Not so much when you work out the startup and operational costs. $1000 for these analyses would be cheap, and I suspect that it will cost more with proper replication etc.
MMPR Grow op: Small Scale
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heckler73
Well-Known Member
Well, what are the capital costs? A gas chromatograph is around $10-15k. Assume another $5k for supplementary software and supplies (maybe a few thousand more).
One would need a building... But it's not like a warehouse. A small doctor's office would suffice.
License/permit costs??? How many thousands will that be?
So... how about $50k as a basic start-up cost? Or does that sound too low?
JonnyAppleSeed420
New Member
If you read all of the act you will see they are looking for producers yes but look a little further and you soon realize that this whole thing is a ruse. If it passes these businesses will need to supply meds to a min of 500+ people. We are less than a year away and they are still putting you hoops...doesn't that strike you as funny? How are these places supposed to have product on April 1st? Simply put you can't and they know it. By the time you are told you do not get a license their work will have been done. All it is, is a stall tactic. If you do not get this from reading the act I would suggest a lawyer. I was all gung ho and willing to jump through as many hoops as needed but my lawyer told me I'm wasting my time and effort. I wish you all the best and really hope your not part of the joke their playing on us medical patients.
R.Raider
Well-Known Member
I also heard from them as well. Seems reasonable enough.
This company was one of the ones on the list of "laboratories that have demonstrated their compliance and have a valid Controlled Substance Licence allowing the possession of cannabis (marihuana) for analytical testing" that I received from HC and yes they gave me their license number.
mikethegrower
Active Member
I too have been researching becoming a LP. It seems that the hardest part, if you already have funding, will be finding someone willing to let you do this on their property and zoning. I have found a couple people that would be willing so far and they are in the Agrucultural Land Reserve so local bylaws would not prohibit growing.As for a QAP, I spoke with Health Canada and they said anyone who can read a lab report would be fine. It is definately going to be expensive to start up but so is any business. I'm still waiting though, to see if anyone gets approved before I put out the cash to rent a place and do all the necessary improvements. Also it's starting to look like they will have to extend the time that the old licences expire because no one has been approved under the new system yet and the Canadian courts have already said we must have reasonable access to our meds.
DoseOfReality
Well-Known Member
They suggest it takes approx. 6 months for an LP to be able to supply. In theory that gives them a bit more time to find someone before they consider extending any time lines, if they consider that option at all.
I'm not sure about the pharmacopeia's but that falls under their responsibilities. They gave me their license number and I would send a copy of the info sheet they sent me with my application. And everybody will need a QAP not just for tests but certify that the facility is sanitized and the medicine has been produced under sanitary conditions.
Has any key seen the article on pps? Saying they've raised 10 mil to expand? Kinda looking like its suppose to be a monopoly. PPS has
Plants ready so they are ready, they will be the only ones ready. But there's no way they will have enough supply let alone quality.
westcoast420
Well-Known Member
Just to clear things up for some of you guys, you need an in house lab to run tests on your mmj or your licence will not be approved. Stated this already about 3 pages ago.
You are only calculating the price of the GC. The GC would be fine for the THC/CBD, but you also need to test for heavy metals, aflatoxins, and do all of the microbial counts. Each of these tests requires a different set of tools, and none of them are cheap. On top of that, even to do the GC analysis, you first need to extract the compounds, weigh out your standards, etc. So just for that you would need an analytical balance, a fume hood, various pieces of glass ware, etc. Then, you also need to have someone who knows how to operate the instruments, interpret the results, and be able to trouble shoot. This all adds up, and by the time you are done you are looking at 100-200k at the low end to set up.
You better be sure about the pharmacopoeias, as it is the LP's responsibility to ensure they are followed. It is the labs responsibilty to do the analysis, but it is your responsbility to collect and send them the appropriate samples. I think it will be evident in your QA report if you dont do your homework.
GardenOrganics
Active Member
everyone just keep grow your own pot. problem solved
mikethegrower
Active Member
I wish people would do their research before they post this nonsense. You do not need an onsite lab. Read the giudelines and you will see this. Also health canada assured me this was not the case.
In the application to specify what the license is for, mine would not say testing. But since you brought it up I understand what you are saying. I will have to look into it. I've tried finding those documents and correct me if I'm wrong but they are expensive? 850+
Nowhere does it say on site testing, it says that it must be tested before sale.
