Electrical help, main breakers and subpanels

[The Growery]

It's come to the point where I have maxed out all possible available circuits in my main breaker box and need to expand. I understand how to install a subpanel, what I don't understand is where the extra power is coming from. Say I wanted to run 20k watts of equipment, that would easily trip the 100A main breaker when combined with normal electricity usage upstairs.

It looks like I will need to install a panel directly from the meter. Has anyone done this? How much did it cost and do I need to call DTE to have someone come out? Are there other options?

 

[wheels619]

im in the same boat with the expansion. although my new casa has 220 already wired into the gayrage. lol. im also looking at flip boxes and a few other lighting alternatives like lighting controllers.

 

[Timmahh]

a few options. 1st depends on your current panal. Say you have a 100A service panel. and your home you run 50a, so you have room to add 50a worth of breakers, a 30amp and a 20amp, 5 10amps, 3 15ampss and a couple 10amps of the 110 variety, or you could stick in a 50A 220, and split it down to your sub panel in 2 110 legs.

Or what i would do, is connect the sub panel to the bus bars that connect from the meter to the main panel. you should see a place there where you can connect your wire leads to you sub panel. thus your sub will be taking power from behind the meter along with the main. if you tie directly into your main panel Service Bus, then you have to account for the total amount of amp draw you have, what the Service Box can safely provide (some are 50A some are 100A some are 200A ect) and then decide on the breaker to use, and how to set it up (ie 2 110s with a 20A and 30A breaker, or a single 30A 220 for your sub panel).

hope that makes sense. Basically take sub panel power from where your meter connects to your main service panel.

 

[Timmahh]

the safe way is to have DTE come pull the meter, do your work, and have them come back and re connect you. not sure if they charge or not. A good electrician can get you hooked up pretty easy, and may not need to pull the meter to do it.

but basically, if you are going to hook up to the place your meter connects to your main, then that will be HOT until the meter is pulled.

 

[Limosnero]

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/181708-experienced-electrician-here-answer-any.html

 

[Murfy]

amps-

the extra electricity comes from amps you are not using. umagine you have three(two pole) twenty amp breakers, that run at 12.5. 22.5 free amps, before continuous duty(20%).

remove the three 20 two(2) pole breakers, and install one new 60 amp two(2) pole breaker. then you stub the new #6AWG with ground, cable you bought, into the install location for the new sub panel. install new 60 amp sub with X breaker locations as needed. basically you are just moving the smae amount of breakers down the line a bit.

the trick is to not overrun amps. use a voltage tester to test actual voltage and figure your amp loads based on that. voltage will vary significantly.

if you are already running close to a hundred actual amps (hard to imagine?), then you will have to run a new service to the house. the current supply at you house will be determined by the size of the wire that comes from the street. the main breaker is then matched to the corresponding wire size. this work is done by the utility, and is not available in some urban residential areas.

 

[Murfy]

a new siemens-

200 amp box is only around a hundred dollars.

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/13759078367104557367?q=siemens 200 amp main panel&hl=en&client=firefox&hs=200&rls=com.yahoo:en-US:official&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41248874,d.b2I&biw=1440&bih=750&sa=X&ei=TqT-UNaXNeSo2gWG9oCADQ&ved=0CIsBEPMCMAg

 

[The Growery]

thanks for the help guys, looks like I'll be adding a new breaker panel from the meter. I'm running 8k watts of lights and equipment on 110v, so 8000 watts @ 110v x 9.6 amps = 76.8 amps correct? or is my amperage calculation incorrect?

 

[gladstoned]

I have a 8-light master lighting controller.
It runs 8k watts off a 50 amp breaker.

 

[The Growery]

hey glad is that @ 220v?

maybe I should have a 220V breaker just for the HPS lights, that would alleviate the need to call in for a new service line.

 

[gladstoned]

Yes. Hooked it up just like a dryer outlet or larger ac unit.
I think the actual wire and breaker costed more than the controller.
I wish I would have bought the flip box and made a lung room.
Next house.

 

[FatMarty]

thanks for the help guys, looks like I'll be adding a new breaker panel from the meter. I'm running 8k watts of lights and equipment on 110v, so 8000 watts @ 110v x 9.6 amps = 76.8 amps correct? or is my amperage calculation incorrect?

