UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
and if he doesn't wash your car, none of the advances in medicine can prevent him from meeting the same fate as your former family, may they RIP.
Obamacare - What to do
- Thread starter GrowinDad
- Start date
Rancho Cucamonga
Active Member
Single-payer is the only way to go. No private insurance involved at all. Unfortunately we have a corrupt and broken government so it will never happen.
Obama didn't even fight for universal let alone single-payer, even didn't even really push for the public option. In most cases Obamacare as we know it will cause health care prices to rise for most, not fall. Health care premiums are rising and Obamacare will not stop this trend. The whole thing is just a disguise, which will be revealed to all once they need care.
Obama is a fraud.
Red1966
Well-Known Member
Obamacare was designed to fail. When it does, single-payer will be offered as the next "solution".
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Yes he did. Joe Lieberman the crucial 60th vote in the senate said he would vote against anything with the universal option in it. You do know who Joe Lieberman is...right?
Wavels
Well-Known Member
Obamacare is a disaster waiting to happen, a veritable house of cards...its collapse is inevitable because the cost of using the mandated policies will be prohibitive because of the large deductibles and co-pays. Many Americans will find themselves not only with a policy they cant afford, but also with one they cannot afford to use. Those who cannot afford the insurance,even with a subsidy, will be faced with a costly penalty, and in many cases, this, too, will be difficult, if not impossible, to pay. As each years subsidy is based on last years income, there will be a substantial year-end tax liability for those who must repay the subsidy in whole or part because their income increased during the year. The stress alone from such a regressive scheme is, without a doubt, not conducive to good health and well-being
Diets will worsen for millions of Americans as they struggle with a new large expense. Thus, the effect of Obamacare will be to worsen the health of millions. Indeed, a glitch in the legislation allows millions to be priced out ofcoverage. Alternatively, Americans might be able to acquire health insurance coverage but have no doctors willing to treat them.The demand that Obamacare places on household budgets in which there is no slack makes me wonder where the presidents economists were while the insurance lobby crafted the product that serves the profits of insurance companies. Two well-known economic facts are that real family income has been stagnant or declining for a number of years and Americans are over their heads in debt.How does Obama preside over a recovery when consumer purchasing power is redirected to insurance company profits? Obamacare not only rations health care by what a person or family can afford,but also has implications for Medicare patients. Hundreds of billions of dollars are siphoned from Medicare to help pay the cost of Obamacare. The health care provided to Medicare patients will decline with the reduced payments to care providers. Health care seems destined to be rationed according to the age and illnesses of Medicare patients. Those judged too old and too ill could be denied expensive treatments or procedures that would prolong their lives.
Obama will rue the day that his name was put on this special interest legislation, and most Americans, once they realize what has been done to them, will be angry that special interests again prevailed over the health of the nation.
Diets will worsen for millions of Americans as they struggle with a new large expense. Thus, the effect of Obamacare will be to worsen the health of millions. Indeed, a glitch in the legislation allows millions to be priced out ofcoverage. Alternatively, Americans might be able to acquire health insurance coverage but have no doctors willing to treat them.The demand that Obamacare places on household budgets in which there is no slack makes me wonder where the presidents economists were while the insurance lobby crafted the product that serves the profits of insurance companies. Two well-known economic facts are that real family income has been stagnant or declining for a number of years and Americans are over their heads in debt.How does Obama preside over a recovery when consumer purchasing power is redirected to insurance company profits? Obamacare not only rations health care by what a person or family can afford,but also has implications for Medicare patients. Hundreds of billions of dollars are siphoned from Medicare to help pay the cost of Obamacare. The health care provided to Medicare patients will decline with the reduced payments to care providers. Health care seems destined to be rationed according to the age and illnesses of Medicare patients. Those judged too old and too ill could be denied expensive treatments or procedures that would prolong their lives.
Obama will rue the day that his name was put on this special interest legislation, and most Americans, once they realize what has been done to them, will be angry that special interests again prevailed over the health of the nation.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
Obamacare is a disaster waiting to happen, a veritable house of cards...its collapse is inevitable because the cost of using the mandated policies will be prohibitive because of the large deductibles and co-pays. Many Americans will find themselves not only with a policy they can’t afford, but also with one they cannot afford to use. Those who cannot afford the insurance,even with a subsidy, will be faced with a costly penalty, and in many cases, this, too, will be difficult, if not impossible, to pay. As each year’s subsidy is based on last year’s income, there will be a substantial year-end tax liability for those who must repay the subsidy in whole or part because their income increased during the year. The stress alone from such a regressive scheme is, without a doubt, not conducive to good health and well-being
Diets will worsen for millions of Americans as they struggle with a new large expense. Thus, the effect of Obamacare will be to worsen the health of millions. Indeed, a “glitch” in the legislation allows millions to be priced out ofcoverage.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/30/obamacare-glitch-priced-out-of-health-care_n_2585695.html?view=print&comm_ref=falseAlternatively,Americans might be able to acquire health insurance coverage but have no doctors willing to treat them. http://www.californiahealthline.org/...-pay-cut.aspx#The demand that Obamacare places on household budgets in which there is no slack makes me wonder where the president’s economists were while the insurance lobby crafted the product that serves the profits of insurance companies. Two well-known economic facts are that real family income has been stagnant or declining for a number of years and Americans are over their heads in debt.How does Obama preside over a recovery when consumer purchasing power is redirected to insurance company profits?Obamacare not only rations health care by what a person or family can afford,but also has implications for Medicare patients. Hundreds of billions of dollars are siphoned from Medicare to help pay the cost of Obamacare. The health care provided to Medicare patients will decline with the reduced payments to care providers. Health care seems destined to be rationed according to the age and illnesses ofMedicare patients. Those judged too old and too ill could be denied expensive treatments or procedures that would prolong their lives.