I'm not saying it would have to be tested on site, but the way they have constructed this the QA person is ultimately responsible to ensure that the tests comply with one of these documents. If you outsource the analysis, you are still the one that needs to make sure they use the right tests and that the sample you send are collected correctly. The amount you need to sample changes depending on the size and nature of the batch. For example, from a bulk sample, you need to take several sub-samples from the top, middle and bottom of the container and homogenize them together. The total sample must be be a sufficient size as outlined in the document (most require 100-250g). So my point is that regardless of what the lab needs to run the tests, you need to make sure that you send what is required in the schedule B document you choose. Additionally, you need to make sure that the tests they are using are acceptable. As for the cost, they do tend to be quite expensive. You may be able to access one at a local university library, but the ones I found were outdated. Here is a secret though, there is one schedule B document that is freely available: http://apps.who.int/phint/en/p/about/ The catch though, as you will find out when you start reading, is that it is not easy to interpret the requirements. Again, this is why they have the requirement for the QA person to have training/expertise of some sort. I imagine that in the QA report you need to demonstrate that you are familiar with them and know how to apply them.
Howdy all, just stumbled across this thread via a random google search.
Thought I'd join in the fun, as I also am in the process of becoming a small scale licensed producer.
The 2012 British Pharmacopoeia Volume V Appendices have all the required information for section 53 of the MMPR, and is available for free here;
http://bp2012.infostar.com.cn
Appendix XI T. Herbal Drug Sampling and Sample Preparations (Eur. Pharm 2.80.2) Has the relevant info on sampling prep and sizes.
Anyone else notice the weird discrepancy in the Directive on Physical Security Requirements between 6.2.1 and 7.2.1 8.2.1 and 9.2.1 Who or why would one opt for level 6?!
Thought I'd join in the fun, as I also am in the process of becoming a small scale licensed producer.
The 2012 British Pharmacopoeia Volume V Appendices have all the required information for section 53 of the MMPR, and is available for free here;
http://bp2012.infostar.com.cn
Appendix XI T. Herbal Drug Sampling and Sample Preparations (Eur. Pharm 2.80.2) Has the relevant info on sampling prep and sizes.
Anyone else notice the weird discrepancy in the Directive on Physical Security Requirements between 6.2.1 and 7.2.1 8.2.1 and 9.2.1 Who or why would one opt for level 6?!
Thanks for the link, I looked around for that info to no avail.
As for the Directive on Physical Security Requirements, I dont see a discrepancy. Level 6 requires a thicker wall, but level 7 and up require steel re-enforcement. I dont know the relative costs of the options, but I could see going for level 6 if that is all you need and the steel and other aspects are expensive.
westcoast420
Well-Known Member
Hey bud, I actually know 2 people now who have been denied by health canada because they didnt have an onsite lab. You think the people at HC know what the fuck there doing? Not a chance. Go ahead and dump a bunch of time and money into trying to get a commercial licence only to be denied. You think there going to hand out these licences to small private companies or individuals? Keep dreaming.
R.Raider
Well-Known Member
I know this wasn't directed towards myself but Health Canada themselves told me you don't need an on-site lab and even gave me a list of 3rd party labs that I could use. No offense but I'll take Health Canada's word over yours and two dudes that you know...Anyone else notice all the negative information that gets posted in this thread is based on misinformation people heard from other people rather than facts from Health Canada themselves? lame.
As I alluded to earlier, I suspect that they were likely denied because they were miss-using the 3rd party lab. In my opinion, a third party lab would not be in a position to do the QA, but several people seem to be trying this. If you were applying with that model, I suspect HC would deny you. However, if you are using a 3rd party lab to do the tests, but have a qualified QAP on site, they may allow it.
Obviously this is speculation on my part, but I agree that there was likely more to the rejections than just the 3rd party lab.
R.Raider
Well-Known Member
Yeah I'm completely aware that one would still need a QAP person if they had a 3rd Party lab, I probably should of mentioned that. Anyone know how to go about finding a QAP that does contract work? I talked to a place that does it along with testing but it's rather pricey and I can only find one place. I'd like to find a little competition in this area but not looking good. Anyone know of anything?