"Colored only" after school tutoring

[Figong]

My little community is heavy medical so we have a large foreign population here. There are 60 Indian immigrant families that purchased a plot of land and built their own clubhouse with a restaurant, pool, tennis courts etc. A very nice place. Anyone is welcome as long as they are accompanied by one of the family members but can't go on their own. You can't become a member if you are not of Indian descent.

I'm cool with this. They are absolutely breaking the civil rights act law but most don't care.

So... what you're saying is that they aren't allowed on a normal reservation, so they effectively started their own? Cool shit. As for Civil Rights, Indians and Indian-type reservations/buildings/businesses owned have special privilege due to the history.

 

[Red1966]

I can see both sides of this argument, but I'm actually with Bucky on this one. I mean, OK, we (being white people) always look at it like "It's not our fault." And it was many, many years ago and I get that laws are different now and all that good stuff. BUT. Think about it from a different perspective. This didn't just happen yesterday, but that's kind of the problem for them. This wasn't one generation of people that had their entire course of life changed. There are huge gaps between races, financial, educational, and otherwise, that can almost exclusively be attributed to the poverty their families were forced into. And the argument I always hear is "they're not poor because of slavery, they're poor because of bad choices they made." Well, ya! What choices would YOU make if your family needed food? I mean, this has a lot of frustration behind it for them. Even after slavery ended, being black or any kind of minority meant no good jobs were open to you, if you were even lucky enough to find one. They didn't get pensions, they barely made anything as far as wages go, they couldn't save money. They couldn't send their kids to college even after their kids were allowed to go. So, great, we mixed everyone into public schooling. Whoopee. Now how many black students had to leave school early so they could work to help their family? Don't say they should have stayed in school. Sometimes, that's just not an option. Hungry bellies won't stop growling while they wait for you to finish school. So we have all these generations of black people who had next to no hope of ever getting out of a cycle of poverty, and then we throw out a few bones like Black History Month and expect everything to just be OK for them. Well, it's not. They were held back so long that it's going to take a LOT of help to make things truly "equal".

Very few students leave school to "work to help their family". Pretending so is just bullshit. Mostly, your argument is that people of one race, no matter their financial or social standing, must be discriminated against until God knows when to improve the financial or social standing of people of another race, no matter their financial or social standing, So you just justified 20,000 years of slavery!

 

[Red1966]

Everyone has the same opportunities NOW. I think of it like this: My grandfather had a job he worked at for 60 years. If he'd been black, he probably would not have had steady employment if he'd had any at all. He got a pension when he retired. Had he been black, he wouldn't have gotten that. Because he had income when my father was growing up, my father was able to stay in school, even got to go to college. Not if he'd been raised black, though. My grandfather died, passed that money down to my dad, and bingo, I can go to college without disturbing my dad's finances one bit. There is no chance of that happening with poverty that's been handed down through that many generations. These kids are born and by the time they're teenagers they're working to pay off the debts their parents incurred just from raising them. We can't pretend like the past hasn't affected the present just because we don't want to be blamed for it. No, it's not our fault. But yes, it is wrong, and it is happening, and we do need to help fix it.

My grandfather and my father died deep in debt. Your privileged upbringing somehow entitles you to say I must be discriminated against to support your notion of "fairness"? I don't think so. "These kids are born and by the time they're teenagers they're working to pay off the debts their parents incurred" This is just pure bullshit. Debt is not inherited.

 

[Red1966]

No, I'm saying we all have our struggles, my mom and family is no better off than a poor black family. The point is, the same help is offered to both sides, it's up to you now to accept and use it.

Funny, the "help" that started this thread wasn't offered to "both sides".

 

[Red1966]

Well...psh! That's the problem! We held them back so long and then get tired of their retribution to their circumstances, so we change a few laws, throw them some exclusive black only passes to scholarships and them to just trust us. "Let us help you" probably doesn't carry a whole lot of weight in their communities anymore. And let's be honest, if you're born in the ghetto, and you're raised in the ghetto, you probably work in the area because travelling for work is an expense you can't cover. So you're making wages that aren't competitive with any place other than the ghetto you're already living in, how are you supposed to move out of it? It is VERY hard to leave a life of poverty. And then to top it off, all of the people in that ghetto who COULDN'T find a job, they're stealing your stuff, because they have to do what they have to do to feed their families, and if that means chopping your car up, well...you're SOL. It's a cycle. Poverty is just a terrible, terrible cycle. And we can't pretend like they weren't forced into that.

So you're justifying racial discrimination by pretending all and only "people of color" are poor? Stereotyping at it's most bizarre.