The easiest way to do it is to run a new Service Entrance up the side of the house next to the current one. Wire it for 200 Amps to a 200 A panel with mains and at least one other auxiliary circuit. Then call Edison to do the new Service Drop. A couple things to know: the position on the property where the Service is currently may not be legal for a new Service because they changed laws about how your wires could cross others property, etc. So ask around local and then call Edison/Consumers to schedule a time they can make the swap. It's been years since I did one; but generally they don't charge for that sort of thing as that is there property and I would imagine they like adding capacity to current customers.

 

[FatMarty]

I guess it goes without saying; but I will anyway: you really should be balancing your load evenly on the two legs supplying the 220 to your building. What you really don't want is 70 amps on one side of the mains while the other side is relatively free. In short - plugging everything into a couple breakers from one side of the panel is bad practice and can lead to overloading causing heat and possibly even fire.

 

[gladstoned]

I guess it goes without saying; but I will anyway: you really should be balancing your load evenly on the two legs supplying the 220 to your building. What you really don't want is 70 amps on one side of the mains while the other side is relatively free. In short - plugging everything into a couple breakers from one side of the panel is bad practice and can lead to overloading causing heat and possibly even fire.

I've never heard that. TY

 

[The Growery]

Ended up putting up a subpanel with AWG6 and a 50A breaker from the main panel. What do I need to do to meet NEC? Is it easy to convert to 220V with the work I have done so far?

 

[wheels619]

so ive decided to buy all the upgrades on the electrical today. have the 4 1000 ballasts and 3 400s to play with, a titan helios 4 220 volt 30 amp lighting controller and the expensive ass wiring so i can relocate it across the garage and end connectors to hook everything up to the dryer outlet correctly so i dont fry my ass. im so excited. the move is the first. should have everything moved that day. hopefully the construction will start the second. going to run 3 1000s for flower. a 1000 and a 400 for veg not to mention some t5s soon. going to try to make it perpetual. every three weeks or so harvest a light. should be an interesting jump in power and wattage. any ideas on how i should build my room? dimentions for three lights and how i should set them up maybe.

 

[wheels619]

I've never heard that. TY

have you ever considered a flip box? running 8 lights total. 4 each in 2 separate rooms on just 4 ballasts. im considering it when i upgrade to a bigger place after this one to help balance my flowering power so i dont have 8 lights running the same 12 hours a day. it makes 4 lights run from say 12am to 12pm and then flips to the other set of lights from 12pm to 12 am without ever turning the ballasts off. saves in start up power.

 

[FatMarty]

Ended up putting up a subpanel with AWG6 and a 50A breaker from the main panel. What do I need to do to meet NEC? Is it easy to convert to 220V with the work I have done so far?

View attachment 2492433View attachment 2492434

There is a little book at most hardware stores called H.P. Richter's Guide to Wiring, (I think that's the name of it). It IS the national standard reference for electricians and inspectors. Local codes Can supersede it; but often it is spot on. EVERYTHING you need to know about current NEC is included in the small paperback book. It is issued in a new edition shortly after the code is upgraded every few years; so make sure you get the latest edition. P.S> - I forgot to mention above that if one does a new Service Entrance mast, etc. the Power Company supplies the Meter Box: they will give you a new meter enclosure, sans meter; so you can wire up the entire Service without touching old meter cabinet containing LIVE wires. Again - in my experience the Power Co. does not charge for this service because it is their property.

 

[gladstoned]

Yes. Hooked it up just like a dryer outlet or larger ac unit.
I think the actual wire and breaker costed more than the controller.
I wish I would have bought the flip box and made a lung room.
Next house.

have you ever considered a flip box? running 8 lights total. 4 each in 2 separate rooms on just 4 ballasts. im considering it when i upgrade to a bigger place after this one to help balance my flowering power so i dont have 8 lights running the same 12 hours a day. it makes 4 lights run from say 12am to 12pm and then flips to the other set of lights from 12pm to 12 am without ever turning the ballasts off. saves in start up power.

I am pretty sure I should have. Next place. With a lungroom.

 

[Murfy]

looks good-

like marty said balance the load across the poles. look like you just need some two pole breakers and youre good. one benefit of running 240 is it splits the load across two poles instead of one. so 10 amps at 120 V across one wire, or 10 amps at 240 across TWO(2) wires. resulting in five amps on a conductor instead of ten. meaning? way less wire. 12 gauge is WAY cheaper than 8.

good job, man!