Taking the plunge: HP Aero Drain to Waste

[GreenThumbSucker]

i made battery backup with a mechanical relay, inverter and industrial johnson control charging controller i got from my bro for scrap,and a use a 12 volt power supply to keep your Normally Open relay closed when the power is on and switch over to the inverter when the power cuts out i have something for the pump for now and working on it for lights down the road. did that make sense pretty smoked up right now lol

Wow, cool idea with the relay. All my components are 12v.

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

Here is a plant with new roots. Root development is still slow.



This is regrowth after the initial roots turned brown from 24 hours of hot hot chamber. I'm slowly, patiently chugging along. Soon as my solenoids arrive I will re-do my timings. I am thinking about going with the straight sprayers that spray down, instead of the angled ones that spray directly onto the netpots.l

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

Tonight I changed the sprayers from angled to straight. Now they spray straight down and not directly onto the netpot. That means that the roots now only get the floating mist. We will see what this does.

My pod temperature immediately dropped by 2 1/2 degrees when I changed sprayers. Apparently the mist being sprayed into the air and not onto the netpot cools the inside of the pod better. That's a good thing to know.

Another thing I noticed is that there is a three degree temperature difference between the pod closest to the pump and the one furthest away. This has to be due to the fact that the tubing is warming up between sprays. I need to get off my ass and insulate my tubing. I suspect it would drop temps in the pods a couple more degrees.

Right now my solution is at 40 degrees. I don't want to stress out my chiller at that temperature too much longer. More insulation.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Why wouldn't u guys just turn them into flood tables during power outage? I mean I am thinking of trying this and power loss was a worry but then I figured in case I lose power I'll cap the ends and put enough water in there to keep all roots wet. In a few hours tops you have power again so not like you'll have root rot... Idk that's just my plan if i was in that scenario. Don't see why that wouldn't work. Gl with future grows.

P.S.
im planning on trying this method with strawberries! Wanna try and get apple size strawberries! Omg that would be INSANE!!!

Root rot isn't the only issue, if you don't aererate the liquid the plants will drown in not too long. Also, soaking the roots would kill off all the root hairs, and set you back for days. The accumulator and 12v battery do the trick perfectly, and at no penalty, so it's a solved issue for me in my mind...

 

[Trichy Bastard]

not all nutes meter the same i think of it like gun powders you got to start slow with what ever random nutes ur using i start at 200 ppm with botanicaire gns17 and they look great and start ramping up the dose slowly if you see gnarly leaves start to form twisted and cut looking then add more water to res or dump it run just distilled for a bit then back to nutes but lower then what burned them obviously lol as plants use water ppm will rise with loss of water so equals increase in ppm if they drink faster then they feed, and careful how long you go between ranges i seen people nute up seeing deficiencies and then bring ph back to bio availability range and nuke em with nutes when they got back to 5.5 and the plants could start ion exchange again efficiently, i usually just add ro water or distilled and bring it back to 5.5 - 5.8 and try to not let it go above 6.5 and mine look great everyone has such darticle veryifferent variables that come into play from g room to g room, it's what works for you ultimately but the better informed you are friends the better you do, knowledge is power. i got to dig out a link i found in cannibis culture for aeroponics and weed and it was a good informative. aeroponic supersonic is the name if you haven't seen it already.

Man I love DTW... Don't miss any of this balancing act - never looking back!

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Tonight I changed the sprayers from angled to straight. Now they spray straight down and not directly onto the netpot. That means that the roots now only get the floating mist. We will see what this does.

My pod temperature immediately dropped by 2 1/2 degrees when I changed sprayers. Apparently the mist being sprayed into the air and not onto the netpot cools the inside of the pod better. That's a good thing to know.

Another thing I noticed is that there is a three degree temperature difference between the pod closest to the pump and the one furthest away. This has to be due to the fact that the tubing is warming up between sprays. I need to get off my ass and insulate my tubing. I suspect it would drop temps in the pods a couple more degrees.

Right now my solution is at 40 degrees. I don't want to stress out my chiller at that temperature too much longer. More insulation.

I ran my JBJ Arctica at 35 degrees for 3 months without any issues... The electric bill was another story... haha. Yep- insulate! insulation is key in all of this...

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

I ran my JBJ Arctica at 35 degrees for 3 months without any issues... The electric bill was another story... haha. Yep- insulate! insulation is key in all of this...

I insulated the shit out of the pods. They are now running at 61 degrees. They are going so nicely now that I turned my chiller up from 40 to 50 degrees. I am running pretty high spray times now, 30 seconds on 2 minutes off. I will adjust my spray times down until I am at 65 degrees. Slowly but surely getting there.

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

they are now at 62 degrees. they like the cooler range of temps. They also like longer spray times while they are developing roots. Im sitting at about 350 ppm right now. in a day or two I will start turning up the ppms and they should take off. Will have some pics soon.

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

I have finally gotten to the stage where everything is stable and they are starting to take off. Here is what I have learned.

Insulation of the pods is key. I double wrapped all of the pods top to bottom with bubble wrap type insulation. This is absolutely necessary. Triple wrapping them would be even better

The roots do not like temperatures above 68 degrees. I read on forums that the ideal range for pod temperature is between 62 and 72 degrees. Some academic papers I read said ideal was between 54 and 72 degrees. My experience is this, anything over 68 degrees and you are playing with fire. I could not keep the roots white above that temperature. Try as I might, they kept turning yellow or brown at those temperatures. They DEFINITELY dont like being over 72....they up and die at those temperatures.

By messing with my chiller and spray times, I got them down to 62-64 degrees and the roots started popping everywhere. I also increased the spray times up to 30 seconds on 2 minutes off. With the way my system is built and insulated, controlling temps is a dance between insulation, spray times and solution temperatures. If I want shorter spray times, I have to turn my chiller down. Right now my solution is 54 degrees and the root zone temperature hovers between 61.5 and 63 degrees.

Because I was going through so much solution with the longer spray times, I put a 10 gallon reservoir between my system and the drain. It has an auto-top off system using my original 50 gallon reservoir barrel. I am going with recirculating until I have a lot of roots. Im going to put in a ball valve and bypass system so I can continue using the small reservoir when I go back to drain to waste. That way I'm only chilling 10 gallons of water at a time. Much easier on my chiller. This gives me the option of recirculating or draining to waste whenever I choose. I can also use it to drain out my reservoir when I flush out the system.

One thing that helped them drop roots faster was pouring a measuring cup of solution through each netpot once a day. The mist is so fine that it didn't even penetrate the hydroton and the rockwool was drying out. Once I have a bit more root, it wont be an issue any longer.

I just turned the PPM up to about 510 this morning. Once they start taking off in earnest, I will turn them up to about 550 or 600 ppm, and lock it in until I flip em.

I killed the roots two or three times figuring out all this cooling shit. I have it down now. Here are some new pics. Each of the four plants are now bursting out with new roots.


These little aquarium fish nets are awesome for dipping out floaties and little crap from your reservoir. A must have for HP aero or DWC.

 

[jamesvagabond]

Nice, sounds like you're getting it under control... Heat issues were my biggest issue, and now my designs focus on dealing with the heat head on... My newest chamber design will be made from 2" foamboard and has cooling lines running through the interior...

Be careful of polystyrene! I was looking into using it as a cheaper alternative to HDPE, but searched its MSDS toxicity info, and came across this article: http://www.ejnet.org/plastics/polystyrene/health.html . Acidic solutions will cause styrene to leach into the solution, which could be having an adverse affect on the plant's physiology. If the roots are able to uptake styrene through the roots, or its off-gassing vapors through the stomata, then you'd be smoking a neurotoxin.

"A 1988 survey published by the Foundation for Advancements in Science and Education also found styrene in human fatty tissue with a frequency of 100% at levels from 8 to 350 nanograms/gram (ng/g). The 350 ng/g level is one third of levels known to cause neurotoxic symptoms.[5] determined that Styrofoam drinking leach Styrofoam into the liquids they contain. The cups apparently lose weight during the time they are at use. The studies showed that tea with lemon produced the most marked change in the weight of the foam cup.[1]"

Granted this is talking about drinking cups, but the foam boards are polystyrene as well and we'd be seeing the same effects since we are using a far more chemically complex solution than just tea with lemon in it. It is definitely something to think about. Keep medicine medicine, not poison. This comes as a disappointment to me because I was excited by the potential to save 700 dollars in chamber materials. I think hospital bills are a bit more though, and sorry obama I am not getting health care. Earth is a far less invasive and destructive doctor than any hospital.

 

[GreenThumbSucker]

Question, what pod and solution temps are people running? What methods of insulation and cooling are people using?

My roots are growing by about 50℅ every day now, but still slow growth above ground.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Be careful of polystyrene! I was looking into using it as a cheaper alternative to HDPE, but searched its MSDS toxicity info, and came across this article: http://www.ejnet.org/plastics/polystyrene/health.html . Acidic solutions will cause styrene to leach into the solution, which could be having an adverse affect on the plant's physiology. If the roots are able to uptake styrene through the roots, or its off-gassing vapors through the stomata, then you'd be smoking a neurotoxin.