Obama will rue the day that his name was put on this special interest legislation, and most Americans, once they realize what has been done to them, will be angry that special interests again prevailed over the health of the nation.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
your copy and paste chain mail mental retardation reminds me of people claiming that 45% of doctors would quit if the PPACA passed. when i pointed out that the study was a mail in survey with misleading verbiage and a total of 3% of mailers returned, you retards just dug your heels in further.
well, it's years later now. and as you retards can see, it is not the case that 45% of doctors quit because the PPACA passed.
just like with your retards' "skewed poll" theory, reality gave you a massive bitch slap and yet you retards keep going, doubling down on even more mental retardation.
did i mention that your retarded hysteria is retarded?
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Is wappa good?
Yeild also?
meechz 024
Active Member
What you forget is that Republican does not =Conservative....Most of todays "Republicans"are not Coservatives.For example...Most Liberals would hate JFK because he was far more consevative than today Republicans.Hence the name RINO.We have come very Left.Republican/Democrat=the same thing.They are both beholden to big government,corporations etc.So you are completely wrong.This I know to be fact based on what our Government is telling us.....$16,000-$20,000 minimum per year per family of (4).Thought is was going down.Guess not.Look,here is the problem.No matter what there WILL be "DEATH PANELS"you SHALL be told weather or not you will get treatment and what kind based on necessity.PERIOD.You SHALL take the plan or pay a penalty.This is the easiest,most convenient way to control us all.What in the hell is wrong with everyone?We are soooo fucked,I mean our kids anyway are.None of us need care cause we will be dead.Shame on us for what we are allowing...There are no political parties.There are is however philosophies,POV,types of opinions,Left,Right,socialist etc.You know we are fucked when most people think we are a Democracy when we are no such thing...I mean most dont know what type of Government we are.When people think Liberal means"open minded"instead of a political point of view and apply that to politics you know we are fucked.I feel bad for our kids and grandkids.
GrowinDad
Well-Known Member
I will take a different stance. Now I don't think there will be death panels. But I also think we give our pets far more end of life dignity than we do people. If someone is 99 years old, should they be given chemotherapy or held on a respirator? Or should we accept the fact that we all will die and sometimes we are spending huge amounts of money to cheat the inevitable while causing the ill to suffer more in their last days?
In a free loving society we dont do that as imperfect as we are.Do you want someone deciding if you should die and when?If no panels then who makes the call?If the Gov. Runs it then someone makes decisions.Bottom line is that the Gov. should not decide weather you get chemo. or what you eat or how about what you SMOKE?what requirements will you abide by.I know,we can be like the Borg.Mindless Robots.we are in so much trouble.
lifegoesonbrah
Well-Known Member
We already have death panels for drone strikes.
canndo
Well-Known Member
I and my wife have personal policies. I had an attack of atrial fibrulation two years ago that cost me a thousand dollars even WITH the insurance - but that wasn't the real cost- the real cost was the fact that they raised my rates a hundred bucks a month. My wife just got a notification that her insurance will be raised by 15 percent - or 42 dollars a month. We have a choice, we either get a plan that covers less while co-pays and the like go up or we pay the extra, until next year or the year after when it goes up yet again.
I don't know if Obama care will help folks like us - healthy generaly but on the cusp of medicare - another 5 years for me and who knows what I will be paying by the time that number rolls around.
I had a hell of a time getting my original plan because I took blood pressure meds and cholesterol meds. Now a HUGE percentage of people are in the exact same situation - we take preventative medication, there is nothing really wrong with us but it is called a "pre-existing condition". It will prolong my life, of that there is little doubt but were I to have opted not to take those meds it would have been easier to get insured. Now what sort of sense does that make?
I don't know what the actuarials look like but I suspect it is just an excuse in order for insurance companies to winnow out anyone who is not perfectly healthy - AND has the money - the sweet spot. This is not what insurance is supposed to be for, it is supposed to be a pool but what we have is akin to the illegal practice of auto insurance "red lining". Even though Obama care isn't very good, at least I am assured that I CAN get insurance at all (if I can afford it).
I havn't read what the others have said yet but the reality is this - there is no place in America for Health insurance. Insurance offers absolutely nothing to the health of the nation. Nothing. All it does is contribute to executive's pay and perhaps a bit toward stock holders while actually contributing to the cost of health care.
Insurance companies ration, they have death panels. So what is different between that and what the right claims is wrong with Obama care?
One day the right will attempt to take credit for the changes that have been made in America regarding health insurance and one day we will join the other civilized nations on the planet and actually have a health care system that makes sense.
Obamacare is a first step in that direction.
canndo
Well-Known Member
Look carefully at what you said - that the cost of health care rises because of..... insurance.
California put a cap on law suits and the premiums rise just as much and are just as high as in states where there is no such cap. Such a cap will serve only corporations and those who seek to get away with shoddy care and faulty products.
Capping suits will limit the average joe from having any recourse at all, when even now they are shoved into an arbitration corner that is unbalanced as well. Big business would LOVE to operate in a world where there are no consequences.
canndo
Well-Known Member
I got caught using that argument once - national average lifespans are a very poor measurement of the quality of health care.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
People live longer now.
HOw did you get "caught"?
nontheist
Well-Known Member
Because even the poorest countries with nonexistent healthcare coverage can have higher life expectancy than what we consider the best. One of those little facts that makes liberals edgy, as you can see canndo is already bouncing around it.
A closer look will reveal that our medical treatment is well for lack of a better word, just wrong. Even excluding the profiteering from insurance companies and medical field professionals Cuba spend 4% of what we do and has a higher life expectancy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy