making a new pannel

tags420

tags420

Well-Known Member
XT-E's all the way.
I would add the 660nm.
With WW you cover 630nm pretty well and then CW gives your blue and middle region to create a real nice full but photosynthetically tuned spectrum. Then add a mix of 630nm and 660nm to make it flower dominant while hitting both red peaks. I am not sure on brands for 660nm but I like the idea of adding it to the spectrum.
 
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speedyganga

Well-Known Member
hi tags,
Yeah XTE sound good. the only thing I prefer with XML2 is the wide spectrum, the great efficiency and also I need to do less work.

It seems I can either go for 1 XML2 WW bin T5 3000K + 1 WML2 CW bin T6 65000K @2000mA or a bit more.
And 2 XPE2 red 630nm @900mA
It looks pretty much like the A51 spectrum right now. I will probably add some lenses : 80° and 60°
Normally It should work very well on its own and produce big bud like you guys are enjoying ;)
Right now, without the 660 I think it's too white. But I saw some guys making good buds with only XML and 2:2:1 ratio or 1:1:0 (WW:NW:CW) so it should work very well especially by adding red in 630nm.
Moreover, in a second time I will add when I will have money, some 660 on another driver and a dimmer. I will hence be able to adjust the amount of 660 in founction of the plants. It should enforce the red in my spectrum and make bigger buds and more trichs.


I am driving them "hot" (I don't know if I can say that but I mean high intensity) but my heatsink is massive and as PSUAGRO and other suggested to me, I will add 2 big fan.

Otherwise I am taking back my spectrum with XTE : 3:WW/2:CW/1:630nm / 2:660nm

So I am thinking about this right now.
And I am still looking for cheap and efficient 640-650 or 660 to supplement to the first XML2 spectrum.
 
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speedyganga

Well-Known Member
Hello everyone,

There is something I didn't get:
Everyone told me don't go for 1W, but what about ASTIR panel? even SDS said nothing.
By wanting to "copy" the Apache with a spectrum closer to Area51. I am just doing an Astir panel with customized spectrum and some lenses...

Then I wonder What lenses to put in case I add any. (10/15/20/25/30/45/60°)
and I still wonder if I will go for 3W. In fact It will be cheaper on the whole with 3W but less efficient.
I will go for 160W in case I am using either 1W or 3W. (grow room =0,5m2)
It seems 1W will put more lumen and a will more spread the ligth but less "penetration" (except if I am puting lenses)
I made my calculations and the price is 1euro per W (1,2$/W)
Without active dissipation I will probably add them When I will have money: I found 47m3/H at 3$ + 4$ for driver. which make 56$ of active dissipation to add for all my panels in a second time.

bye bye.
 
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speedyganga

Well-Known Member
thank you JMD :)
I have mixed feeling about these light:
-we don't know the bin, sometime cree with bad bin are not efficient at all...
-we can not choose the spectrum, I mean it will be completely white or blue/red or WW but not mixed. and if you put many of them the color will not mix unless you put it very far I think.
- the price is low for shure and it makes it very attractive so I will try to see some grow journal to see.
JMD I saw your journal, I gave the link to a friend that bought this light for vegging.
I was amazed by you result because If I remember well you use a light with 4R:1B and this ratio is a veg ratio, contrary to the 7:1 R/B for flowering.
But you had nice and sticky weed...:clap:

Would you put such narrow lens on it? I mean it's 10cree, if you use less than 30° It will give so much light to you girls, maybe even too much.
 
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speedyganga

Well-Known Member
You know, Spheda, XTE top bin are 3,25$ (not sure because I remember in euro) and you can choose you ratio, spread the light evrywhere and make a better cooling than 10led on a 5x5area.
With the light you show us, the only great thing is the price Which is 7$less, but if the bin are shitty, then it's maybe more expensive then cutter...

I saw yesterday the "Ganga 2" journal, what the fuck.... This guy is amazing. I am definitely going with my first idea of 1W panel.
But I will change the panel a bit : 20 led instead of 24 and I will try different spectrum "continuous" one (like his one), and more "efficient" one (like A51 and AT.)
I will make 8panels with 4 different spectrum at veg/stretch/flowering. and I will put clones under each panel in order to see what the best spectrum for each life part of our ladies.
I will hence have two panels with the same spectrum: 1 with lenses 1 without. and the 4 panel will have different lenses 25/45/60/90°

So at the end of the test I should be able to determine, an optimal spectrum for veg/stretch/flowering, and if It needs lenses or no and in what degree.

If I am reaching the gpw with one of the panel, I will do plenty of other for a 1m2 room... :)
And I might also do a little test on 3W vs 1W because the price is about the same, only the efficiency change and also the electricity bill.
 
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lax123

Well-Known Member
isnt lm/W or mW/W for a specific White or wavelength the only Thing u should look at? after that maybe $/W
 
Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
The higher the lm/W the less Red, though, right? Chromaticity changes per bin, I thought. I was always looking at the lowest lm/W thinking it was the "warmest."
 
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lax123

Well-Known Member
I think in your case u just should look at the type of led: if its 2600, 3000 or 3300K White; 7000K is cool White. There the lower the value the warmer it is/ more red. Then i would take e.g. those 2600K leds and compare them to other 2600Ks and then take the one with the highest lm Output. I think binning is seperation by wavelength and also by Quality like lm/W
 
JMD

JMD

Well-Known Member
lax123 said:
then JMD maybe this is interesting for you, i asked the seller about lenses for them he told me: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221278563827 idk know how good or bad those r, but its glass and says 4-90°, judging by its holes it looks like it could fit.
Click to expand...
I actually have one of those lying around somewhere.. I'll see if it fits on my 30W modules (they are same size as the 50W as far as I remember).

