message.

[video=youtube_share;_DboMAghWcA]http://youtu.be/_DboMAghWcA[/video]

 

[Padawanbater2]

I know it's a bit corny, but listen to the message.

[video=youtube_share;_DboMAghWcA]http://youtu.be/_DboMAghWcA[/video]

Beautiful song by one of my favorite bands.

Illustrates the realities of what it means to take someones life.

Rise against, and bands like them, are actually making a difference. Here's another one of my favorites;

[youtube]B1T8xgHdMEM[/youtube]

 

[kpmarine]

Beautiful song by one of my favorite bands.

Illustrates the realities of what it means to take someones life.

Rise against, and bands like them, are actually making a difference. Here's another one of my favorites;

[youtube]B1T8xgHdMEM[/youtube]

I love Rage, I wish I could have afforded to see them in LA last year when they were doing a show.

Another one that normally made some of us think a bit is "This is war" by Smile Empty Soul. It was honestly a good take on the feelings of our service members.

Remeber folks, they only fight because your elected folks told them to. It's not our (The mlitary's) job to stand up just because you don't like something (That would be martial law.). It's your job to vote in a way that keeps our future high-schoolers from getting sucked into shit like this. That's the only way to stop wars that you feel are wrong. As an arm of your elected officials, we are bound to them; and by association: you.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I love Rage, I wish I could have afforded to see them in LA last year when they were doing a show.

Another one that normally made some of us think a bit is "This is war" by Smile Empty Soul. It was honestly a good take on the feelings of our service members.

Remeber folks, they only fight because your elected folks told them to. It's not our (The mlitary's) job to stand up just because you don't like something (That would be martial law.). It's your job to vote in a way that keeps our future high-schoolers from getting sucked into shit like this. That's the only way to stop wars that you feel are wrong.

Another classic anti-war song, bro. Right there with you;

[youtube]DV8Io5iK71U[/youtube]

Hits the nail right on the head...

Have you heard Silver Star?;

[youtube]d7BT2xpHbSE[/youtube]

Profound..

I can't express how much I respect you, dude. You and so many of your servicemen who were able to see above the bullshit, you guys are the true fucking heroes of the world. Tearing up just telling you that. Thank you, so much.

 

[kpmarine]

"Die with the best of intentions, led to the end with deception." that's a brilliant line. These folks die for the glory of "Defending America". Honestly though, what do they get? Everybody wants to rip on the war, but nobody wants to admit that THEY keep electing the same congressmen that made it happen. These people didn't ship off of their own accord, voters have equal blame at this point. Every vote against someone who will end this shit is a bullet that may kill someone's 18 year old kid. It's overly dramatic, but it makes the point.

 

[Seedling]

That's the only way to stop wars that you feel are wrong. As an arm of your elected officials, we are bound to them; and by association: you.

"Stopping war" doesn't ensure a more positive future than if the war occurred. There are an infinite amount of possibilities as to the way history can be recorded. Stopping a war may have been the right thing to do under some circumstances, however, it could also prove to have DEVASTATING CONSEQUENCES under other circumstances. You have no way of knowing what an outcome will be, so enough of the "stop a war you feel is wrong." There is much more to the decision making process than simply considering emotions. Emotional decisions usually have undesirable effects!

One thing is for sure, only a moron would sit back, close their eyes, and wait for an attack.

 

[kpmarine]

"Stopping war" doesn't ensure a more positive future than if the war occurred. There are an infinite amount of possibilities as to the way history can be recorded. Stopping a war may have been the right thing to do under some circumstances, however, it could also prove to have DEVASTATING CONSEQUENCES in the end. You have no way of knowing what an outcome will be, so end enough of the "stop a war you feel is wrong." There is much more to the decision making process than simply considering emotions. Emotional decisions usually have undesirable effects!

One thing is for sure, only a moron would sit back, close their eyes, and wait for an attack.

So I should compromise what I believe is right, just because of the unknown? I genuinely don't know if farting tomorrow will prevent world peace, hasn't stopped me yet. Honestly, that's a very ambiguous statement to make.

 

[Seedling]

So I should compromise what I believe is right, just because of the unknown?

What you believe to be right? You don't even have the most current world intel as the President has. You don't know all the facts of a situation. The President makes decisions based on what the current intel is, and you can rest assure that is NOT the intel the media reports to the public.

You remind me of a a disgruntled private.

 

[kpmarine]

What you believe to be right? You don't even have the most current world intel as the President has. You don't know all the facts of a situation. The President makes decisions based on what the current intel is, and you can rest assure that is NOT the intel the media reports to the public.

You remind me of a a disgruntled private.

You remind me of a person who can't be bothered to respond to all of an argument, only portions of it. We all reminisce at times... (I can make personal attacks too.)

In all seriousness, do you have that intel? If not, you are no more informed than anyone else and have no real argument here.

 

[Seedling]

In all seriousness, do you have that intel? If not, you are no more informed than anyone else and have no real argument here.

I'm not the one going around telling people to stop a war if they feel it's wrong. You are trying to make a decision for someone and you don't know the facts!

 

[Padawanbater2]

What you believe to be right? You don't even have the most current world intel as the President has. You don't know all the facts of a situation. The President makes decisions based on what the current intel is, and you can rest assure that is NOT the intel the media reports to the public.

You remind me of a a disgruntled private.

Your entire post is assuming what is told to the American people is the truth.

If you honestly believe what the American government feeds to the American people is the truth, you are not fit to make any sort of decision regarding another persons life, and I would seriously question the decisions you make as a person.

The fact is, the American government, all 450* of them, are in it for themselves and couldn't give 2 fucks about you.

 

[kpmarine]

I'm not the one going around telling people to stop a war if they feel it's wrong. You are trying to make a decision for someone and you don't know the facts!

Please inform me of the "facts" and change my mind. I am by no means opposed to arguments based in fact.

 

[Seedling]

Your entire post is assuming what is told to the American people is the truth.

If you honestly believe what the American government feeds to the American people is the truth, you are not fit to make any sort of decision regarding another persons life, and I would seriously question the decisions you make as a person.

The fact is, the American government, all 450* of them, are in it for themselves and couldn't give 2 fucks about you.

Failed to read post #110 eh?

 

[Seedling]

Please inform me of the "facts" and change my mind. I am by no means opposed to arguments based in fact.

The government is not obligated to present you with the latest top secret intel. Leaking intel sinks ships!

 

[Padawanbater2]

What you believe to be right? You don't even have the most current world intel as the President has. You don't know all the facts of a situation. The President makes decisions based on what the current intel is, and you can rest assure that is NOT the intel the media reports to the public.

You remind me of a a disgruntled private.

Failed to read post #110 eh?

Are you telling me you trust what the American government feeds to the media and feeds to the public?

 

[Padawanbater2]

The government is not obligated to present you will the latest top secret intel. Leaking intel sinks ships!

As does absolute secrecy.

 

[kpmarine]

The government is not obligated to present you will the latest top secret intel. Leaking intel sinks ships!

So...we have blind faith as evidence? I feel like this is turning into a theist vs. atheist debate here...

 

[Seedling]

Are you telling me you trust what the American government feeds to the media and feeds to the public?

What part of "The President makes decisions based on what the current intel is, and you can rest assure that is NOT the intel the media reports to the public. " don't you understand?