"A 1988 survey published by the Foundation for Advancements in Science and Education also found styrene in human fatty tissue with a frequency of 100% at levels from 8 to 350 nanograms/gram (ng/g). The 350 ng/g level is one third of levels known to cause neurotoxic symptoms.[5] determined that Styrofoam drinking leach Styrofoam into the liquids they contain. The cups apparently lose weight during the time they are at use. The studies showed that tea with lemon produced the most marked change in the weight of the foam cup.[1]"

Granted this is talking about drinking cups, but the foam boards are polystyrene as well and we'd be seeing the same effects since we are using a far more chemically complex solution than just tea with lemon in it. It is definitely something to think about. Keep medicine medicine, not poison. This comes as a disappointment to me because I was excited by the potential to save 700 dollars in chamber materials. I think hospital bills are a bit more though, and sorry obama I am not getting health care. Earth is a far less invasive and destructive doctor than any hospital.

Well, I am completely encasing the foamboard in fiberglass- like a surfboard, so that should keep me separate... Hoping the epoxy will be inert enough once cured?

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Question, what pod and solution temps are people running? What methods of insulation and cooling are people using?

My roots are growing by about 50℅ every day now, but still slow growth above ground.

I think you are possibly overwatering your netcups... Try doing just a small squirt of water- just enough to keep them alive, but a small enough amount that the roots don't get soaked. Now is the time where you are going to notice you'll not get the extra-fast aero growth due to your not being true aero and watering so much- possibly... On th other hand- considering that this isn't true aero, you might just benefit from more water, as often people with the "soakponics" version report better results with more frequent watering... Try both ways and see which helps growth... Either way, your doing pretty good man, it could definitely be worse!

 

[AeroPonicsWizaRd]

root zones temps have been constant around 68 to 72 and remember its cold where i live right now like 15 20 average high lately ;< res water temp helps stabilize temp and height of the bins off the ground and insulating factors , foam and insulation work bad ass if you use em right ;>

 

[AeroPonicsWizaRd]

heck yeah man roots are used to constantly cooler than air temp makes sense to me

 

[AeroPonicsWizaRd]

33 days into flowering my end of the world stash i started em on dec 21, starting to fatten up nice and the smell is amazing just amazing!!! agent orange and cinderella 99 accidental cross oops but i gave it a shot was worth it as of yet we'll see whats up in a few more weeks hope i can make 420 bash gonna be close but that's how i roll...

 

[StinkBud]

I'd start at 500PPM and go up from there. Watch your plants. If they look yellow, up the PPM, if they look super dark green then lower the PPM. It's all strain dependent bro.

Get yourself a UPS (uninterruptable power supply) at any major computer or office supply store. A big UPS can keep your pumps running for days. It won't help your lights but as least your plants won't die.

Good luck bro!

 

[PROF XAVIER]

Haven't been posting for a while, just finished harvesting. I run the 110 psi pump with 50 micron misters, and don't have the solenoids and accumulators. I finished with just over 18 oz's from two plants....veg for a month and flowered two months all under t-5's. Just my input on what worked for me...it's like foggers, great for cloning but good luck flowering. Obviously the plant would starve. Same with my misting intervals...I started with short bursts, and the only thing that happened was huge fluffy root masses and scraggly ass tops. So I started alternating short and long mist times and saw a HUGE increase in top growth. My point is, like a fogger, HP misters have their uses and is an important too, but short misting cycles won't sustain a large plant just like foggers won't sustain normal vegetative growth. Unless you run SOG and begin flower as soon as you see roots, I don't beleive short misting cycles will sustain growth for plants over 20" tall. I used short cycles to DEVELOP a large root mass, THEN progressed to longer feed times. This is what worked for me and I got over a pound off 2 plants with t-5's. Hope this helps some people.

 

[PROF XAVIER]

I'll post some pics but my root mass was about a foot wide and over two feet long and was still as white as in veg. Funny thing is I scrapped the design and am starting an upgrade. Here we go again! Never ends! Whoever said "smoking weed isn't addictive but growing it sure as hell is..." should get a medal....leaves you always wanting more!

 

[hammer21]

Haven't been posting for a while, just finished harvesting. I run the 110 psi pump with 50 micron misters, and don't have the solenoids and accumulators. I finished with just over 18 oz's from two plants....veg for a month and flowered two months all under t-5's. Just my input on what worked for me...it's like foggers, great for cloning but good luck flowering. Obviously the plant would starve. Same with my misting intervals...I started with short bursts, and the only thing that happened was huge fluffy root masses and scraggly ass tops. So I started alternating short and long mist times and saw a HUGE increase in top growth. My point is, like a fogger, HP misters have their uses and is an important too, but short misting cycles won't sustain a large plant just like foggers won't sustain normal vegetative growth. Unless you run SOG and begin flower as soon as you see roots, I don't beleive short misting cycles will sustain growth for plants over 20" tall. I used short cycles to DEVELOP a large root mass, THEN progressed to longer feed times. This is what worked for me and I got over a pound off 2 plants with t-5's. Hope this helps some people.

Prof this is what works for me also when you get the dreaded Pom Pom roots very little growth up top I stick with fish bone roots and all is good.