EDIT: Found it and tested. I fits over the LEDs just fine, but they block the soldering terminals.


speedyganga said:
thank you JMD :)
I have mixed feeling about these light:
-we don't know the bin, sometime cree with bad bin are not efficient at all...
-we can not choose the spectrum, I mean it will be completely white or blue/red or WW but not mixed. and if you put many of them the color will not mix unless you put it very far I think.
- the price is low for shure and it makes it very attractive so I will try to see some grow journal to see.
JMD I saw your journal, I gave the link to a friend that bought this light for vegging.
I was amazed by you result because If I remember well you use a light with 4R:1B and this ratio is a veg ratio, contrary to the 7:1 R/B for flowering.
But you had nice and sticky weed...:clap:

Would you put such narrow lens on it? I mean it's 10cree, if you use less than 30° It will give so much light to you girls, maybe even too much.
Click to expand...
I know the BIN for the warm white 50W modules! It's XPGWHT-L1-0000-00BE7. 313 lumen @ 1500mA. Could be better, but it could also be a lot worse.

I'm not 100% sure yet whether I go full warm white or if I'm going to add some red.
 
Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
lax123 said:
I think in your case u just should look at the type of led: if its 2600, 3000 or 3300K White; 7000K is cool White. There the lower the value the warmer it is/ more red. Then i would take e.g. those 2600K leds and compare them to other 2600Ks and then take the one with the highest lm Output. I think binning is seperation by wavelength and also by Quality like lm/W
Click to expand...
But then why do LED manufacturers include CIE ranges for each CCT and/or bin? And why does a 90CRI 3000k output less lumens per Watt than an 80CRI 3000k when they're the same manufacturer and series?

All I'm saying is I think it's a crap shoot. If it's a Cree XT-E 3000k it's a Cree XT-E 3000k. Whether or not yours get more lumens than mine doesn't necessarily mean its spectral quality is any better, or will grow bigger buds. That's at least how I see it. If you're going for most Red, then grab the bin that has the most. If you're going for highest lumens, grab the bin with most Green/Yellow, or whatever is brightest to the human eye.
 
JMD

JMD

Well-Known Member
lax123 said:
isnt lm/W or mW/W for a specific White or wavelength the only Thing u should look at? after that maybe $/W
Click to expand...
Lumen is a measure of how bright the light seems to the human eye! It alone is useless, but with the relative spectral power distribution chart you can get an idea of how well the LED suits your needs.
 
Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
JMD said:
Lumen is a measure of how bright the light seems to the human eye! It alone is useless, but with the relative spectral power distribution chart you can get an idea of how well the LED suits your needs.
Click to expand...
ansiwhite.jpg

But the spectral power distribution is different per bin, no?
 
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lax123

Well-Known Member
but with the relative spectral power distribution chart you can get an idea of how well the LED suits your Needs.
Click to expand...
Doesnt 2600K, 3000K, 3300K or 7000K make a Statement about that? I dont mean exactly, but within a good margin.
 
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speedyganga

Well-Known Member
I think you mix some stuffs Spheda. I don't pretend I am saying truth, but this is what I got from my lectures and understandings:

3000K is the color, it indicates either if he white is Warm or cold; from this you can get an idea of the quantity of red and of blue inside.
2700K has more red than 3000K which has less than 7000K.

2700 output less lumens not because it has more red, but because to transform a blue led (cold) into a warm white you loose lot of efficiency in terms of emitted photons.

Then if we say XTE 3000K bin T3
it's because when you choose a led, you choose the color and the efficiency. each led has a certain amount of photons it can emits so when they build 3hundred XTE 3000K they have for exemple 100 which are going to emits a few photons and 150 which are emitting lot's a photons etc...
at the end they put it in different "bin".
the better the bin is, the most photons you will get, hence the most efficient will be the led, so the most costly also... ;)
The bin are given in function of lumens (led are not for horticultural purpose generally).
Comparing two bin of led with the same spectrum, give you the more efficient because lumens are nothing else than a unity counting photons for human eyes. the more lumens, the more photons and the more efficient (when comparing same spectrum).

If you compare different spectrum with lumen, then it means nothing like JMD said. A blue can have as much lumen then a red... Lumen is how bright does this light appears to human eyes.

Hope it helped you.

@JMD: if I was going with only white I would do something like 7:1 WW:NW.
if I would go with red/ white I would go for 1WW:2CW: 2 red.
or also the ASTIR spectrums which seems working very well, but I think it's less efficient, you target less the photosynthetic pics, but you have a nice light which provide everything.

I will do a comparaison side by side of all this spectrum to see. I believe a lot in the WW:630 combos and the 1WW:2CW: 2 red

313 @1500mA. I guess XPG are 3,4V at 15000mA which make about 5W so you get 62lumen/W. you need twice less power using 1W led because they are 100 to 140lumen/W. and 1W led bridhgelux are less 0,5$ so less than 12,5$.
 
JMD

JMD

Well-Known Member
lax123 said:
Doesnt 2600K, 3000K, 3300K or 7000K make a Statement about that? I dont mean exactly, but within a good margin.
Click to expand...
Sadly no. Two 3200k LEDs can be miles from each other. Just look at different manufacturers.
 
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