America has become a FASCIST CORPORATOCRACY!!

Scuba said:

ok then what do you say made the STEEL BEAMS cut straight at an angle????? that's my question to you

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I adressed this in my previous post (sort of). Weird things happen when a building collapses. This could be due to any one of about a billion variables or series of variables. Too much is going on to say this caused that in many cases. Without actually witnessing these steel beams being "cut" one can only speculate. Let's remember that the truth lies almost 9 years in the past. A lot of time has passed and the "truth" has been clouded with myth and conspiracy theory and just plain old speculation, like we are doing right now. We may never have all of the answers and perhaps certain things were covered up or even mishandled but some of the b.s. floating out there as to what really happened is somewhat misguided, to say the least.

doc111 said:

I adressed this in my previous post (sort of). Weird things happen when a building collapses. This could be due to any one of about a billion variables or series of variables. Too much is going on to say this caused that in many cases. Without actually witnessing these steel beams being "cut" one can only speculate. Let's remember that the truth lies almost 9 years in the past. A lot of time has passed and the "truth" has been clouded with myth and conspiracy theory and just plain old speculation, like we are doing right now. We may never have all of the answers and perhaps certain things were covered up or even mishandled but some of the b.s. floating out there as to what really happened is somewhat misguided, to say the least.

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very true, i just never saw steel beams "melt" at a 45 degree angle on every single beam that made up the skeleton of the towers. like you said, it's all just speculation since it's been so long.

The US government didn't take those samples, some random people did. They took a grand total of 4 samples, with no chain of custody.

Have you not seen the pictures of people cutting the iron in the aftermath? Thats how they got those sharp angles.

9/11 didn't even happen it was all filmed in a greenroom in the desert

Wordz said:

9/11 didn't even happen it was all filmed in a greenroom in the desert

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hahaha XD that's awesome

Antidisestablishmentarian said:

The US government didn't take those samples, some random people did. They took a grand total of 4 samples, with no chain of custody.

Have you not seen the pictures of people cutting the iron in the aftermath? Thats how they got those sharp angles.

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thanks for finding those, that solves one thing XD

sharon1 said:

First of all, my question was: "how did the officer obtain his (Lance's) personal information"? If...and I have to emphasize the word IF...the officer gave anyone outside of law enforcement his personal information, there is a world of litagation that could result from such an act. Anyone who experiences harrassment such as this would prevail in a court of law....albiet after a lengthly, tiresome, and expensive trial.

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you sound like someone who's never dealt with authoritarian cops. i see cops ignore rights all the time. if a judge allows it, he allows it. sadly, regardless of a bill of rights, that is how this country has always worked. the constitution and every law ever passed is only as strong as justices allow it to be. kinda sucks sometimes.

friendlyfarmer said:

you sound like someone who's never dealt with authoritarian cops. i see cops ignore rights all the time. if a judge allows it, he allows it. sadly, regardless of a bill of rights, that is how this country has always worked. the constitution and every law ever passed is only as strong as justices allow it to be. kinda sucks sometimes.

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yep, most of main stream america are just brainwashed into believing that the "law" is something to be feared when it was made to protect "the people" that's what i think is criminal. They over use their power to smudge facts and create doubt. just deplorable

doc111 said:

Building collapses are very complicated and not very well understood by laymen. In addition to being a firefighter I was also trained extensively in building collapse. I've been to many, many collapses and had hundreds of hours of training in the classroom and live training exercises. We even had to have weeks of training in structural engineering in order to understand what causes buildings to collapse. It's not a simple matter of gravity or basic physics. Building collapses are almost always bizarre in nature and leave experts scratching their heads. For someone with zero training in structural engineering or building collapse to speculate on this matter is almost like someone who is not a doctor trying to explain how brain surgery is conducted!

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so the 1247 engineers and architects of AE911truth dont count? You think I just came up with these theories on my own?

In all of your building rescues how many were in excess of 40 stories?

NoDrama said:

so the 1247 engineers and architects of AE911truth dont count? You think I just came up with these theories on my own?

In all of your building rescues how many were in excess of 40 stories?

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good point, i doubt anyone has done exercises like that.

I think its funny people saying "how can you think its an inside job? There are people on the news who said its not." The 9/11 commission report is so sloppily put together, along with the public briefings surrounding the attacks, and your countries leaders reactions and itineraries are all way to convenient to have happened through 16 hijackers with box cutters infiltrating the US airport security, taking control of 4 planes and hitting 75% of their targets, all the while 6 of the alleged highjackers still being alive and the FBI never updating their search list.


And I am the crazy one.

Lets not even talk about the "plane" that supposedly hit the pentagon. Not a single flight control professional is confident enough to say they could complete a similar maneuver and yet a man with only the minimum flight hours needed accomplished a task so incredible the pentagon only released four frames of a single security cameras vantage on the incident, even though there were multiple tapes confiscated from hotels and shops nearby.