 

[Red1966]

am i simply imagining an achievement gap that resulted from centuries of enslavement, persecution, disenfranchisement and institutionalized racism? or did that actually happen?

So you're solution is more institutionalized racism?

 

[Red1966]

when did i say we were better than blacks? think of it this way: if we were a majority black country, founded by blacks, and whites were brought in as slaves, then freed but disenfranchised and segregated and faced institutionalized racism, would you be against helping whites to achieve the same footing as those that profited off their enslavement and discrimination?

"segregation and institutionalized racism" is exactly what you are promoting. Your assumption that all whites practiced and profited from racism and all others suffered is just more racist stereotyping.

 

[Red1966]

when did i say we were better than blacks? think of it this way: if we were a majority black country, founded by blacks, and whites were brought in as slaves, then freed but disenfranchised and segregated and faced institutionalized racism, would you be against helping whites to achieve the same footing as those that profited off their enslavement and discrimination?

Actually, you claimed you WERE black.

 

[Red1966]

are the circumstances faced by the poor white kid in some part a product of centuries of slavery and institutionalized racism? didn't think so.

So his poverty is different? Doesn't count somehow? Sounds racist to me.

 

[Red1966]

there's a difference between acknowledging our past and playing the race card, junior. those who forgget the past are indeed doomed to repeat it.

forget * "Our past"? Maybe you'res, not mine. Your playing the race card. Don't pretend you have "higher" motivations. And yet you still want to repeat the past with more institutionalized racism.

 

[RainbowBrite86]

Very few students leave school to "work to help their family". Pretending so is just bullshit. Mostly, your argument is that people of one race, no matter their financial or social standing, must be discriminated against until God knows when to improve the financial or social standing of people of another race, no matter their financial or social standing, So you just justified 20,000 years of slavery!

No. No I didn't. (And when you answer these, you know you can reply to more than one quote in a response, right? I'm not being facetious, i'm just mentioning it in case you didn't know.) This discussion is about a tutoring program that has been opened up exclusively for helping "colored children" (Whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean, really nobody uses that phrase anymore...) in a particular area. Their financial standing was very much taken into consideration before this program was started....

 

[Red1966]

when did i say white was synonymous with wealth and that we should feel ashamed?

Nearly 34,000 times. Also, THE NEXT LINE OF YOUR POST. As follows:

i am simply arguing that because of our unique history, we should acknowledge that it has had effects on our citizens, ands that we should want to work to correct the sins of our past.

"sins of our past" You're claiming collective guilt based solely on race?

do you think the effects of centuries of persecution can simply be erased overnight?

Do you think collective punishment based solely on condition of birth must be administered in perpetuity to satisfy you're notion of "fairness"?

 

[Red1966]

I try not to hood grudges...as I said, sounds like a personal problem if some people can't get over it, you can't play the race card forever.

Oh, yes he can. Watch.

 

[Red1966]

trying to erase the achievement gap is literally "getting over it", "it" being the damage we have done to some of our citizens by treating them as subhuman for centuries. should rape victims just "get over it", or do you think they may need therapy and counseling to do so? you can keep yapping about "race card" until you're blue in the face, junior. it won't change the past.

Institutionalized racism is going to help us get over institutionalized racism? We haven't been alive for centuries, neither have the beneficiaries of the racism your promoting. Rape has nothing to do with this conversation. Bring it up is dishonest. You playing the race card is a current event. Nothing, not even the institutionalized racism you promote, will change the past.

 

[Red1966]

agreed, but i can understand why there is one, and i have no problem defending it.

You have no problem defending racism?

 

[Red1966]

and slavery,

Doesn't exist in America anymore

disenfranchisement,

Vague term subjectively applied

segregation,

Doesn't exist in America anymore except self-imposed

institutionalized racism: also...colored only.

Yet you are trying to justify it for "non-coloreds" here

 

[Red1966]

so what you're saying is that if we eliminate the predominately black areas of the nation, problem solved?

Now your promoting genocide?

i know you don't mean that in the stormfront red way, but what you're basically saying is "if we ignore the most affected areas and focus on the least affected areas, it's like there is no difference at all!". it's kind of silly.

Misquoting again?

 

[Red1966]

were whites also subjected to the same centuries long persecution in this nation that blacks were?

Your "centuries long persecution" is misdirection. Pretending to justify current racism with past racism is just immoral.

 

[Red1966]

it's not fair if you don't get special help, and it's not fair if they do get special help. did i get that right, basically?

No. Not even close.

 

[Red1966]

It's fair if both get special help.

But if everyone gets it, it's not "special".