Peace

Mr.KushMan said:

I think its funny people saying "how can you think its an inside job? There are people on the news who said its not." The 9/11 commission report is so sloppily put together, along with the public briefings surrounding the attacks, and your countries leaders reactions and itineraries are all way to convenient to have happened through 16 hijackers with box cutters infiltrating the US airport security, taking control of 4 planes and hitting 75% of their targets, all the while 6 of the alleged highjackers still being alive and the FBI never updating their search list.


And I am the crazy one.

Lets not even talk about the "plane" that supposedly hit the pentagon. Not a single flight control professional is confident enough to say they could complete a similar maneuver and yet a man with only the minimum flight hours needed accomplished a task so incredible the pentagon only released four frames of a single security cameras vantage on the incident, even though there were multiple tapes confiscated from hotels and shops nearby.

Peace

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yep, Jason Bermas points out every detail on LOOSE CHANGE 9/11. He goes through ever thing, along with lining up witness testimonies along with his "theories". Which i find to be pretty sound.

NoDrama said:

so the 1247 engineers and architects of AE911truth dont count? You think I just came up with these theories on my own?

In all of your building rescues how many were in excess of 40 stories?

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Collapses? Not many. But I was at THIS one!

I don't speak for anyone else, just myself, so I don't know about 1247 engineers or any of that.

Your deflecting doc111. Your avoiding asking yourself serious questions, or not seriously answering them in order to remain intact with what you identify with yourself; ego. Just like your Edmund Burke quote says, its an enabling rationalization merely allowing evil to flourish more effectively by doing nothing.

Peace

Mr.KushMan said:

Your deflecting doc111. Your avoiding asking yourself serious questions, or not seriously answering them in order to remain intact with what you identify with yourself; ego. Just like your Edmund Burke quote says, its an enabling rationalization merely allowing evil to flourish more effectively by doing nothing.

Peace

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You're dead wrong. I have studied this shit 'til I'm blue in the face! No deflection there. I can't speak for the 1247 engineers and that is what I stated. I know nothing of this website and honestly, a lot of these conspiracy websites have very little credibility IMO. I don't have blinders on. I am a skeptic and like a good skeptic I fully admit I don't have all the answers. Maybe 9/11 was a conspiracy, maybe it wasn't, I honestly don't know. What my gut tells me, and it kept me alive for 8 years in the military and 15 years in the fire service, is that this is pretty much what the official story tells us; a horrible attack perpetrated by 19 young, muslim men. The conspiracy theory just doesn't hold up IMO and in my studies. I gave up trying to make sense of all of this a while ago because no matter what we learn, we will never know the entire truth. That's just the nature of these types of things.

I guess my question would then be. Why would you study this til your blue in the face if the official story is all you need? Must be something you think is being hidden from you to go to such great lengths to find something out.

one of the strangest facts that IMO support the conspiracy theory is the fact that the building has its basic supports in its core not in its outer shell, BUT the building that was hit from the outside fell first! the 2nd building was hit from the outside and the fireball was spectacular but did much less damage to the building's interior and support, most of the shock was external and even some stairways were open between upper and lower floors, but it looked like a bigger hollywood style explosion for the spectators outside so demolishing it first would make more sense for the public but not for structural engineers!

zem said:

one of the strangest facts that IMO support the conspiracy theory is the fact that the building has its basic supports in its core not in its outer shell, BUT the building that was hit from the outside fell first! the 2nd building was hit from the outside and the fireball was spectacular but did much less damage to the building's interior and support, most of the shock was external and even some stairways were open between upper and lower floors, but it looked like a bigger hollywood style explosion for the spectators outside so demolishing it first would make more sense for the public but not for structural engineers!

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there are also the "blast points" as the buildings begin to fall that are quite suspicious and make me think of professional detonations.

NoDrama said:

I guess my question would then be. Why would you study this til your blue in the face if the official story is all you need? Must be something you think is being hidden from you to go to such great lengths to find something out.

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You are picking my position apart. There is nothing to pick apart. I studied it because it was a pivotal moment in U.S. history and I was a fireman who went there after the attacks. I studied it because a lot of claims started being made almost immediately afterwards. Come on! How the fuck would anybody have this kind of info? If this was an inside job then where are the people coming forward. It would've taken a small army to pull of a conspiracy of this magnitude. The official story is way more believable to me then all of the ridiculously convoluted conspiracies. I am skeptical to a fault and I kept an open mind for a long long time. My mind still is open but it's gonna take overwhelming evidence to change my mind at this point. Where is the overwhelming evidence? I've been waiting for 9 years for it and I have yet to see it. Every conspiracy allegation I have seen or heard has easily been debunked IMO. Maybe I'm just gullible or stupid. Look, I respect your opinion on the matter although I don't agree with it. We probably aren't ever going to agree with each other on this one and that's ok in my book. I can still respect you and not agree with you on this one thing. If you do find that smoking gun, that overhwleming evidence, please let me know. I promise to keep an open mind but it has to be evidence, not theory.

Scuba said:

there are also the "blast points" as the buildings begin to fall that are quite suspicious and make me think of professional detonations.

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I've seen those videos and those aren't blast points, they are puffs of smoke pushing out because of the change in pressure inside the buildings (at least I think this is the same video). If it's not the one I'm thinking about could you post it up so I can see it please?